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Chevy Camaro vs... Comparison of Chevy Camaro versus its competition. *NO STREET RACING STORIES*

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Old 09-30-2008, 01:45 PM   #1
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Camaro's Direct Competitor = Mustang; Why not Challenger?

Is this something that goes back to the old days where Ford and GM competed against each other and MOPAR was different?

I stopped in to look at a 2009 Challenger yesterday just out of curiosity and got some good info from the dealer. They reckon the Camaro will be more expensive than the Chally. According to the sales guy that's how it's always been.

Looks like a loaded up R/T is gonna be about $36K. Loaded up SRT8 $43K.

I've never paid much attention to Dodge vehicles, but this new Challenger has my attention.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:49 PM   #2
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Is this something that goes back to the old days where Ford and GM competed against each other and MOPAR was different?

I stopped in to look at a 2009 Challenger yesterday just out of curiosity and got some good info from the dealer. They reckon the Camaro will be more expensive than the Chally. According to the sales guy that's how it's always been.

Looks like a loaded up R/T is gonna be about $36K. Loaded up SRT8 $43K.

I've never paid much attention to Dodge vehicles, but this new Challenger has my attention.
I'd put it more in line with the RT pricing, and by the way GM is going to do pricing differently this time around.

Ps. never ask a Dodge dealer what he thinks of pricing on an upcoming Chevy, of course he will say it's going to be more money he wants you to buy a dodge afterall. I don't think the seventies are a good referrence for pricing.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:50 PM   #3
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Ps. never ask a Dodge dealer what he thinks of pricing on an upcoming Chevy, of course he will say it's going to be more money he wants you to buy a dodge afterall. I don't think the seventies are a good referrence for pricing.
Right. I didn't ask for this guy's opinion, he offered it (good salesman). He was a tad bit older and obviously a gear head. I just didn't know what pricing was like in the past, but he claimed Camaros have always been more expensive than the competition.

I also just priced one out on kbb.com (shows invoice and msrp with options and everything). Seems the Dodge dealers aren't gonna make a whole lot on these cars (~7% if sold at msrp). Options are even less ($80 bucks profit on the $900 BA sound system). Kind of surprising.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:52 PM   #4
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The Chally forum is that way ---------------->

Just goofin. My question is did you think the Chally dealer would say the Camaro would be cheaper?!?!
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:53 PM   #5
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lol, well, you are paying for a nicer car

I don't know what the prices were back then, but they have nothing to do with it now. A fully loaded chally, w/extra tonnage package, is going to be expensive over our ss. Then again i don't know any thing of another higher up model of camaro that i am not going to mention, just to keep this thread on pace. It might be priced alot higher
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:55 PM   #6
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Just some info I found on the rivalry.....

The Camaro/Mustang rivalry had begun in 1967 with the introduction of the Camaro by Chevrolet. The Camaro was the largest threat to the lead Ford had in the "pony car" field, a niche of car manufacturing largely created by Ford with the introduction of the Mustang in mid-year 1964. Despite the lead Ford had in this field, the performance of the Mustang did not stack up to that of the Camaro. The small block and big block Chevrolet were more than a match for the 289 and 390 Fords placed in the Mustang. Ford, in an effort to burnish their "total performance" image introduced the 428 Cobra Jet in mid-year 1968, and in 1969, built one of Detroit's most interesting power plants, the Ford Boss 302 engine. The design was a composite engine using the "tunnel port" Windsor block and large Cleveland heads. The engine was fitted to Mustangs sold to the public in order to allow Ford to use the new engine to compete in the Trans-Am series. [1]

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Old 09-30-2008, 01:57 PM   #7
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lol at this whole thread. The reason is because the equivalent performance dodge doesnt have the sales numbers the chevy will. dodge is not planning on making near as many challengers as chevy will make camaros. and we all know that the mustang sells alot.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:02 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by shnomac77 View Post
The Chally forum is that way ---------------->

Just goofin. My question is did you think the Chally dealer would say the Camaro would be cheaper?!?!
No idea. What about in the 80s and 90s? Is he right that the Camaro was more?

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lol at this whole thread. The reason is because the equivalent performance dodge doesnt have the sales numbers the chevy will. dodge is not planning on making near as many challengers as chevy will make camaros. and we all know that the mustang sells alot.
I saw they plan to produce like 50K Challenger for 2009. So if GM makes 100K Camaros, yeah that's less. That should make the Camaro cheaper not more. I was mainly curious of the history of pricing. I searched google but gave up.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:02 PM   #9
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Is this something that goes back to the old days where Ford and GM competed against each other and MOPAR was different?

I stopped in to look at a 2009 Challenger yesterday just out of curiosity and got some good info from the dealer. They reckon the Camaro will be more expensive than the Chally. According to the sales guy that's how it's always been.

Looks like a loaded up R/T is gonna be about $36K. Loaded up SRT8 $43K.

I've never paid much attention to Dodge vehicles, but this new Challenger has my attention.

So we should get our pricing estimates from a Dodge dealer instead of Scott Settlemire and GM.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:03 PM   #10
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Dodge didnt really get into the "pony car race" until the early 70's...correct me if im wrong. That is prob the reason the Chevy Vs Ford pony car competion is the most contested. IMO
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:04 PM   #11
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No idea. What about in the 80s and 90s? Is he right that the Camaro was more?



I saw they plan to produce like 50K Challenger for 2009. So if GM makes 100K Camaros, yeah that's less. That should make the Camaro cheaper not more. I was mainly curious of the history of pricing. I searched google but gave up.
Did dodge make a good care in the 80's or 90's....
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:14 PM   #12
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lol at this whole thread. The reason is because the equivalent performance dodge doesnt have the sales numbers the chevy will. dodge is not planning on making near as many challengers as chevy will make camaros. and we all know that the mustang sells alot.
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No idea. What about in the 80s and 90s? Is he right that the Camaro was more?

I saw they plan to produce like 50K Challenger for 2009. So if GM makes 100K Camaros, yeah that's less. That should make the Camaro cheaper not more. I was mainly curious of the history of pricing. I searched google but gave up.
Actually the challenger is the replacement for the magnum on the manufacturing line. At maximum dodge could litterly make 300k challengers a year. Realistically that won't happen becuase they would have to drop the 300 and charger. They are all built on the same flex line that has a capacity of 300k. The last couple of years the magnum used about 70k of that annual total (leaving 230k for 300/charger). Plans are that if the challenger continues to sell well they may back the 300/charger down to 200 total with a max chally output of 100k/year.

BUT with the economy as it is chysler is just happy to have a car that people are willing to pay for. They will continue to watch sales numbers and adjust production accordingly. Just like GM they are not going to repeat mistakes.. they want to sell cars, not create a niche market or create nostalgia.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:15 PM   #13
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No idea. What about in the 80s and 90s? Is he right that the Camaro was more?
I don't remember Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth even having a car in the 80s-90s in the same class with the Mustang and Camaro. They were more focused on turning the company around and making it profitable again. If they did make something, it must not have made an impression because I'm drawing a blank. Unless the Charger came out in the very late 90s. I don't remember what year they brought that model back.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:17 PM   #14
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The only dodges I remember from 80's and 90's were turbo daytonas, stealths, and vipers.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:20 PM   #15
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but with thier lower MPG and lesser performance as well as the deficit they must overcome to sell 100k it isnt practical for them to think they'll sell that many.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:45 PM   #16
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I saw the Challenger SRT8 for the first time in Vegas a few days ago. My friends were like "Oh look isn't that a Camaro?" and I was like "omg omg omg where?", turned out it was a Challenger :( I didn't like it as much as in the pictures tbh.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:48 PM   #17
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Did dodge make a good care in the 80's or 90's....
Good point

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BUT with the economy as it is chysler is just happy to have a car that people are willing to pay for. They will continue to watch sales numbers and adjust production accordingly. Just like GM they are not going to repeat mistakes.. they want to sell cars, not create a niche market or create nostalgia.
The guy I talked to did mention the economy. He indicated that these types of cars are going to be harder to sell with the way the market is.
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Old 09-30-2008, 03:46 PM   #18
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The Camaro was created to compete with the Mustang in 1967. Thus the beginning of the "pony car" wars. Although of course any classic Mustang can be considered both a "pony car" and a "muscle car" but the Challenger was always considered more or a "muscle car".

Although I think the 5th Gen Camaro and born again Challenger will be more rivals in terms of what they offer compared to the Mustang.
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Old 09-30-2008, 03:51 PM   #19
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The Challenger is definitely direct competition. They weren't as popular (sales wise) in the early 70's as the Mustang and F body cars.

Let's face it, all these cars are cool, I want one of each. But, financially, I'll start with a Corvette or Camaro SS and go from there.

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Old 09-30-2008, 03:53 PM   #20
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I see the Challenger and even the Nissan Z as relatively direct competition. I suppose volume and history make the Mustang a bit more of 'the direct competitor' but all of the cars will be competing for similiar buyers.
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Old 09-30-2008, 04:07 PM   #21
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two very important factors play in this competition A performance B price, the challenger wins on performance over the mustang but completely fails on price. the camaro has to be competitive in price with the mustang and competitive in performance with the challenger.
thus the camaro will have to be performace bargain if it wishes to dominate the muscle car market. however GM is going to push the V6 camaro as their top seller where it will have really no competition performance wise and if can manage to start at 22k it will dominate this market for sure.
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Old 09-30-2008, 04:11 PM   #22
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I think the challenger will flop.
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Old 09-30-2008, 04:17 PM   #23
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We flipped a coin. It landed on heads, and we established that heads (Ford) would be the primary enemy.

Obviously, the Challenger gets tails because its fat butt weights too much to get heads.
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Old 09-30-2008, 04:22 PM   #24
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We flipped a coin. It landed on heads, and we established that heads (Ford) would be the primary enemy.

Obviously, the Challenger gets tails because its fat butt weights too much to get heads.
is this sig worthy? i think so
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Old 09-30-2008, 04:32 PM   #25
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I agree!
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