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Old 03-25-2010, 07:26 AM   #1
Darth Martel
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Is this a wise purchase?

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-XC0PD19....html?tp=35782

I'm wanting to upgrade my factory sound. I didn't get the Boston Acoustics upgrade so I just have the standard 6 speaker system. For my tastes, I enjoy loud, clear music. The factory sound just isn't loud enough for me so, I figure adding an amp would do the trick. I'm just worried about clipping and blowing the factory speakers. Eventually, I'll upgrade the factory speakers but, that will be down the line. I'm not sure I'll ever get a sub enclosure so, I plan on using this amp for the front and rear speakers. Most of what I've read on these forums suggest people are only using an amp for the fronts and not the rears. What's the reasoning for this? I would think the rears would benefit from some extra power as well as the fronts. I appreciate any feedback I can get. thanks

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Old 03-25-2010, 09:56 AM   #2
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that is a decent amp but a just over 1 1/2 feet long and almost a foot wide that is huge. check this.....

http://www.arcaudio.com/productdescr...es/xxd4080.asp
this is a 4 channel amp with a small foot print. little over 300.00 for the amp but good power and easyier to hide. (you could actually probably install this in the same location as the factory put the BA Amp. or just tuck up under the rear package tray. they also make a 5ch versionof this that adds in the sub channel if you want a subwoofer (definately will improve the sound)
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:00 AM   #3
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I would suggest you role over to Sound Solutions Audio and check things out, specifically Sundown Audio. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Or check out Subthump and what Steve sells.

Both have excellent products and even better customer service.
Cheers
K
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:50 PM   #4
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No way man do not get that amplifier, rockford fosgate 4 channell amplifier is better quality and cheaper, and if you have the bone stock speakers, i wouldnt reccomend putting an amplifier to them, I just replaced mine I will put a picture up of them, there horrendously cheap.
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:52 PM   #5
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This is the best option you will find, I swear on it, will never over heat, a little big, but I have two of these size amps on the back of my seat, and its perfect, and its only 200$.
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/produ...en_US&p_status=
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Old 03-25-2010, 01:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Martel View Post
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-XC0PD19....html?tp=35782

I'm wanting to upgrade my factory sound. I didn't get the Boston Acoustics upgrade so I just have the standard 6 speaker system. For my tastes, I enjoy loud, clear music. The factory sound just isn't loud enough for me so, I figure adding an amp would do the trick. I'm just worried about clipping and blowing the factory speakers. Eventually, I'll upgrade the factory speakers but, that will be down the line. I'm not sure I'll ever get a sub enclosure so, I plan on using this amp for the front and rear speakers. Most of what I've read on these forums suggest people are only using an amp for the fronts and not the rears. What's the reasoning for this? I would think the rears would benefit from some extra power as well as the fronts. I appreciate any feedback I can get. thanks

Darth
If you're going to add an amp to the factory non-BA speakers, you better make sure you crank the gain way down regardless of what amp you go with.

I can't imagine the factory paper cone speakers are designed to take much more power than they're currently receiving.
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Old 03-25-2010, 03:36 PM   #7
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let's clear one small thing up.... yes factory speakers suck.... but there is nothign wrong with paper cones. most higher end speakers are made of some type of paper cone. the reason being is they are more transient and musical than any plastic cone will ever hope to be. sorry for the small rant just wanted to make that clear. Sorry back to topic.
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Old 03-25-2010, 03:54 PM   #8
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The stock non BA speakers are the cheapest stock stock speakers i've ever seen, but I do agree to turn the gain down alot.
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Old 03-25-2010, 04:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAS View Post
that is a decent amp but a just over 1 1/2 feet long and almost a foot wide that is huge. check this.....

http://www.arcaudio.com/productdescr...es/xxd4080.asp
this is a 4 channel amp with a small foot print. little over 300.00 for the amp but good power and easyier to hide. (you could actually probably install this in the same location as the factory put the BA Amp. or just tuck up under the rear package tray. they also make a 5ch versionof this that adds in the sub channel if you want a subwoofer (definately will improve the sound)
For the size, and cost, mixed with it's ratings, that's a good buy right there. And I'd jump all over that before any Rockford Fosgate junk. Sorry, but RF sold out long ago, and their products and quality has suffered for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moriartii View Post
I would suggest you role over to Sound Solutions Audio and check things out, specifically Sundown Audio. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Or check out Subthump and what Steve sells.

Both have excellent products and even better customer service.
Cheers
K
Sadly, Sundown doesn't offer anything four channel. SSA does carry Incriminator Audio, which has a 4 channel, but cost and size will go to the ArcAudio listed above. Of course, SSA does offer one seriously nice 6 channel, for about twice the price of that ArcAudio 4, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAS View Post
let's clear one small thing up.... yes factory speakers suck.... but there is nothign wrong with paper cones. most higher end speakers are made of some type of paper cone. the reason being is they are more transient and musical than any plastic cone will ever hope to be. sorry for the small rant just wanted to make that clear. Sorry back to topic.

To add to this, factory speakers can handle more then you think. If the signal is clean, and crossedover properly, factory speakers can indeed sound good and handle a bit of power. Adding a true, standalone aftermarket amp can indeed liven up a factory speaker, until one can change them out if wanted.
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Old 03-25-2010, 04:40 PM   #10
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There are so many ways to do this, but if i were you i would upgrade the speakers first. Or if you dont and add a amp turn the gain all the way down either way they are going to sound like crap with a amp on them.

IMO change out the speakers first, then access if you want to add more power
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Old 03-25-2010, 04:42 PM   #11
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amp power is just going to make the speakers weaker and more poping. Everyone has their favorite brand, mine is Kicker, yet someone else like sony, eclipse, ect.. if you not wanting to spend alot of money do some research. just dont think buying a amp is going to make it soud better because its not
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Old 03-25-2010, 04:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montej23 View Post
There are so many ways to do this, but if i were you i would upgrade the speakers first. Or if you dont and add a amp turn the gain all the way down either way they are going to sound like crap with a amp on them.

IMO change out the speakers first, then access if you want to add more power
Not trying to be an ass, but that's wrong. The speakers are reproducing the signal given to them. If the signal is clipped, or distorted, then that's what the speaker will reproduce. Speakers really only start sounding bad under a few conditions, too much power being applied causing the speaker to overexort, meaning reaching mechanical limits, and being crossed over wrong, thus making the speaker reproduce a signal that it's not designed to handle, ie; a 4" cone trying to drop a 20hz note. If it doens't have the displacment capability, it'll sound bad trying to do it.

Add an aftermarket amp, set your crossovers right, and those factory speakers will sound night and day different from the factory setup. Add a sub to take care of the lowend, and one will be set. Seriously, I've driven factory speakers with well over 75wrms, no issues, good sound, all due to a quality amp and proper settings. Set them wrong, and you'll be replacing them before you know it.
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Old 03-25-2010, 04:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montej23 View Post
amp power is just going to make the speakers weaker and more poping. Everyone has their favorite brand, mine is Kicker, yet someone else like sony, eclipse, ect.. if you not wanting to spend alot of money do some research. just dont think buying a amp is going to make it soud better because its not
Wow, you really don't know anything about a proper setup do you?

Please don't listen to this fellow, lol. IAS posted a great product, go that route! Avoid Polk Audio like you would montej23 car audio advice, like the plague
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Old 03-25-2010, 04:52 PM   #14
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I know what i am talking about i have been installing systems for a while, but what do i know ive done professional installs for kicker so take my advise or not. I don't care just hate to see people lead the wrong direction mrray13
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Old 03-25-2010, 04:52 PM   #15
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Actually if you really wanted to do it right you would start out with the deck!!!
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
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I know what i am talking about i have been installing systems for a while, but what do i know ive done professional installs for kicker so take my advise or not. I don't care just hate to see people lead the wrong direction mrray13
Yep, I'm sure you are the only one who has done professional installs, right? I've been in that same field for many years myself, just recently getting away from it. I've installed far more then just Kicker, even though I worked for a Kicker dealer. And??

I'll leave this discussion at that. Although, starting with a good deck, is a great starting point. Yet, with dash kits running $300 for this car, a good amp is the next best thing.
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:18 PM   #17
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Correct me if I am wrong but Sundown Audio does have the SAX-50.4 and the SAX 100.4D 4/3/2 Channel Bridgeable Class-AB Amplifiers.

Although the 50.4 may be discontinued according to the HTML tag???
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:21 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Moriartii View Post
Correct me if I am wrong but Sundown Audio does have the SAX-50.4 and the SAX 100.4D 4/3/2 Channel Bridgeable Class-AB Amplifiers.

Although the 50.4 may be discontinued according to the HTML tag???
Cheers
K
Oops, lol. My bad. I just glanced over the list, didn't spy the 100.4. I do believe the 50.4 is gone too, but I'll check and make sure, lol Good catch!! Be right back!


Okay, just got back...the 50.4 is discontinued, although one might still grab one from Jacob. The 100.4 is current in the lineup, not listed at the SSA store. Which is where I went originally, and why I did not see it or the 50.4.

MSRP on the SAX 100.4 is $549, and it's a big amp, coming in a 10" x 2" x 19". The 50.4 coming in at 10" x 2" x 12.25", and if you can find it, an MSRP around $350. The ARC IAS posted above is less power then the 100.4, more then 50.4 and is less money then both. I'm sure SSA would get the price down comparable to the ARC, and I'll wager the SunDowns are both underrated, but the ARC still has the smaller footprint, especially compared to the 100.4.
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:24 PM   #19
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Told ya not to send me over there!
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:31 PM   #20
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Back on topic tho, looking at the Sundown amp and the Arc amp:
Sundown is AB whereas Arc is a class D - depending on how you drive it the D may be a tad better.
Also it look like depending on how they actually rate their wrms with Arc they are pretty close.

Personally I am leaning more toward Sundown just because of my first hand experience with the customer service, which means a great deal to me. I havent used my amp yet so that remains to be seen.

I would tho stear way from RF and Polk.
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:52 PM   #21
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Class D loses any real efficiency advantage as the volume knob goes up. It really only matters in multi amp setups where any current that can be saved, needs to be.

Class A/B are considered cleaner then their D counterparts, this is reflected in the Sundown 100.4 having .05% THD and a S/N ration >90db vs the ARCs .07% THD and >79db S/N ratio. That said, this depends on where the amps were tested at. If both were tested at, or near, full power, then the Sundown, with it's A/B technology is clearly the cleaner amp. Again, assuming a same power level test was done.


Hope that helps some.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:32 PM   #22
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hmmmm lots of food for thought. sounds like I need to research amps and speakers
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Old 03-26-2010, 08:10 PM   #23
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Personally I would NEVER amp factory speakers unless you want to replace them with in a couple weeks and maby fry the amp in the process.

I would first upgrade the speakers then if you wanted put an amp on them.

and I would do JL Audio, Focal, or Audson. Personally I am doing JL Audio c5 in my car. I love the way they sound and how loud and clear they can get, I am putting them on the JL xd400/4 the amp is only about 6 inches long and tall and about 2inches deep. I love the amps have installed many of them in the past month and everyone love them.
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Old 03-26-2010, 08:20 PM   #24
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Changing speakers WILL have the most significant noticable change in your audio system.

then Amps then head unit.
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Old 03-26-2010, 08:24 PM   #25
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Not trying to be an ass, but that's wrong. The speakers are reproducing the signal given to them. If the signal is clipped, or distorted, then that's what the speaker will reproduce. Speakers really only start sounding bad under a few conditions, too much power being applied causing the speaker to overexort, meaning reaching mechanical limits, and being crossed over wrong, thus making the speaker reproduce a signal that it's not designed to handle, ie; a 4" cone trying to drop a 20hz note. If it doens't have the displacment capability, it'll sound bad trying to do it.

Add an aftermarket amp, set your crossovers right, and those factory speakers will sound night and day different from the factory setup. Add a sub to take care of the lowend, and one will be set. Seriously, I've driven factory speakers with well over 75wrms, no issues, good sound, all due to a quality amp and proper settings. Set them wrong, and you'll be replacing them before you know it.

PLEASE dont rag on people if what you are saying is not correct your self.
First, Factory speaker is ment to run off the the factory radio with no other amplification.
The Factory radio puts out about 7 watts rms power per channel and the factory speakers from testing my speaker out of my car can handle MAX 13 watts of power at 150hz before they go to max excursion and starting to clip.
SO if you were going to add on an after market amp the puts out 300/4 so 75 watts per channel, there is NO way that you could tune the amp low enough NOT to blow the speakers, and if your speaker blows closed it will fry your amp that you just put in there.
And think about it if your amp is telling the speaker to throw the cone 1/2" out and the speaker can not do that the speaker sits at max excursion and heats up, when that keeps happening that is what causes a speaker to blow from over driving it.
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