Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Apex Paul
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics

Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics Camaro ZL1 specific topics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-25-2010, 05:53 PM   #1
sen10l
 
Drives: In Transit
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: North Pole
Posts: 334
GM: Arguments for a Spring 2011 Z/28 release!

I'll split my argument into 3 parts: observations on the 2010 Camaro sales success, arguments for a spring/summer 2011 Z/28 release and arguments against a fall/winter 2011 Z/28 release.


2010 Camaro Sales Success (Spring 2009)
* Initial sales of the 2010 were driven by fans who had waited many years for the resurrection of the Camaro, and who loved the movie
* Studies into human behaviour (eg. "Emulation learning") show that observation of behaviours that create positive results causes that behaviour to be reproduced by others. This is clearly demonstrated in the sales success of the 2010 Camaro. Call it the "keeping up with Joneses" phenomena. People saw the Camaro on the roads in the summer of 2009, and that enticed people to buy the Camaro. Seeing the Camaro on the road produces emulative behaviour and is a greater motivator for sales than an advertisement.
* through emulative learning and the fresh influence of the Transformers movie, historically non-Camaro fans continued the sales momentum
* Winter months of 2009/2010 saw the sales of the Camaro to slow down, but not die down completely due to the fulfilling of the backlog of orders.
* Spring/Summer 2010 will see a significant number of Camaros on the road which will continue the momentum going forward. This will be the time when most of the general public (outside of fans) will start buying the Camaro. This is because of the combination of the economy, readying their finances after being exposed to the Camaro in 2009, and the continual cycle of exposure reproducing delayed behaviours which perpetuates the momentum.

Arguments against a Fall/Winter 2011 Z/28 Release
* although initial sales will be borne by the fans, most fans across N.America will not be driving on the roads. This creates very little visibility of the Z/28 to the general public, and subsequently little excitement for non-fans.
* in Spring/Summer 2012, we will see greater public knowledge of the cars but there will be a delay in actual purchases by the general public due to financial planning and circumstances (after developing emulative tendencies, people take some time before actually manifesting behaviour).
* in Winter 2012, there will be virtually no sales as the slack will neither be picked up by the general public nor fans who have already purchased their Z/28.
* In Spring/Summer 2013, this will be the time that most of the general public will start to purchase the Z/28, due to the delayed behaviours explained above.

Arguments for a Spring/Summer 2011 Z/28 Release
* First the sales success of the Z/28 will likely follow the same pattern as the 2010 Camaro
* Sales of the Z/28 will be very strong initially as rabid fans gobble up every Z/28 produced
* Subsequently, every Z/28 produced will be seen driven on the roads creating great public awareness and emulative behavioural response
* In Winter 2011, the backlog of orders built up over Summer will be reduced as the people waiting for the Z/28 gets the cars they ordered
* by Spring 2012, there will be a large number of Z/28s on the road as people who were waiting to drive their Z/28s purchased during winter and 2011 purchasers get out on the road. This will continue the consistent sales momentum going forward.

(and before a Camaro5 forum member argues with me - please note that I am trying to persuade GM to release it earlier if it were possible, so unless you actually want to wait longer or don't even care for the Z/28, kindly do NOT try to derail my effort. I would however appreciate support in my efforts, so as to keep this topic alive in the hopes that someone in GM with decision making ability will hear of it. I am also aware that there may be practical constraints that may prevent a Spring 2011 release, but that is outside the scope of this discussion (what we cannot change, we cannot change, therefore discussion is pointless but since we don't know whether the constraint exists, let us not mention a moot point). Thanks)
__________________

Last edited by sen10l; 03-25-2010 at 06:15 PM.
sen10l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 06:01 PM   #2
Number 3
Hail to the King baby!
 
Number 3's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 ATS 2.0T & '14 Chevrolet SS
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,270
You make a good case, but it is clearly over what you are hoping to happen.

But what would your plan look like when you throw in the fact that GM will be launching the Camaro Convertible in the Spring of 2011?

So Chevy will be leveraging the convertible and spending huge efforts to get it launched with outstanding quality. So many of the points you make about a car that is not even announced as existing apply to the convertible that is announced and will launch in the spring of 2011.
__________________
"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley Link to Every Camaro photo I've taken in Hi-Resolution
Number 3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 06:14 PM   #3
sen10l
 
Drives: In Transit
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: North Pole
Posts: 334
Speaking only for myself, a late 2011 release will push me to buy in Spring 2012. There's no point me purchasing a car in winter when I'm not going to drive it in winter. MOST of N.America's population (excluding Mexico of course) is in the same weather situation as me. Most people would do what I would do and delay until Spring 2012 - why pay insurance and monthly payments for a car that will be driven maybe a handful of days during winter, if at all?

I for one hate the idea of waiting one year, let alone 2 years.

My arguments are for GM, assuming they have the ability to release in Spring 2011. Obviously they have the final say in the matter, but it helps to give them more reasons to release in Spring 2011 if that were possible.

A Spring 2011 release for both the Z/28 and convertible would not be unreasonable given that the demographics of market do not overlap.
__________________

Last edited by sen10l; 03-25-2010 at 06:26 PM.
sen10l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 06:28 PM   #4
n!ght r!der
That Guy
 
n!ght r!der's Avatar
 
Drives: really good
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 861
The sooner, the better..

but the 45th anniversary is in 2012, so that might have something to do with the release date. or not
n!ght r!der is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 06:42 PM   #5
sen10l
 
Drives: In Transit
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: North Pole
Posts: 334
Well a 2012 model would be released in 2011. The Camaro was first released in Sep 1966 as a 1967 model. Therefore +45 = 2012 model released in 2011. I guess I could live with a September 2011 release, but it would be a royal pain in the ass missing yet another summer and as I have argued would NOT be the best situation for sales.
__________________
sen10l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 06:49 PM   #6
Scrappy Doo


 
Scrappy Doo's Avatar
 
Drives: Taylor Made SLDR
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: W8n 4 Snow, Minnesota
Posts: 4,686
Best of luck to you.





















And to us all.
Scrappy Doo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 06:54 PM   #7
sen10l
 
Drives: In Transit
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: North Pole
Posts: 334
What makes me nervous is that we seem to have a date for the Convertible release, but nothing for the Z/28. That's not a good sign!

__________________
sen10l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 09:24 PM   #8
boxmonkeyracing
juggernaut
 
boxmonkeyracing's Avatar
 
Drives: VRSCF, 2011 SS vert
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: kenly, nc
Posts: 3,345
Send a message via AIM to boxmonkeyracing Send a message via Yahoo to boxmonkeyracing
Quote:
Originally Posted by sen10l View Post
Well a 2012 model would be released in 2011. The Camaro was first released in Sep 1966 as a 1967 model. Therefore +45 = 2012 model released in 2011. I guess I could live with a September 2011 release, but it would be a royal pain in the ass missing yet another summer and as I have argued would NOT be the best situation for sales.
Hate to say this. Your arguments are based on what YOU would do. But us southern boys like myself would buy during the winter. We would buy first drum up sales until you yanks can get out and enjoy a car like the Z.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
boxmonkeyracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 09:34 PM   #9
djsnoflake
Faith Keeper
 
djsnoflake's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Silverado LTZ, 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 2,791
Build it when it's ready, GM.

But we all know you will do that anyways
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
.........we are far from finished.................
djsnoflake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 09:35 PM   #10
djsnoflake
Faith Keeper
 
djsnoflake's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Silverado LTZ, 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 2,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by sen10l View Post
What makes me nervous is that we seem to have a date for the Convertible release, but nothing for the Z/28. That's not a good sign!

That's cause the convertible is confirmed. The Z is still a rumor.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
.........we are far from finished.................
djsnoflake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 10:03 PM   #11
Bubba_Bee
 
Bubba_Bee's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Transformers
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsnoflake View Post
That's cause the convertible is confirmed. The Z is still a rumor.
I'm surprised that more people aren't more excited about the convertible! Although I'll buy a Z28 when they bring back the T-Tops!!!
Bubba_Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 10:06 PM   #12
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 13,046
You are tenacious, lol; I like that

I totally support a '12 model year for reintroducing Z28. It seems a release in the Spring/Summer would conform to what we've been seeing up to now, so I don't see why that would be a problem.

I support ya'
__________________
"...What IS true: We anticipated that this would happen - we are never finished - and yes, Ford DOES deserve to win now and then. To think that GM can come out with a car to make ford throw in the towel is simply foolhardy..." - fbodfather
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2010, 10:09 PM   #13
sen10l
 
Drives: In Transit
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: North Pole
Posts: 334
The problem would be Mr Murphy.
__________________
sen10l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2010, 01:17 AM   #14
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 22,196
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
You never seem to acknowledge the fact that the Z28 had been delayed for a good many months and GM is trying very hard to get it out soon. No amount hoping can change that.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
don't believe a thing you read about the next gen Camaro -- as history has proven time and time again:

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE PRODUCT PLANS PERIOD FbodFather
__________________

Camaro5 Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2010, 05:53 AM   #15
Apex Motorsports

 
Apex Motorsports's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 23,521
Lol, its just the way the industry works. The 2010 was released early in the year because it was a brand new model, which is also normal in the auto industry. Now they are going to release variations of the vehicle one at a time and use them to maintain excitement about the brand over a long period of time. Like I've said before, its all about sales momentum. I know it may suck for you personally but its just the way it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex Chase View Post
The point of a fall release is because they expect the hardcore enthusiasts to snap up the early production units. They want those buyers taken care of early so that when spring rolls in and the uninitiated start thinking, "Man, a new sports car would be nice!" there will be Z28s on the showroom. They are more concerned about sales momentum than they are about what makes sense for you personally. GM has been marketing cars for a long time, release dates aren't pulled out of a hat.
__________________
Apex Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2010, 01:06 PM   #16
sen10l
 
Drives: In Transit
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: North Pole
Posts: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
You never seem to acknowledge the fact that the Z28 had been delayed for a good many months and GM is trying very hard to get it out soon. No amount hoping can change that.
I can't acknowledge what I don't know. As far as I know, in order to be "delayed" it needs an announced release date. Since none has been given, then how can it really be "delayed"?
__________________
sen10l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2010, 01:44 PM   #17
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 22,196
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by sen10l View Post
I can't acknowledge what I don't know. As far as I know, in order to be "delayed" it needs an announced release date. Since none has been given, then how can it really be "delayed"?
I suppose you have me on a technicallity. But going back 2 years ago, the reports and indications pointed to the regular models coming out in early 2009, the convertibles about a year after that, and the Z28 about a year after that. Leading up to the bankruptcy, we were told that the Z28 project had been cancelled or at the very least put on hold. It was some time until we heard any firm reports that it was back.

And something can indeed be delayed without a fixed time being announced. For example, I meant to write this post half an hour ago, but I got delayed when I had my lunch. If I hadn't said anything, you would never have known. But that would not change the fact that it was delayed. Its like the ancient question, "If a tree falls in the woods, and no one is around, does it make a sound?" Yes, absolutely it does. You just didn't hear it.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
don't believe a thing you read about the next gen Camaro -- as history has proven time and time again:

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE PRODUCT PLANS PERIOD FbodFather
__________________

Camaro5 Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2010, 02:03 PM   #18
ViperTomcat
Banned
 
Drives: 2011 Avenger Heat
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,702
If the Z28 is actually going to be released, I would expect it in early 2012, one year after the convertible. It wouldnt be wise for GM to flood the market with two new submodels of Camaro within two months.

Then again..people who have been waiting for the 'vert wont be tempted into the Z28 and vice versa. That being said, with two new models of Camaro going down the line, the availability of the V6 and SS's will drop slightly due to less production time.
ViperTomcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 03:09 AM   #19
sen10l
 
Drives: In Transit
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: North Pole
Posts: 334
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
I suppose you have me on a technicallity. But going back 2 years ago, the reports and indications pointed to the regular models coming out in early 2009, the convertibles about a year after that, and the Z28 about a year after that. Leading up to the bankruptcy, we were told that the Z28 project had been cancelled or at the very least put on hold. It was some time until we heard any firm reports that it was back.

And something can indeed be delayed without a fixed time being announced. For example, I meant to write this post half an hour ago, but I got delayed when I had my lunch. If I hadn't said anything, you would never have known. But that would not change the fact that it was delayed. Its like the ancient question, "If a tree falls in the woods, and no one is around, does it make a sound?" Yes, absolutely it does. You just didn't hear it.
What I can't change, I can't change. But if I can change it, then this is my attempt to do so. That's the way I see it.
__________________
sen10l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 01:46 PM   #20
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 22,196
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by sen10l View Post
What I can't change, I can't change. But if I can change it, then this is my attempt to do so. That's the way I see it.
I hope you don't feel I'm hounding you on this one, thats not my intention. I just get frustrated when I see threads based on unrealistic expectations. And it doesn't matter if its release date, pricing, or content of the Z28. We would all absolutely love it if GM released a $40,000 LS9 powered Z28 next spring. But it isn't going to happen, no matter how much we would like it to.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
don't believe a thing you read about the next gen Camaro -- as history has proven time and time again:

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE PRODUCT PLANS PERIOD FbodFather
__________________

Camaro5 Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2010, 08:25 PM   #21
sen10l
 
Drives: In Transit
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: North Pole
Posts: 334
They're not expectations, they're requests and arguments. I don't know why people can't see the difference. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for something. At the very least they might say "no", but maybe, just maybe they might say yes. At least I asked and made my wishes known.

The little note I put at the end of my OP was intended precisely for people who don't understand this basic concept of asking. I'd rather ask and be shot down (by GM), than NOT ask and then find out much later that GM did something because they weren't asked to do something else. Asking cost me nothing, but I have a chance of gaining something. What do you gain by trying to stop me from asking, except annoy me by trying to shut me up?

ps. I don't know why you personally are frustrated by my requests. Think about it. I'm not even asking you!

pps. early in my career, a bunch of us consultants were given the opportunity to work permanent full-time for the company. One of my colleagues requested what we thought was an outlandish salary amount. We thought he had some chutzpah. Later in my career I myself began to make "outlandish" rate requests and now I'm at the top of the rate scale. All it took was a little chutzpah, and I've applied that principle in every aspect of life now.
__________________
sen10l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 08:40 PM   #22
SMN2011Z28
Always a work in progress
 
SMN2011Z28's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 RRM SS RS 1LE
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SOCAL- San Diego (PB)
Posts: 172
As a Z28 Hopeful I think the release is going to be related to the success of the 2011 5.0 Mustang and the 6.4Ltr Challenger. Once these two new powerplants debut, GM can impact the market when it counts. The convertible will be a way to re-invigorate the customer base for the "average" car buyer then the Z28 will follow several months later to make horsepower fanatics that may not be looking at Camaro stay tuned and take another look before going elsewhere.

I deploy late this year so my only hope is that it comes out at a time that will allow me to get an early order in, but I have a feeling I'll be waiting no matter what.

It's all speculation and this is my .02
SMN2011Z28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2011, 11:49 AM   #23
Z Boss
Camaro Addiction
 
Z Boss's Avatar
 
Drives: 68SS,81Z28,87IROC,97Z28SS, '12ZL1
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 224
On a much simplier level, GM sells cars to make $$. You can't sell what you don't produce. Model years, seasonal releases, behavorial analysis, etc. don't make much difference if superior products are delivered. I'm waiting for a ZL1 but if an LS9 Z28 for $40K is available, I would buy both cars. Winter, spring, fall, 2011, 2012 or 2013 - makes no difference. I live in Louisiana but I have lived in the NE and if it was winter, I'd just tinker with the new car in the garage until spring. GM must deliver - that's what matters. Nice behavioral analysis though...
Z Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2011, 12:32 PM   #24
Blackdevil77
 
Drives: 2008 Pontiac G8 GT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 406
Personally, I don't care what the season is. If I like the car and have the money for it, I'm gonna buy it. If I have to garage it for a few months, so be it. At least it's MINE! Gas prices have more of an influence on buyers I believe rather then season. And right now, gas SUCKS!!! But I love my performance cars too much not to have one
Blackdevil77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2011, 01:07 PM   #25
lbls1

 
lbls1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2002 Camaro SS SOM; 2009 Malibu LT
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 1,903
Old thread. We may eventually see a z28 but its more like a spring of '12 or '13 as a realistic goal.
__________________
'02 CAMARO SS SOM; 5.7L LS1/FLS6B
'08 TBSS AWD Black Granite Metallic
'09 Malibu LT Dark Gray Metallic

'14 CAMARO ZL1 Blue Ray Metallic
lbls1 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Think about this and the Z28 5th gen 13F20 Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 41 09-04-2010 01:59 AM
2011 Release and new options? zzibradleyizz 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 40 02-26-2010 09:11 PM
2011 Release Date ? 2011hereicome 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 6 10-30-2009 01:23 PM
Eibach V8 Lowering Spring Release NickB Suspension / Chassis / Brakes 0 08-14-2009 11:38 AM
Anyone else hear this....2011 Release Date!! BRNLKY2 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 18 10-09-2007 12:47 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.