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Old 03-29-2010, 07:29 PM   #1
4xchamp
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LS3 cam question

Today I called two known LS engine tuners/builders to order a cam kit and cai . I have built some marine race big blocks over the years including high reving Big Chiefs . I'm not an expert but do have some knowledge .
The first salesman I speak to is clueless and refers me to a guy in New Jersey ( 1500 miles from his location ) for info on his product .
No problem I go to next on the list , they show a dyno sheet for my prefered cam , 560 crank hp , wow ! I ask what mods the dyno motor had such as heads ? Intake ? This seller was also clueless . Needless to say I didn't buy .
The cams I'm looking at are 225/230ish 610ish one was 112 the other 115 .
I'm looking for a cam with some rumble and good driveability as this is my stock exhaust daily driver .
I'd like to know approximately what rwhp/tq I will gain with a given cam only and what to expect for driveability . If these guys don't know who does , they both claim to have done all sorts of testing , so where are the results ? Maybe I just got the wrong guy on the phone but I don't want to be a ginuea pig .
If I sold my services like these guys I'd be on welfare . I know they must deal with tire kickers all day but occasionaly put someone on the phone that knows .
Any proven suggestions for a stock , cai only , will tune for the cam LS3? I've got baseline dyno #s .
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:04 PM   #2
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Checkout our site @ www.texas-speed.com

we have several engine dyno tested & developed camshafts that can help you to get some proven hp & keep good piston to valve clearance compared to some of the camshafts out there!
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Old 03-29-2010, 09:31 PM   #3
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This is the cam i am looking into from GM performance https://store.gmperformanceparts.com...umber=88958733
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Old 03-31-2010, 07:11 PM   #4
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Any thoughts on this one ? Cam only and cai .
224/242 .609/.612 117 LC
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Old 03-31-2010, 07:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4xchamp View Post
Any thoughts on this one ? Cam only and cai .
224/242 .609/.612 117 LC
That appears to be something very very similar to a cam used often by a sister shop here in Dallas near us. "Quality Motorsports"

Their QM550 is very very close to that and makes fantastic power in LS3's and LS7's.

Drives like stock, has a nice idle. Theirs is a tick tighter LSA which makes for more over lap and better N/A power. The 117 will make great N/A power and be a power adder/boost cam monster.

KEEP LOOKING. You are in the right direction. LPE and TXSpeed have some fantastic options. I have seen a few custom Speced Trevor cams (TxSpeed Cam Guru) do some AMAZING things. Give him a call. You can't go wrong with his advice.
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Old 03-31-2010, 07:42 PM   #6
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Why don't you try putting headers and a tune on the car first? You will maintain better driveability and might suffice what power levels you are looking for. There are plenty of ls3 camaros making over 400 rwhp with just bolt ons
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Old 03-31-2010, 07:59 PM   #7
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Why don't you try putting headers and a tune on the car first? You will maintain better driveability and might suffice what power levels you are looking for. There are plenty of ls3 camaros making over 400 rwhp with just bolt ons
I believe the cam swap will gain more power than headers , for less money and not visible , even my cai is stealth .
After the cam I want to try gears .
Here is my baseline on a Mustang , the higher #s were generated with the airbox open , just the air filter taped to housing
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by freemaSSon View Post
That appears to be something very very similar to a cam used often by a sister shop here in Dallas near us. "Quality Motorsports"

Their QM550 is very very close to that and makes fantastic power in LS3's and LS7's.

Drives like stock, has a nice idle. Theirs is a tick tighter LSA which makes for more over lap and better N/A power. The 117 will make great N/A power and be a power adder/boost cam monster.

KEEP LOOKING. You are in the right direction. LPE and TXSpeed have some fantastic options. I have seen a few custom Speced Trevor cams (TxSpeed Cam Guru) do some AMAZING things. Give him a call. You can't go wrong with his advice.
Thanks for your straight assessment .
The biggest problem I had was trying to get some one knowledgeable on the phone for 3 minutes and with a cam we all know you can really screw up with the wrong grind .
I'm very familiar with big block stuff but these little LS motors have me both amazed and perplexed .
Pat , thanks again for affirming my instintcs on this cam , I'm going forward with it .
I can have it ground on a 116 , 115 or even tighter . What do you think ?
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:33 PM   #9
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115 +3 is my first instinct but 115 +2 will be OK as well.

My personal preference is always a 115 LSA with 112 ICL (115 +3). Those duration specs will have 3 degrees of positive overlap and build great dynamic compression but not too much. It will have manageable reversion and be a snap to tune. It will make super power on Nitrous and would be a great centrifugal blower cam as well.

It will not be the BEST of any one area but a fantastic performer for any. Those specs give you lost of future options. My first thoughts on specs are POWER, DRIVEABILITY, VERSATILITY and TUNEABILITY in that order. Your specs are PERFECT considered in that order. Those specs are a 40-45 HP cam that sounds NASTY as hell, drives damn near stock with ZERO BUCKING and be easy to tune. How does it get any better, IMHO!

I could see the 115 +3 with as near to those specs on a XFI lobe and 150 shot of DRY NITROUS at the filter making a SHIT LOAD of TQ.

The +3 degrees of overlap will have a GREAT idle chop but be a BREEZE to tune!


CAVEAT! You spoke of waiting on headers, be advised that the lack of headers will sacrifice what this cam can offer. You are CHOKING this cam until you add headers and high flow cats.

Unless you have a place to grind this cam I still HIGHLY recommend you contact Trevor at TxSpeed for his final input and have it ground as a comp grind through TxSpeed. Trevor may have some input related to the exhaust to intake flow percentage with the LS3 head. He is one of the LSx Gen’s greatest cam wizards. You will learn LOADS with his input I promise. Once you hash out the final specs then TxSpeed can grind the cam at an AMAZINGLY competitive price.

I hope this helps. I am a student to the grind theories and even have a few of my own. Your 1st instinct are in perfect alignment with my preferences and thoughts. I grew up in the dirt world in Sprints and Modifieds. Been involved in quite a bit of cam selection choices there. The exahust to intake flow percentage on the LS3 requires some considerations unique to itself and Trevor has done some crazy ass grinds that seem silly untill it is tuned out and then it's like HOLY MOTHER OF GOD that rocks!

ENJOY BROTHER! I pray this helps.
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemaSSon View Post
115 +3 is my first instinct but 115 +2 will be OK as well.

My personal preference is always a 115 LSA with 112 ICL (115 +3). Those duration specs will have 3 degrees of positive overlap and build great dynamic compression but not too much. It will have manageable reversion and be a snap to tune. It will make super power on Nitrous and would be a great centrifugal blower cam as well.

It will not be the BEST of any one area but a fantastic performer for any. Those specs give you lost of future options. My first thoughts on specs are POWER, DRIVEABILITY, VERSATILITY and TUNEABILITY in that order. Your specs are PERFECT considered in that order. Those specs are a 40-45 HP cam that sounds NASTY as hell, drives damn near stock with ZERO BUCKING and be easy to tune. How does it get any better, IMHO!

I could see the 115 +3 with as near to those specs on a XFI lobe and 150 shot of DRY NITROUS at the filter making a SHIT LOAD of TQ.

The +3 degrees of overlap will have a GREAT idle chop but be a BREEZE to tune!


CAVEAT! You spoke of waiting on headers, be advised that the lack of headers will sacrifice what this cam can offer. You are CHOKING this cam until you add headers and high flow cats.

Unless you have a place to grind this cam I still HIGHLY recommend you contact Trevor at TxSpeed for his final input and have it ground as a comp grind through TxSpeed. Trevor may have some input related to the exhaust to intake flow percentage with the LS3 head. He is one of the LSx Gen’s greatest cam wizards. You will learn LOADS with his input I promise. Once you hash out the final specs then TxSpeed can grind the cam at an AMAZINGLY competitive price.

I hope this helps. I am a student to the grind theories and even have a few of my own. Your 1st instinct are in perfect alignment with my preferences and thoughts. I grew up in the dirt world in Sprints and Modifieds. Been involved in quite a bit of cam selection choices there. The exahust to intake flow percentage on the LS3 requires some considerations unique to itself and Trevor has done some crazy ass grinds that seem silly untill it is tuned out and then it's like HOLY MOTHER OF GOD that rocks!

ENJOY BROTHER! I pray this helps.
Thank you again .
I did change the cam specs per your recommendation .
My experience is with big block marine engines and I always run 260s cam 108 lc or upper 270s on the higher rev motors with the wider lc and always conservative lift for endurance .
My brother who has some LS1/2 experience was against the 117 cam as were a few others .
I bought the cam kit from Thunder in La. . I was anxious to start modding the Camaro . They were accessible plus their recommendations and logic were consistent with my previous experience .
I know a lot of guys are busy with big $ builds or tired of dealing with tire kickers and I can relate .
I really appreciate you freely sharing your experience and knowledge , I had already commited to Thunder and would never pull the deal from them after giving the order .
I'm going to dyno the cam and modded air intake only LS3 and post results . From there I'll contact you @ ADM when I'm ready for the next upgrade .
Again , Thanks .
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Old 04-02-2010, 01:36 AM   #11
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That's great info Pat, thanks! Here's also an interesting read:

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...son/index.html
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Old 04-02-2010, 09:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4xchamp View Post
Thank you again .
I did change the cam specs per your recommendation .
My experience is with big block marine engines and I always run 260s cam 108 lc or upper 270s on the higher rev motors with the wider lc and always conservative lift for endurance .
My brother who has some LS1/2 experience was against the 117 cam as were a few others .
I bought the cam kit from Thunder in La. . I was anxious to start modding the Camaro . They were accessible plus their recommendations and logic were consistent with my previous experience .
I know a lot of guys are busy with big $ builds or tired of dealing with tire kickers and I can relate .
I really appreciate you freely sharing your experience and knowledge , I had already commited to Thunder and would never pull the deal from them after giving the order .
I'm going to dyno the cam and cai only LS3 and post results . From there I'll contact you @ ADM when I'm ready for the next upgrade .
Again , Thanks .
Thunder has a PROVEN track record as well with the LSx Gen stuff. In fact they and TxSPD compete head to head with their grinds and you look at the specs and ramp rates and lobe selection......

Well GENERALLY speaking what works in a LS engine works the smae way for EVERYONE. A cam doctor is your friend. Those two companies do ALOT of things similarly is what I'll say !

Any how. I'm excited to see your setup come together and should we have a chance at any future business then all the better!

BURN RUBBER BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


TO ALL THAT PM ME ABOUT CAM SPECS

I have received several PM's asking about cam specs. I do have some theories about specs and will freely share my OPINIONS with anyone that takes the time to ask. It may take time for a reply but I will surely reply. I nor ADM have access to a company that can custom grind cams. Unless (as in the case above) you have your contact to grind the cam then I will recommend all the FINAL recommendations be coordinated with Trevor and TxSPD. I do not have ALL the lobe charts for lobe lifts at a givin duration so my recommendations will undoubtably be changed a TICK unless I have a chart with the actual LOBE PART# I'm recommending. In many cases I can actually have the exact COMP Cam lobe part# and you just call Trevor and say I want a comp grind with Part#'s so and so on X-LSA with +x whatever advance.....

CAVEAT I have some tools to CALCULATE P to V but the FINAL measuring will always be your repsonsibility at the time of install. I typically will NEVER recommend a lift or split that P to V even needs to be considered but the fianlly responsibility rests with the INSTALLER!
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Old 04-02-2010, 10:04 AM   #13
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Hey Champ i've been running a vector custom grind cam for a week now and this thing is incredible. The information is in this thread http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73140
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Old 04-02-2010, 05:44 PM   #14
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Hey Champ i've been running a vector custom grind cam for a week now and this thing is incredible. The information is in this thread http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73140
All I can say is wow ! Great job , I hope I fare as well .
I'm waiting for my cam kit and will post dyno results .
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:05 PM   #15
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hey champ, where in louisiana is thunder? looking at cams too. thx bobby
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:23 PM   #16
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ok champ, baton rouge i see.
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:20 PM   #17
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Try this .
http://www.thunderracing.com/
I'm installing 1 7/8 headers & high flow cats tomorrow .
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:41 PM   #18
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We have several custom grinds to pick from. Please feel free to give me a call at the shop to discuss.





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