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Old 04-01-2010, 01:39 AM   #1
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Cali Legal - Exhaust / Headers / HF Air Filter - Your recommendations?

Greetings

I'm shopping for California street-legal mods to improve HP and sound.

Thinking of shorty headers, exhaust and, of course, a hi-flow air filter.

Question - will shorty headers (combined with the other mods) actually deliver more HP? Or is sound their primary benefit? I know that on motorcycles opening up the headers can reduce back pressure on the engine and actually reduce HP. Thoughts?

Question - can you recommend CA street-legal exhaust set-up (other than GMPP)? Looking for HP first, sound second.

Question - I know folks have favorites, but aren't all hi-flow filters pretty much the same (from a performance perspective)? If not, what do you recommend versus GMPP?

Oh - and I want to do any/all of the above without a tune, if possible.

Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions!
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Old 04-01-2010, 07:05 AM   #2
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CAI cold air kit
Doug Thorley shorty headers
and the cat back that produces the sound you like.

This set up should run fine without a tune
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:32 AM   #3
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Just put whatever you want on your Camaro! Don't worry about Carb stickers. You drive a "CAMARO"! Not a Honda, cops loves muscle cars.
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:55 AM   #4
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The only thing you can run into issues on will be a CAI system as none of them are CARB exempt! Just keep your stock one to swap out when the time comes for a smog test.

I have DT shorties and no muffs on mine as well as the Cold Air inductions CAI.

You will get pretty much only sound from the axle back. The DT's made an appreciable difference as did the CAI.

If you don't want to deal with a CAI swap out down the road, use a K&N drop in and be done with it.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:01 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypurone View Post
The only thing you can run into issues on will be a CAI system as none of them are CARB exempt! Just keep your stock one to swap out when the time comes for a smog test.

I have DT shorties and no muffs on mine as well as the Cold Air inductions CAI.

You will get pretty much only sound from the axle back. The DT's made an appreciable difference as did the CAI.

If you don't want to deal with a CAI swap out down the road, use a K&N drop in and be done with it.
Thanks, Chuck!
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:07 AM   #6
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Before you blow $$ on shorties, i'd suggest you read the two current shorty threads and decide for yourself if they are worth the price. I personally wouldn't waste $$ on them but it's something you should make up your own mind about. A good CAI will make HP.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:59 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axis View Post
Before you blow $$ on shorties, i'd suggest you read the two current shorty threads and decide for yourself if they are worth the price. I personally wouldn't waste $$ on them but it's something you should make up your own mind about. A good CAI will make HP.
Everyone has their opinion on their performance and I don't feel that was a "standup" test as there was not enough time between resets of the ECM for it to relearn the shortie setup.

Regardless, they will change the exhaust tone to a more mellow, less raspy growl. Which I feel is worth it all by itself even without the noticeable performance gain I got.
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Old 04-01-2010, 12:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SSRSB View Post
Thanks, Chuck!
Welcome! Not sure how soon you are doing yours but I will be down in the Canyon Lake/Fallbrook/Bonsall area in May (24-29) and you can listen to my setup then if ya want! It won't be a good indicator for power as I am having a SC done when I am down there!!
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Old 04-01-2010, 12:37 PM   #9
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Ok, my car was done on 2 different dynos at 2 very different times and weather conditions. The RWHP was the same before and after the JBA Shorty Headers were put on. I was very unhappy. I like the sound that got a little better, but other than that, I don't see a difference. Now, a tune might solve the problem and that's next
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Old 04-01-2010, 03:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Js View Post
Ok, my car was done on 2 different dynos at 2 very different times and weather conditions. The RWHP was the same before and after the JBA Shorty Headers were put on. I was very unhappy. I like the sound that got a little better, but other than that, I don't see a difference. Now, a tune might solve the problem and that's next
You said it..

You need to test on the same dyno or nothing matters.

I saw a Supercharged 2010 Camaro do 420rwhp on one dyno and 560rwhp on another. You always need to use the same dyno or the numbers really don't matter.

DW
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Old 04-01-2010, 04:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
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You said it..

You need to test on the same dyno or nothing matters.

I saw a Supercharged 2010 Camaro do 420rwhp on one dyno and 560rwhp on another. You always need to use the same dyno or the numbers really don't matter.

DW
That's not a difference in dyno's, that's a difference of messed up settings.
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:50 PM   #12
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50HP

We have been installing the American Racing header system, which includes Headers, X-Pipe, and High Flow Cats with our CIA and a tune to make 50HP everytime with no other mods. Add in the Stage 2 camshaft and it's 100HP to 110HP extra. It is always a good idea to get a tune done when you are increasing the amount of air going in and out of the engine as well as getting all the new parts working together to make as much horsepower as possible. Not to mention the driveability of your Camaro after the work is done. Let me know if you have any questions I am happy to help.
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Old 04-01-2010, 06:29 PM   #13
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I'll probably be seeking help once my Diablo Trinity comes in I'm trying to read all about tuning and my little brain is swelling up! I'll actually get a dyno tune in a while, but will start with a canned tune.

I want to maximize all the mods I've made already without doing too much more on performance parts. Suspension mods are were I'm at now

Thanks
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypurone View Post
The only thing you can run into issues on will be a CAI system as none of them are CARB exempt! Just keep your stock one to swap out when the time comes for a smog test.

I have DT shorties and no muffs on mine as well as the Cold Air inductions CAI.

You will get pretty much only sound from the axle back. The DT's made an appreciable difference as did the CAI.

If you don't want to deal with a CAI swap out down the road, use a K&N drop in and be done with it.
Hypurone,
have you had any issues (law wise) with your muff delete? Did you do it yourself or were you able to find a shop to do it? I would really prefer a shop to do the delete for half or less the price than the SLP loudmouth.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Hypurone,
have you had any issues (law wise) with your muff delete? Did you do it yourself or were you able to find a shop to do it? I would really prefer a shop to do the delete for half or less the price than the SLP loudmouth.
None so far. But I always *****foot around when I see them. Also, remember I have an L99 and left the resonator in so it can't be as loud as an LS3 w or wo resonators. IMHO.

I had my local exhaust shop do it for me for 200.00 I think it was inc new SS tips that were a tad larger than stock. I had them paint the new pipes and inside the tips down where the pipes entered them with a high temp flat black. Makes a huge diff in aesthetics. Came out sweet!
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Old 04-02-2010, 06:32 PM   #16
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Thanks for the info Chuck! I would definitely like to do this.
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Old 04-02-2010, 06:42 PM   #17
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Thanks to everyone that replied. I ordered GMPP exhaust today for installation next Saturday. Still thinking about CAI. Going to skip on the headers for now.
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Old 04-02-2010, 07:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axis View Post
That's not a difference in dyno's, that's a difference of messed up settings.
A single roller with no load is always going to make more power than a load bearing dyno like a dyno dynamics or Mustang.

You have to use the same dyno or the same brand if you go to
another shop for accurate HP increases with changes done.

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Old 04-03-2010, 03:35 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SSRSB View Post
Greetings

I'm shopping for California street-legal mods to improve HP and sound.

Thinking of shorty headers, exhaust and, of course, a hi-flow air filter.

Question - will shorty headers (combined with the other mods) actually deliver more HP? Or is sound their primary benefit? I know that on motorcycles opening up the headers can reduce back pressure on the engine and actually reduce HP. Thoughts?
Street legal headers will be short tubes that retain the factory placement of the cats and O2 sensors. I know Doug Thorley makes them and I know they dyno very well. And yes, back pressure is reduced; but, on large v-8's (as opposed to smaller displacements & bikes) you won't lose anything and, in fact, will pick up gains through out the entire power range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SSRSB View Post
- can you recommend CA street-legal exhaust set-up (other than GMPP)? Looking for HP first, sound second.
Doug Thorley headers and flow master cat-back. Great performance, sound and price.

Please stop by and I will be very happy to share dyno results of the various headers that we have on file. I believe I have seen and tuned all the headers available and have a very clear picture on which headers perform better than others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SSRSB View Post
- I know folks have favorites, but aren't all hi-flow filters pretty much the same (from a performance perspective)? If not, what do you recommend versus GMPP?
All the aftermarket high flow air filters will flow more air than the engine can consume; - the gains from and "air intake system" will come from less restriction and proper design of the intake tubing and correct placement of the maf in the air stream. My choice is the Airaid product line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SSRSB View Post
- and I want to do any/all of the above without a tune, if possible.

Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions!
you will need tuning to make the most out of the mods.
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Old 04-03-2010, 03:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010 4 DW View Post
A single roller with no load is always going to make more power than a load bearing dyno like a dyno dynamics or Mustang.

You have to use the same dyno or the same brand if you go to
another shop for accurate HP increases with changes done.

DW
Everyone knows there are differences on different dynos but to show a 140whp difference is not within those variations. If those were true numbers off the screen, there was a problem somewhere.
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Old 04-03-2010, 01:35 PM   #21
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You have to be very careful with CAI kits in CA because there are still one's illegal in CA like the Cold Air Inductions CAI. But shorty headers are fine and you can't really get an exhaust for pure performance the numbers just aren't high enough so just go with the best sounding X-pipe catback exhaust. A tune is the best to optimize the shorty headers, exhaust and CAI, but you won't pass smog unless you have a tuner that can flash you back to stock like DiabloSport and other portable tuners or pay money for a dyno tune and pay to go back to stock :-) Enjoy the California smog laws!!! And if you want to get technical modifying the cars exhaust in any way to make it louder is illegal!!! lol so just have fun man get what makes you happy.
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Old 04-03-2010, 04:06 PM   #22
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You have to be very careful with CAI kits in CA because there are still one's illegal in CA like the Cold Air Inductions CAI. But shorty headers are fine and you can't really get an exhaust for pure performance the numbers just aren't high enough so just go with the best sounding X-pipe catback exhaust. A tune is the best to optimize the shorty headers, exhaust and CAI, but you won't pass smog unless you have a tuner that can flash you back to stock like DiabloSport and other portable tuners or pay money for a dyno tune and pay to go back to stock :-) Enjoy the California smog laws!!! And if you want to get technical modifying the cars exhaust in any way to make it louder is illegal!!! lol so just have fun man get what makes you happy.
Good info - thank you. I guess I'll wait for the GMPP air intake, which is supposed to be out in July.
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Old 04-03-2010, 04:26 PM   #23
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We love Khalifornia. No long tubes. No good CAIs.
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Old 04-03-2010, 04:51 PM   #24
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Quote:
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You have to be very careful with CAI kits in CA because there are still one's illegal in CA like the Cold Air Inductions CAI. But shorty headers are fine and you can't really get an exhaust for pure performance the numbers just aren't high enough so just go with the best sounding X-pipe catback exhaust. A tune is the best to optimize the shorty headers, exhaust and CAI, but you won't pass smog unless you have a tuner that can flash you back to stock like DiabloSport and other portable tuners or pay money for a dyno tune and pay to go back to stock :-) Enjoy the California smog laws!!! And if you want to get technical modifying the cars exhaust in any way to make it louder is illegal!!! lol so just have fun man get what makes you happy.
Technically, shorty headers aren't 50 state legal unless something has changed in the last couple weeks. Last I saw, some of them were still listed as "off road use" only.

How does a tune make you NOT pass smog detection? As long as the stock cats are in place and they are in good working order, they should pass the sniffer test.
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Pfadted (springs/sways)
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:17 PM   #25
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Technically, shorty headers aren't 50 state legal unless something has changed in the last couple weeks. Last I saw, some of them were still listed as "off road use" only.

How does a tune make you NOT pass smog detection? As long as the stock cats are in place and they are in good working order, they should pass the sniffer test.
Yeah but the ones I have are(Borla) ... For some reason Smog testers are able to tell when a car has a tune because my buddy has a mustang with a tune and in order for him to pass smog he must remove the tune and resubmit his vehicle
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