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Old 10-02-2008, 04:15 AM   #1
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U.S. auto sales plunge

U.S. auto sales plunge
Sales sharply lower across industry as automakers, experts say credit squeeze, customer worries led to sharp drops in sales.

By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer
Last Updated: October 1, 2008: 8:10 PM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Sales at the nation's top automakers fell sharply in September, as tighter credit for buyers and dealers combined with high fuel prices resulted in industrywide U.S. sales falling below the 1 million mark for the first time in more than 15 years.

The sales declines were broad based, with Japanese automakers reporting the same kind of double-digit declines that hit U.S. brands earlier this year when the record gasoline prices sent buyers scurrying from SUVs and pickups to more fuel efficient car models. Overall Asian brands saw a 31% drop in sales, more than the 24% drop among traditional domestic brands.

This time it was the credit crisis, not just gas prices, that cut into sales. Many buyers were unable to get the credit they needed to buy a car and a growing number of dealers saw their own credit cut off, causing widespread failures.

Add to that general nervousness about the economy and the industry was poised to sell fewer than a million cars in the United States for the first time since 1993. And auto executives say they don't think they've seen the bottom yet.

Overall industry sales toppled 27% to 964,873 vehicles, according to sales tracker Autodata, a level not seen since February, 1993. It was the biggest year-over-year drop in sales since January 1991, as the nation prepared for the start of the first Gulf War and experienced a gasoline price shock.

George Pipas, Ford's director of sales analysis, said the company estimates that industrywide sales to consumers were down slightly more, a 30% compared to last year, although a more narrow decline in fleet sales to business clients such as car rental companies limited the overall percentage drop.

Industrywide sales of light trucks, such as pickups, SUVs and vans, edged ahead of cars for 50.3% of industrywide sales. It marked the first time since March of this year that trucks outsold cars. But demand for both types of vehicles plunged from year-earlier levels with truck sales off 31% and car models down 22%.

Pipas said that sales, as well as traffic in showrooms, were down even more sharply the last 10 days of the month as the economic crisis got more and more attention.

"There are customers who are adopting a wait and see attitude," he said. "When the Dow falls 777 points [as it did this past Monday], I can assure you there weren't many people closing on a car or an HD TV or a home for that matter."

Market research firm CNW Research, which has tracked dealership traffic for 22 years, confirmed Pipas' view. The firm's reading on traffic in showrooms for the end of September was the worst it has ever reported, down 50% compared to a year earlier.

"Manufacturer incentives aren't pulling in the crowds. Dealer 'blow out sales' aren't working. And without showroom traffic, it's tough to sell anything," said Art Spinella, president of CNW.

Tom Libby, senior director of industry analysis for J.D. Power & Associates, said that even though the problems facing automakers in September were well known, the final numbers were "shocking."

Libby said it's now clear that credit market problems have become the greatest headwind for auto sales as buyers would need to pony up more cash if they really want a car.

"Who's going to put down $25,000 or $30,000 in cash right now? That explains a lot of this," he said.

GM, down 16%...but beats forecasts

General Motors (GM, Fortune 500) reported that sales of cars and light trucks dropped 16% from a year ago. That was better than the forecast of a 24% decline from sales tracker Edmunds.com but it was still clearly a sign of weaken demand.

Still GM executives said they were pleased with the results.

"September marked the second consecutive month where GM performed extremely well in tough market conditions," said Mark LaNeve, the GM vice president in charge of North American sales.

Sales of GM's cars fell 10% while sales of light trucks - such as pickups, SUVs and vans - declined 19%.

More pain at Toyota

Toyota Motor (TM) reported that its sales toppled 32% from a year earlier. The forecast was for an overall drop of only 18%. It was the sharpest percentage drop in U.S. sales for the Japanese automaker in 21 years.

Sales of cars dropped 28% and light truck sales plunged 38%.

After years of steady gains that made it No. 2 in terms of U.S. sales, Toyota has now had year-over-year declines in U.S. sales in all but one month since last December.

Ford, Chrysler sales down by a third

The news was just as bad at Ford (F, Fortune 500) and Chrysler LLC.

Ford reported that U.S. sales tumbled 35% from a year earlier. The forecast had been for only a 25% drop.

"Consumers and businesses are in a very fragile place," said Jim Farley, Ford group vice president. "An already weak economy compounded by very tight credit conditions has created an atmosphere of caution."

Privately-held Chrysler LLC, which includes the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands, posted a 33% decline, as light truck sales tumbled 34% and car sales dropped 29%.

Sales of virtually every model of car and truck at the two U.S. automakers fell by more than 10%. Among the exceptions where the Chrysler and Dodge minivans and Ford's Crown Victoria and the Lincoln Town Car. The latter two were helped by fleet sales.

Sharp drops at Honda, Nissan

Honda Motor (HMC) posted a 24% drop in U.S. sales, far worse than the 6% drop forecast by Edmunds. It was the worst drop in Honda's sales since 1981, and a sign that good fuel economy is no longer enough to buck broad industry declines.

Earlier this year, Honda was able to steal market share by touting its more fuel-efficient cars as gas prices kept rising. Sales actually rose from January through July

But September marked the third straight month of sales declines for Honda. Overall sales for the year are now lower than a year ago.

Nissan (NSANY) posted a 37% drop in sales, far worse than the forecast of a 12% decline.

First Published: October 1, 2008: 12:12 PM ET
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:39 AM   #2
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Toyota's getting hammered.
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:41 AM   #3
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Toyota's getting hammered.
im doin the happy dance
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:29 AM   #4
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Beautiful isn't it?
Quote:
GM, down 16%...but beats forecasts

General Motors (GM, Fortune 500) reported that sales of cars and light trucks dropped 16% from a year ago. That was better than the forecast of a 24% decline from sales tracker Edmunds.com but it was still clearly a sign of weaken demand.

Still GM executives said they were pleased with the results.

"September marked the second consecutive month where GM performed extremely well in tough market conditions," said Mark LaNeve, the GM vice president in charge of North American sales.

Sales of GM's cars fell 10% while sales of light trucks - such as pickups, SUVs and vans - declined 19%.

More pain at Toyota

Toyota Motor (TM) reported that its sales toppled 32% from a year earlier. The forecast was for an overall drop of only 18%. It was the sharpest percentage drop in U.S. sales for the Japanese automaker in 21 years.

Sales of cars dropped 28% and light truck sales plunged 38%.
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:45 AM   #5
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This is all actually pretty scary and could change the face of the car business as we know it.

On the flip side of that, those who are able to buy will likely get killer deals right now. Dealers will practically give the cars away to lower their monthly expenditures on insurance, lot space, etc.
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:55 AM   #6
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Gee, I feel so bad for them.


I'm sorry, is that rubbing salt in the wound?



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[B]
More pain at Toyota

Toyota Motor (TM) reported that its sales toppled 32% from a year earlier. The forecast was for an overall drop of only 18%. It was the sharpest percentage drop in U.S. sales for the Japanese automaker in 21 years.

Sales of cars dropped 28% and light truck sales plunged 38%.

After years of steady gains that made it No. 2 in terms of U.S. sales, Toyota has now had year-over-year declines in U.S. sales in all but one month since last December.

First Published: October 1, 2008: 12:12 PM ET
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:57 AM   #7
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This is all actually pretty scary and could change the face of the car business as we know it.

On the flip side of that, those who are able to buy will likely get killer deals right now. Dealers will practically give the cars away to lower their monthly expenditures on insurance, lot space, etc.
Nah, its temporary. Could be 2 years worth of temporary but still temporary. People will need to buy new cars sooner or later. Used cars can only keep going for so long. If people don't have money, they will buy cheaper cars.
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:04 AM   #8
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im doin the happy dance


You just used a smiley....

Are you gonna be ok??? Will you have to go on another 8 month hiatus???

I can edit your post for you if you'd like... no one has to know...



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Old 10-02-2008, 11:18 AM   #9
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You just used a smiley....

Are you gonna be ok??? Will you have to go on another 8 month hiatus???

I can edit your post for you if you'd like... no one has to know...



maybe, we will see i will have to see how sick i feel by this afternoon
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:22 AM   #10
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im doin the happy dance
I'm sending an ambulance. It'll be okay, headpunter. We'll get you checked out right away!

Doctor what is it?

He's got ...



... SMILIES!
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:25 AM   #11
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So this is the second post where you guys beat up on Toyota. Why them and not Nissan and Honda?
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:27 AM   #12
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because they are more of a threat to GM then the other imports. Nissan is clearly crazy because they say every car they make will beat a porsche and no one cares what honda does
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:29 AM   #13
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people are happy about are economy not being worth dirt? I would wait and see how GM does in the next 6 months. Car prices being raised and no more gm discounts now.
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:43 AM   #14
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So this is the second post where you guys beat up on Toyota. Why them and not Nissan and Honda?
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Originally Posted by jojohn33 View Post
people are happy about are economy not being worth dirt? I would wait and see how GM does in the next 6 months. Car prices being raised and no more gm discounts now.
So, a little brand loyalty is offensive??

C'mon guys. We're GM fanboys. 't' company and GM have been battling for the last couple years. So we're happy GM did better than expected and t did worse than expected.

I just don't think you are ever gonna find a biased argument regarding GM vs _________

FWIW.
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Old 10-02-2008, 02:10 PM   #15
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Terrible circumstances...but "good" results! GM beat expectations, and Toyota failed miserably.

Regarding my feelings towards Toyota, since it was brought up. I don't like their business practices...I don't like any of their cars...and I root for the home team; and they are GM's toughest competition.

But more directly; I dispise the reputation they've achieved and somehow maintained. For instance, look at the Cavalier, BOTH versions of it...as in the Toyota Cavalier, and the Chevy Cavalier....guess which one's people would have rather bought? Even though they're the exact same vehicle..... Due mostly to that, Toyota is poised to overtake GM in total sales, and I think it's ridiculous. So I celebrate anything that hurts them, frankly. So to see them loose nearly DOUBLE the sales that GM lost makes me very happy.
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Old 10-02-2008, 02:51 PM   #16
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For instance, look at the Cavalier, BOTH versions of it...as in the Toyota Cavalier, and the Chevy Cavalier....guess which one's people would have rather bought? Even though they're the exact same vehicle.....
to use a recent example, Vibe/Matrix
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Old 10-02-2008, 02:58 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Speedy1975 View Post
This is all actually pretty scary and could change the face of the car business as we know it.

On the flip side of that, those who are able to buy will likely get killer deals right now. Dealers will practically give the cars away to lower their monthly expenditures on insurance, lot space, etc.


I agree, I don't see how anyone can be happy about any part of this story.
The economy is going to shit and unemployment will shortly skyrocket.
Credit may soon become nearly non existent.
Don't have cash you will HAVE to keep that old car going or walk.
The 25 billion dollar bailout for the big 3 may be money down the tubes.
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Old 10-02-2008, 03:02 PM   #18
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But more directly; I dispise the reputation they've achieved and somehow maintained. For instance, look at the Cavalier, BOTH versions of it...as in the Toyota Cavalier, and the Chevy Cavalier....guess which one's people would have rather bought? Even though they're the exact same vehicle..... Due mostly to that, Toyota is poised to overtake GM in total sales, and I think it's ridiculous. So I celebrate anything that hurts them, frankly. So to see them loose nearly DOUBLE the sales that GM lost makes me very happy.
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to use a recent example, Vibe/Matrix
Interesting stuff. I never knew they shared cars like that. Thanks for the education.
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Old 10-02-2008, 03:05 PM   #19
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http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchar...-chrysler.html


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Detroit desperately needs the help. Many analysts expect all three domestic car companies to face a life-threatening crisis if the U.S. car market, down about 20 percent so far this year, stays in the doldrums. GM and Ford could start to run out of cash by the second half of 2009, a precursor to declaring bankruptcy. Chrysler's finances are now private, but its sales are down even more than at Ford and GM, and it may be starting to bleed its corporate parent, Cerberus.

The idea behind the loans is to buy time while the Detroit 3 revamp their lineups, develop new hybrids and other fuel-sippers, and convert old SUV plants into factories turning out hot cars able to compete with those from Toyota and Honda. "I think they're on the verge of really turning the page," says Stabenow. But Detroit has fallen mightily. Consumers reeling from $4 gas have fled the big trucks and SUVs that the manufacturers milked for two decades, and Detroit's smaller cars tend to rate poorly compared with competitors. The domestics' U.S. market share is now about 48 percent, a staggering fall of nearly 20 points since the start of the decade. Fitch Ratings expects GM and Ford to produce about 1.3 million fewer cars this year than in 2007. Even cheap loans will do little to help erase years of red ink. "Even if they had positive cash flow," says Mark Oline of Fitch, "it's going to take some time to make a dent in their debt load."

There's more aid coming. This year's $25 billion is just a down payment. The automakers now plan to ask the government for another $25 billion in loans next year. It's just spare change, after all.
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Old 10-02-2008, 07:28 PM   #20
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Interesting stuff. I never knew they shared cars like that. Thanks for the education.
A lot of people don't.

Funny conversation I was in once...

A guy I know: Yeah, we bought a toyota matrix, it's great.
Me: Why didn't you just get a Pontiac Vibe?
Guy: Dude, are you kidding me? Why would I get a Pontiac, they suck! Especially the Vibe!
Me: They're the same exact car.
Guy: Oh...uhh...

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Old 10-02-2008, 07:38 PM   #21
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So this is the second post where you guys beat up on Toyota. Why them and not Nissan and Honda?
Oh don't get us wrong, we don't like Honda either. Their cars are just as bland, uninspired, and underpowered as Toyota's.

I actually like Nissan. Yeah, I said it. They're able to make good looking cars without sacrificing quality or performance. The 350z is a blast to drive, and I certainly wouldn't mind a GT-R either. I would buy a Nissan way before any other Japanese brand.
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Old 10-02-2008, 07:56 PM   #22
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Their cars are just as bland, uninspired, and underpowered as Toyota's.
Tell that to my 4Runner
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:36 PM   #23
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I agree, I don't see how anyone can be happy about any part of this story.
The economy is going to shit and unemployment will shortly skyrocket.
Credit may soon become nearly non existent.
Don't have cash you will HAVE to keep that old car going or walk.
The 25 billion dollar bailout for the big 3 may be money down the tubes.
Its not that we are happy that the US economy is down. We are happy that GM did significantly better than the competition.
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Old 10-03-2008, 12:14 AM   #24
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Tell that to my 4Runner
That was directed towards the cars.













The 4runner is just overpriced.
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Old 10-03-2008, 04:38 AM   #25
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You just used a smiley....

Are you gonna be ok??? Will you have to go on another 8 month hiatus???

I can edit your post for you if you'd like... no one has to know...



Quote:
Originally Posted by headpunter View Post
maybe, we will see i will have to see how sick i feel by this afternoon
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