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Old 04-03-2010, 04:58 AM   #1
BabyHauler
 
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CAI/DT shorties DYNO???

Ok guys heres the deal I am getting a CAI cold air kit and some DT shorties.

I know that there has been alot of debating on the forum lately as to if the shorties work or not.

So I thought up this idea. I will get a baseline dyno then install the intake alone and dyno. Then when the headers come I can uninstall the intake and install the headers and dyno the headers alone. Then I can install both and get a final dyno to see if the combo of shorties/cold air nets anymore horsepower then the two parts seperatly.
This might help put to rest (or add more fuel to the fire) that shorties on these cars are not worthless. I think most people that go through the trouble and the costs of shorties probably already have a Cold Air kit anyway.

Ok here is the catch I can install everything I just can not pay for all the dyno work to be done. So I was thinking maybe we could get a few of us to pitch in a couple bucks in the name of horsepower/science. That or I am located up in the SF bay area maybe somebody knows somebody that knows somebody?

Finally I would just like to say that I am getting these parts anyway, this is by no means some ploy to try and get free dyno time (from what Ive been reading about shorties I might be better off not knowing lol).
I was just thinking since I am getting what could prove to be a popular part combo why not ask the guys at camaro 5 to see if they are interested in some independant numbers on the shorty/CAI combo
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:21 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by BabyHauler View Post
Ok guys heres the deal I am getting a CAI cold air kit and some DT shorties.

I know that there has been alot of debating on the forum lately as to if the shorties work or not.

So I thought up this idea. I will get a baseline dyno then install the intake alone and dyno. Then when the headers come I can uninstall the intake and install the headers and dyno the headers alone. Then I can install both and get a final dyno to see if the combo of shorties/cold air nets anymore horsepower then the two parts seperatly.
This might help put to rest (or add more fuel to the fire) that shorties on these cars are not worthless. I think most people that go through the trouble and the costs of shorties probably already have a Cold Air kit anyway.

Ok here is the catch I can install everything I just can not pay for all the dyno work to be done. So I was thinking maybe we could get a few of us to pitch in a couple bucks in the name of horsepower/science. That or I am located up in the SF bay area maybe somebody knows somebody that knows somebody?

Finally I would just like to say that I am getting these parts anyway, this is by no means some ploy to try and get free dyno time (from what Ive been reading about shorties I might be better off not knowing lol).
I was just thinking since I am getting what could prove to be a popular part combo why not ask the guys at camaro 5 to see if they are interested in some independant numbers on the shorty/CAI combo
I like the idea and would chip in.
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:51 PM   #3
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I would also chip in.
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:19 PM   #4
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I would paypal a few bucks as well if the conditions were right. I was 2 clicks away from buying DT shorties when I read all the negative hype about shorties, so I would love to get some reinforcing data.

I will throw in some $ if you can promise to do the following:
-Get all the data in a short time period. Have everything done in the next 30 days.
-Get all the tests done at the same dyno.
-Post detailed aviation weather data about the EXACT time you perform each dyno session, so I can plug the weather data into a calculator and get power #'s corrected for nonstandard density altitude. (I can show you where to get weather data)
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:43 PM   #5
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im looking at buying their shorties too. so i will be following this thread
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:47 PM   #6
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Telling you guys, the shorties ain't much different from the Long Tubes.....

I have em and they effin decimate. I still cannot understand all the sill people wasting the money on the Kooks and ARH and the likes....they haven't been able to prove that they do anything different for the huge price difference.

The shorties are nice, I've seen em. I'm game.


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Old 04-04-2010, 01:53 AM   #7
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shorties do work very well. i've had them on multiple muscle cars for the reasons of accessability underneath a daily driver.
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Old 04-04-2010, 02:04 AM   #8
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I also have the Thorley shorties and a Roto Fab intake along with an MGW shifter and all I can say is it runs wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than when I first got it.
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Old 04-04-2010, 06:25 AM   #9
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Ok I will call a few shops in the area to see how much dyno fees are.
I will also see how soon I will be receiving my DTs and CAI. I think the 30 day time limit might be a pinch because when I ordered my CAI system 2 days ago James at CAI told me that the systems were 10-12 days out. In my experiance I usually add a couple days to what Im told from the sellers.
Who knows maybe everything will come together and we can make this work.
Man Ill be pissed if the shorties make me lose 1hp.
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Old 04-04-2010, 07:31 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Bad Karma View Post
Telling you guys, the shorties ain't much different from the Long Tubes.....

I have em and they effin decimate. I still cannot understand all the sill people wasting the money on the Kooks and ARH and the likes....they haven't been able to prove that they do anything different for the huge price difference.

The shorties are nice, I've seen em. I'm game.


-Ivan
That is a bold statement, I see your proud of your shorty headers.

Here are some Facts, LT headers cat combo consistantly make 25-30 RWHP and there are hundreds of dyno tests that prove that fact.

There are NO INDEPENDANT dyno tests that can duplicate what the shorty manufacturers have claimed.

Then they chime in and say you need a cold air kit, cat back exhaust and tune to make the 18 RWHP they claim from Shorties alone.

The Cats are the single biggest restriction in the entire exhaust system.

Long Primary tubes are an extension of the exhaust port and when the right length is found the engine makes maximum HP.

LTs Definately not a waste of money in the quest for HP.

Ted.
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Old 04-04-2010, 07:36 PM   #11
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Here we go again...
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:07 PM   #12
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After reading all of the post (both negative and positive) about shorty's vs. longtubes I had a bit of apprehension about the shorty's performance value. But living in California and not wanting to deal with the smog cert issues I decided on the shorty headers figuring if they didn't meet my expectations I could always sell them.
I did not dyno benchmark my SS prior to the mods so I can't offer quantitive values but I can say the difference with the CAI/Shorty's and X pipe installed is very noticable.
The Halltech seemed to allow the engine to breath easier and respond better, the headers and x pipe seem to allow the engine to rev quicker with better low end torque. I have free flowing cats due in tomorrow, once installed I'll load the Diablo tune. Once I find a good dyno shop I'll see where the numbers land but I do have to say if I'm short 20hp vs. long tubes I won't be dissapointed as the performance improvements and drivablity to date have been worth it.
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:10 PM   #13
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So ted would you say that if you got shorties and removed the cats that we would be looking at at least 20rwp??
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Old 04-05-2010, 07:21 AM   #14
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So ted would you say that if you got shorties and removed the cats that we would be looking at at least 20rwp??
Maybe

But why bother with shorties if your going to remove the cats.

Long tube headers will always make a lot more power.
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:58 AM   #15
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Would you have to tune your cpu if you removed the cats?
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:26 AM   #16
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Would you have to tune your cpu if you removed the cats?
Yes sir.
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:34 AM   #17
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Tune your engine, say goodbye to your warranty. 5 years from now when my car is out of warranty I would be happy to upgrade to LT. Until then, shorties are just fine, thankyou!
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Old 04-05-2010, 01:01 PM   #18
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Still checking for more dyno shops around here but so far the best deal is a shop with a dynojet dyno charging 75 a session. I dont know if that is good or not. So for the experiment we will need 4 sessions so its looking like the dyno time will be 300ish as long as the sessions dont go over.

Session #1 Baseline
Session #2 CAI
Session #3 DT shorties
Session #4 CAI and Shorties

That should cover it right?
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Old 04-05-2010, 07:39 PM   #19
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Yes, that is pretty much how it would have to be done to see what each item does for power by itself.
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:11 PM   #20
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I think we all agree LT's get the most hp but for those of us who want to keep warranty the shorties are the only option besides nothing. So I would really like to see how they do. I know they wont put out what the LT's do but I would think there is something to be gained.
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
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That is a bold statement, I see your proud of your shorty headers.

Here are some Facts, LT headers cat combo consistantly make 25-30 RWHP and there are hundreds of dyno tests that prove that fact.

There are NO INDEPENDANT dyno tests that can duplicate what the shorty manufacturers have claimed.

Then they chime in and say you need a cold air kit, cat back exhaust and tune to make the 18 RWHP they claim from Shorties alone.

The Cats are the single biggest restriction in the entire exhaust system.

Long Primary tubes are an extension of the exhaust port and when the right length is found the engine makes maximum HP.

LTs Definately not a waste of money in the quest for HP.
Ted.
Ted, no arguement there...after reading my post, it seems like I'm advocating the Shorties.

I actually sport the DT Long Tubes. My words make it seem like I'm saying that the Shorties are the shizzle.

The Long Tubes in fact are what I'm saying "decimate."

Sorry. lol
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:49 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by BabyHauler View Post
Still checking for more dyno shops around here but so far the best deal is a shop with a dynojet dyno charging 75 a session. I dont know if that is good or not. So for the experiment we will need 4 sessions so its looking like the dyno time will be 300ish as long as the sessions dont go over.

Session #1 Baseline
Session #2 CAI
Session #3 DT shorties
Session #4 CAI and Shorties

That should cover it right?
That seems about right. Probably not going to find a much better deal, though the CAI install is very quick and easy so maybe you can talk them into letting you do that while the car is on the dyno and save one session or possibly two (combine Baseline and CAI, then combine shorties and CAI/shorties). Just a thought.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:15 AM   #23
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That seems about right. Probably not going to find a much better deal, though the CAI install is very quick and easy so maybe you can talk them into letting you do that while the car is on the dyno and save one session or possibly two (combine Baseline and CAI, then combine shorties and CAI/shorties). Just a thought.
I asked him about that and he said that that would probably drive us in to the 125 per hr range. He said that 75 dollar session was just 3 straight foward runs.

So It might save some money if I could install the CAI really fast because he said if im on the rollers the money clock is ticking.

Was also wondering if I should put some miles on the clock with each mod change to allow the cpu to do any "learning" it may have to do.
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Old 04-06-2010, 10:24 AM   #24
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My camaro is 6 weeks from delivery. I'm planning on doing the same thing you are. 20 bucks a run at a place in Ft. Worth. If you don't get the numbers posted I'll do it this summer. I'll have a few weeks between runs for install and CPU relearning.
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Old 04-06-2010, 01:01 PM   #25
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I asked him about that and he said that that would probably drive us in to the 125 per hr range. He said that 75 dollar session was just 3 straight foward runs.

So It might save some money if I could install the CAI really fast because he said if im on the rollers the money clock is ticking.

Was also wondering if I should put some miles on the clock with each mod change to allow the cpu to do any "learning" it may have to do.
Yes, to get a true reading of what each component is doing for power I would pull the fuse and run the car for a week in between runs to let the ECM relearn.
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