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Dragstrip and Launch Techniques Discussion 1/4 mile, 1/8 mile, launch discussions.

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Old 04-04-2010, 07:05 AM   #1
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Smile Official Learn To Drive Manual Cars Thread

Purpose
Recently I have seen several questions about manual driving basics, and I have posted a thread where I was grilled for my driving mistakes. I thought a compilation list of both good techniques and bad techniques should be posted and hopefully as a sticky.

There's a lot of people who do not know about double-clutching, rev-matching, or people who roll around in neutral (like me in turns )

Let this be the complete guide to driving a manual car

Post links to articles, videos, etc

Rules of the thread
This is not a bashing thread, or a "you dont know how to drive for shit" thread. This is a thread to discuss techniques whether they're wrong or correct driving techniques, and a thread to answer manual-driving related questions

finally...
Request to forum Mods
if this doesnt go out of control, and doesnt turn into a bashing thread could you make it a sticky please?
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:34 AM   #2
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60' time

M6 is a tough deal to get it to 60', a good driver can get a M6 to 60' @ 2 seconds flat. Without the good 60' time your final ET will suck. My best ET so far is 13.91 @ 111 mph 2.6 60' , left 6 10ths on the table. The best 60' to date is 2.3 but messed up the big end. Short shiffting is suppose to be important. By looking at Dyno sheet it starts to flaten out about 5700 rpm.
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:58 AM   #3
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I like your way of thinking!
I have seen several threads and I was interested in what others might say, so far, I have been dissappointed. With that said, I know that it may be hard to explain proper driving techinics but some simple pointers would be nice.

Here's an example: What should you do when you are sitting at a stoplight.
I have noticed that some people will sit at the light with the clutch pedal pushed to the floor waiting for the light to change. I have always been told to put the shifter into neutral and release the clutch pedal. When you hold the clutch pedal down the clutch plates are engaged and will cause additional wear on the cluctch plates. This is my opinion and I welcome any other opinions that confirm or deny what I have said...

The other problem that I see here is that normal daily driving and racing techinics vary greatly, so the best thing to do is to find a track event and get some professional instrution, the Hurst/B&M event on May 17th will be a great for this...

I know that we have some Very Smart people on this forum so I look forward to reading what others will say, and Thanks!!!
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:07 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comm54 View Post


I like your way of thinking!
I have seen several threads and I was interested in what others might say, so far, I have been dissappointed. With that said, I know that it may be hard to explain proper driving techinics but some simple pointers would be nice.

Here's an example: What should you do when you are sitting at a stoplight.
I have noticed that some people will sit at the light with the clutch pedal pushed to the floor waiting for the light to change. I have always been told to put the shifter into neutral and release the clutch pedal. When you hold the clutch pedal down the clutch plates are engaged and will cause additional wear on the cluctch plates. This is my opinion and I welcome any other opinions that confirm or deny what I have said...

The other problem that I see here is that normal daily driving and racing techinics vary greatly, so the best thing to do is to find a track event and get some professional instrution, the Hurst/B&M event on May 17th will be a great for this...

I know that we have some Very Smart people on this forum so I look forward to reading what others will say, and Thanks!!!
:flag2:
I pull it out of gear at a light. Even use the E brake on a incline. Tend to have tunes up loud, hard to hear RPM and have stalled it a few times on an incline.
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:22 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by mercuryman96 View Post
M6 is a tough deal to get it to 60', a good driver can get a M6 to 60' @ 2 seconds flat. Without the good 60' time your final ET will suck. My best ET so far is 13.91 @ 111 mph 2.6 60' , left 6 10ths on the table. The best 60' to date is 2.3 but messed up the big end. Short shiffting is suppose to be important. By looking at Dyno sheet it starts to flaten out about 5700 rpm.


I went the the drag strip for the first time this weekend!!!

I totally sucked off the line and I must have been taking a nap when the lights came on.

My first run was 13.7 and my second run was 13.5 @ 107mph
I tried to use the Launch Control but I did something wrong?!? I had to wait for the rpm's to come back down before I could leave so I left it on the line again...

I reccommend that everyone take their car to the local darg strip, road course, or whatever and drive your car the way it was Meant to be driven...

Please don't missunderstand me, I am saying take your car to a safe/ticket free environment and Learn what You and Your Car CAN Do!

How does that go... "Some times you Need to feed your ride some Speed"
:flag2:
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:24 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by arkay.wgl View Post
There's a lot of people who do not know about double-clutching, rev-matching, or people who roll around in neutral (like me in turns
Double clutching is a technique used with a non-syncro transmission, you can double clutch, but you're just wasting time. That's old school, let's stay away from it.

Rev matching is related to the above, but you can use this technique to downshift, and it is a bit easier on your drivetrain when done well, but it takes a lot of practice to be good at it, especially with throttle by wire cars.

Basic rev match, try this... at steady speed and low rpm's, go to neutral, rev the engine +500 rpm's and shift to the next lowest gear. When you're good at it, you can do it quickly, and let the clutch out much quicker without upsetting the car.

Get good at that and we'll go to rev-match while braking
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69 View Post
Double clutching is a technique used with a non-syncro transmission, you can double clutch, but you're just wasting time. That's old school, let's stay away from it.

Rev matching is related to the above, but you can use this technique to downshift, and it is a bit easier on your drivetrain when done well, but it takes a lot of practice to be good at it, especially with throttle by wire cars.

Basic rev match, try this... at steady speed and low rpm's, go to neutral, rev the engine +300 rpm's and shift to the next lowest gear. When you're good at it, you can do it quickly, and let the clutch out much quicker without upsetting the car.

Get good at that and we'll go to rev-match while braking
Thank You, that is excellent input!!!

I love the Racing Quotes...
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comm54 View Post


I went the the drag strip for the first time this weekend!!!

I totally sucked off the line and I must have been taking a nap when the lights came on.

My first run was 13.7 and my second run was 13.5 @ 107mph
I tried to use the Launch Control but I did something wrong?!? I had to wait for the rpm's to come back down before I could leave so I left it on the line again...

I reccommend that everyone take their car to the local darg strip, road course, or whatever and drive your car the way it was Meant to be driven...

Please don't missunderstand me, I am saying take your car to a safe/ticket free environment and Learn what You and Your Car CAN Do!

How does that go... "Some times you Need to feed your ride some Speed"
:flag2:
What was the 60'? From what I have read on this site the fast M6 guy's like to slide the clutch. Launch control a waist of tiime. With stock tires it goes into wheel. Wheel hop is bad and should be avoid at all costs or it will cost you $$$ at some point in time. Don't forget to clean wheel wells out after a trip to the the strip. # 1 thing dealers look for on warranty claims.
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comm54 View Post
Thank You, that is excellent input!!!

I love the Racing Quotes...
:flag2:
Thankie... I edited the rev's to 500 rpm, and that still may be too low, but, the same rpm drop you get on upshift from, say, 3rd to 4th, is the same rev's to blip UP to on downshift.... Is that confusing?
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
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What was the 60'? From what I have read on this site the fast M6 guy's like to slide the clutch. Launch control a waist of tiime. With stock tires it goes into wheel. Wheel hop is bad and should be avoid at all costs or it will cost you $$$ at some point in time. Don't forget to clean wheel wells out after a trip to the the strip. # 1 thing dealers look for on warranty claims.
First run was 2.42, and second run was 2.25. That was the 2 tenths that I picked up!

We had 4 5th gens at the track, the only guy that had good 60' times was the guy that was using the launch control. He had it down and had a 1.8

Great Stuff!
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:10 PM   #11
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Thankie... I edited the rev's to 500 rpm, and that still may be too low, but, the same rpm drop you get on upshift from, say, 3rd to 4th, is the same rev's to blip UP to on downshift.... Is that confusing?
That makes perfect sense! By watching the rpm's when you are upshifting you get a good idea of what you need when you are downshifting. As with all things to do with driving, it's all about the postion of your right foot. As long as the car is at a consistant rpm, i have found that the slightest "squeeze" of the pedal during downshifting will keep the rpm's right. The more aggressive that you drive will require more "finesse" to get this right.

The best thing I have heard recently is: You Don't use downshifting or the engine to brake the car, that's why we have Brakes!!!
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:22 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by comm54 View Post
First run was 2.42, and second run was 2.25. That was the 2 tenths that I picked up!

We had 4 5th gens at the track, the only guy that had good 60' times was the guy that was using the launch control. He had it down and had a 1.8

Great Stuff!

Stock tires or DR's? From what I have read the guy's on the Official go fast list slide the clutch.
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:32 PM   #13
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Stock tires or DR's? From what I have read the guy's on the Official go fast list slide the clutch.
All 4 cars were basically stock, we have an intake and an axle-back, and the slow guy had a great sounding exhaust, but the other 2 were totally stock!

Those guy's on the list are Good!!!

Lots of practice!!!
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:55 PM   #14
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That makes perfect sense! By watching the rpm's when you are upshifting you get a good idea of what you need when you are downshifting. As with all things to do with driving, it's all about the postion of your right foot. As long as the car is at a consistant rpm, i have found that the slightest "squeeze" of the pedal during downshifting will keep the rpm's right. The more aggressive that you drive will require more "finesse" to get this right.

The best thing I have heard recently is: You Don't use downshifting or the engine to brake the car, that's why we have Brakes!!!
And that's why (engine braking) it's a good idea to be in the correct gear for the turn, before you begin your turn... A bad downshift mid-tun can really piss off the rear tires
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Old 04-04-2010, 01:01 PM   #15
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Stock tires or DR's? From what I have read the guy's on the Official go fast list slide the clutch.
For the c5fest bunch, I don't think I'd be dumping the clutch with drag radials and stock shafts 1000 miles from home.
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Old 04-04-2010, 01:10 PM   #16
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For the c5fest bunch, I don't think I'd be dumping the clutch with drag radials and stock shafts 1000 miles from home.

I will be paying close attention to the fast M6 guys at C5 Fest. Like I said earlier in the thread 2.3 60 ' is my best.

Last edited by Merc; 04-04-2010 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 04-06-2010, 09:46 AM   #17
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Lots of tips on drag racing in this thread and launching an M6.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62548

Get Trailing Arms. BMR Fabrication has them for $139.99. You can install and they reduce 60 foot and stop wheel hop which will break things.
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Old 04-06-2010, 09:50 AM   #18
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My best 60' time on stock tires at 32 lbs is 1.87. What works best for me is to bring RPM's up to about 3k. When the light pops, I slip the Cluth to get moving. When I've rolled out about 10-15 feet, I roll onto the throttle while at the same time releasing the clutch rapidly. Not dumping it, but just short of that. There should be a little chirp or spin, but not much. If what you're doing isn't getting you the short time you want, try something else. Practice..... A lot.
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Old 04-06-2010, 09:30 PM   #19
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Lots of tips on drag racing in this thread and launching an M6.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62548

Get Trailing Arms. BMR Fabrication has them for $139.99. You can install and they reduce 60 foot and stop wheel hop which will break things.
Thanks for posting the link, Great Thread!!!
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Old 04-06-2010, 09:42 PM   #20
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Old 04-07-2010, 12:05 AM   #21
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I'm not drag racing, just driving the manual around town. I've been driving manual for...about 6 months now and the only downshifts I've done were really slow...like taking the exit ramp in 5th, put it in neutral and let it drop to idle...and then jam it into 3rd to speed back up after the turn, like a boss. Can you explain the proper way to downshift, explain it like I'm 10 years old lol.

Also, engine breaking. I've never even tried it, scared it will hurt my transmission. I've given rides to a few manual driving friends and they've razzed me for not engine breaking. Is is smart to do and how do you do it? Again, please explain like I'm 10 so I can try it out.

Thanks guys!
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Old 04-07-2010, 01:27 PM   #22
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I'm not drag racing, just driving the manual around town. I've been driving manual for...about 6 months now and the only downshifts I've done were really slow...like taking the exit ramp in 5th, put it in neutral and let it drop to idle...and then jam it into 3rd to speed back up after the turn, like a boss. Can you explain the proper way to downshift, explain it like I'm 10 years old lol.

Also, engine breaking. I've never even tried it, scared it will hurt my transmission. I've given rides to a few manual driving friends and they've razzed me for not engine breaking. Is is smart to do and how do you do it? Again, please explain like I'm 10 so I can try it out.

Thanks guys!
Let's say you want to downshift to pass a car.
Practice downshifting like this...

Find a lonely straight stretch of hiway, driving along at 2,000 rpm in 5th gear. Look at your speedo, remember the speed.

Downshift to 4th gear and run the same speed. What does the tach read?

Let's assume your rpm's went from 2,000 to 3,500 rpm's when you downshifted and running the same speed.

Shift back into 5th gear, and get your tach back to 2,000 rpm's. Downshift again, but this time, clutch in, rev to 3,500 rpm's, and hold rev's, downshift to 4th, clutch out while still holding rev's.

Give that a try and come back, tell us what happens.

When the motor isn't under load (coasting like during a shift), 3,500 rpm's will always be in the same spot when pushing the throttle. Ex: if you push the throttle 1 inch, you get approx. 3500 rpm's. Let your foot memorize that position.

If you do it over and over and over again, you'll start doing it faster each time. If you do it enough, eventually you'll be downshifting like a pro... clutch-blip-n-shift-declutch... Your engine braking buddies will be saying... "How did you do that?" Just smile and don't say a word.

It's kind of like learning to juggle, Orange said it best...
"OrangeChevyII Practice practice practice"
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Old 04-07-2010, 04:44 PM   #23
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Man am I so glad I came across this thread! MisterCamaro, I must say thank you for the "Rev-matching for Dummies" explanation. I am with Chicagojoe, sometimes things need to be explained to me like I am 10 years old! Even with your great explanation I am still a little confused

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Shift back into 5th gear, and get your tach back to 2,000 rpm's. Downshift again, but this time, clutch in, rev to 3,500 rpm's, and hold rev's, downshift to 4th, clutch out while still holding rev's.
Ok, I read this like you are telling us to clutch in, rev engine to 3.5k rpm's, with the clutch still in and foot on gas holding rev's shift into 4th. But the the clutch out while holding rev's part is what confuses me :(

Quote:
clutch-blip-n-shift-declutch..
Here I read it like: clutch in, rev to 3.5k rpms, with the clutch still in and foot on gas holding rev's shift into 4th, THEN release clutch.

I am a dumbass I know. Is my first interpretation or second the one that sound be preformed?
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:52 PM   #24
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Here I read it like: clutch in, rev to 3.5k rpms, with the clutch still in and foot on gas holding rev's shift into 4th, THEN release clutch.
ya you got it go try it now
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:47 PM   #25
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Man am I so glad I came across this thread! MisterCamaro, I must say thank you for the "Rev-matching for Dummies" explanation. I am with Chicagojoe, sometimes things need to be explained to me like I am 10 years old! Even with your great explanation I am still a little confused



Ok, I read this like you are telling us to clutch in, rev engine to 3.5k rpm's, with the clutch still in and foot on gas holding rev's shift into 4th. But the the clutch out while holding rev's part is what confuses me :(


Here I read it like: clutch in, rev to 3.5k rpms, with the clutch still in and foot on gas holding rev's shift into 4th, THEN release clutch.

I am a dumbass I know. Is my first interpretation or second the one that sound be preformed?
Sorry, I've been busy..... The rpm's I stated are generic, but yes, you're revving up the engine to meet your lower gear, but it's not necessarily 3500 rpm's. it's whatever your car's rpm's are at a particular speed in a particular gear.

This is just an example... let's say:
50 mph in 3rd gear is 4500 rpm's
50 mph in 4th gear is 3500 rpm's
50 mph in 5th gear is 2500 rpm's
50 mph in 6th gear is 1500 rpm's
(These aren't actual numbers for your car)

If your car is geared as above (it isn't), If you're cruising at 50 in 6th gear at 1500 rpm's, you can downshift to 3rd gear, but you should rev the engine to 4500 rpm's as you're shifting. When you release the clutch, have the engine revved to 4500 rpm's, and the car won't decelerate (engine brake).

What you're doing is getting your engine rpm's up to the same rpm's as the clutch.

Find out what your actual rpm's are at the same speeds as above and use those numbers.
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