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Old 03-15-2007, 12:47 PM   #1
necromant
 
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Will the Camaro have the Horses GM claims?

hey,

i like the styling of cars like the new mustang, camaro...

and i like the fact that they have lots of power for a good price!

until i watched this:



the mustang gt500 was dyoned with 440 hp. how lame is that!?
it's a v8, it has lots of displacement AND a supercharger, those machines should have MORE power than the spec sheet says!!!!

is that a ford-only problem?
do gm engines generally have the power they should have?

thank god that the camaro gets a full rear-suspension...

greetings from europe
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Old 03-15-2007, 12:56 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by necromant View Post
hey,

i like the styling of cars like the new mustang, camaro...

and i like the fact that they have lots of power for a good price!

until i watched this:



the mustang gt500 was dyoned with 440 hp. how lame is that!?
it's a v8, it has lots of displacement AND a supercharger, those machines should have MORE power than the spec sheet says!!!!

is that a ford-only problem?
do gm engines generally have the power they should have?

thank god that the camaro gets a full rear-suspension...

greetings from europe


Not quite sure, but it sounds like they are equating rear-wheel horsepower with horsepower at the flywheel. The GT500 makes 500 Horse at the flywheel. No car makes the same amount of power at the wheels as it does at the flywheel, so naturally the dyno is going to report fewer horsepower. 440HP at the wheels sounds about right.

Whats more, is that every GT500 you put on the dyno is going to report different power ratings because every car is unique and there are a lot of variables that go into the powerloss through the drivetrain.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:05 PM   #3
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that's completly true, i know the difference between whp and hp, but i think the pro's of that tv show know that too!? well, they should...
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:21 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by necromant View Post
that's completly true, i know the difference between whp and hp, but i think the pro's of that tv show know that too!? well, they should...
Yes, they should.... If they expected the GT500 to lay down 500 HP on the dyno then they are living in a fantasy land.

EDIT: If I remember right the average power loss from flywheel to rearwheel is about 13%. If the GT500 dynoed at 440HP, that is a 12% loss which is pretty good. Even if the Camaro loses 13%, and it has the 425HP that is anticipated out of the LS3, then it will still make approx 370HP at the wheels.... I'll take that!
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:35 PM   #5
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Ford is notorious for overrating the horsepower of their cars. They had quite an embarassing scandal back in the late '90s with their Cobra Mustang which claimed to put down 320 HP at the crank, but was dynoing at around 190-200 HP at the wheels. All those cars had to be recalled and fixed and Ford stopped making the Cobra for 2 years before re-introducing it in 2001. Plus, the 2005 Mustang GTs were on average, only dynoing at 245-250 at the wheel, despite a claim of 300 HP at the crank. In '06, they fixed the problem and now they dyno between 265-270 wheel HP, which is correct for a 300 HP car. Drivetrain loss should never be more than 35 HP.

The Shelby GT500s 440 HP at the wheel is pathetic for a 500 HP car, especially one that weighs over 4100 pounds. I mean the Z06 gets 475 HP at the wheel with the LS7.

GM on the other hand generally tends to be very accurate or underrates the power in their performance cars. Certainly the LS1 F-bodies can lay testament to that, with cars rated at 325 HP, but many dynoing 310+ at the wheels, bone stock.
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Old 03-15-2007, 03:23 PM   #6
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Good ole GM. They do the right thing and be modest, and the magazines probably tore them apart for having less reported power than Ford. Well, such is life...:p
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Old 03-15-2007, 07:01 PM   #7
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Has anyone seen the latest ( May) issue of Hot Rod magazine? Makes you think doesn't it?
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Old 03-20-2007, 08:52 AM   #8
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Most of the cars Gm makes are under rated. So yes i think it will have that if not more. Look at the LS1 cars most were way over the 305hp rating.
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:48 AM   #9
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35th02ss you are correct sir, gm even to this day says their engines put out less than they really do. my 2004 monte carlo with a 3.4 ohv V6 is rated at 180-185 at the crank, but it feels like it is putting out at least 200 or more. I had a Thunderbird with the 4.6 ohc V8 that put out 200 and it felt like it had the same power, both cars are about the same size and weight, only major difference is the ford is rwd and the chevy is fwd. my brother has a 2004 short wheelbase trailblazer 4wd and that 4200 dohc inline six feels a LOT stronger than the 275 it is rated at .
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:59 AM   #10
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for the 2007 model the trailblazer and GMC envoy is rated at 291. My mom drives a 02 envoy with the same engine and i totaly agree it feels like it has much more power than GM has stated.
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:45 PM   #11
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Just look to the C6 ZO6...making big HP isn't a problem for GM.

I'm not worried at all that the new Camaro will carry on that tradition.
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:50 PM   #12
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Just look to the C6 ZO6...making big HP isn't a problem for GM.
Not to mention in a very fuel efficient package! How many cars make over 500 hp and still get 26mpg?
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:55 PM   #13
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Not to mention in a very fuel efficient package! How many cars make over 500 hp and still get 26mpg?
Great point!
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Old 03-20-2007, 07:10 PM   #14
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Has anyone seen the latest ( May) issue of Hot Rod magazine? Makes you think doesn't it?
And to think I scrolled right over that without realizing. *slaps self* ty mr GM guy
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