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Camaro Price | Ordering | Tracking | Dealers Discussions Discuss pricing and ordering experiences.

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Old 10-08-2008, 12:59 PM   #1
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Arrow Ordering Tips

This is the first time I have ever bought a new car, much less ordered one before it is even out. I am sure I am not the only one like this and was wondering if any of you all that are more experienced have some tips for ordering and watching out for dealer scams. What kind of questions should be asked when going in on monday to order, etc.
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:31 PM   #2
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rofl i was thinking the exact same thing the only other thing ive bought brand spanking new was my motorcycle and for it all you get to decide it the color, i'm writting down a list of stuff i want to know now and i'm bout to call the local dealership.
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:52 PM   #3
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Care to share some of the things you are wanting to know? I am thinking I need to ask about any fees, not sure what else.
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:56 PM   #4
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1.) do i need to make a downpayment on the car? is it refundable? and how much?

2.) what are your plans for the pricing on the camaro when it comes out?

3.) is there a waiting list already for the car? if so where would i be at?





thats all i have for now this is a local dealership that someone posted on the msrp or below thread, just more or less checking to see if thats what there really charging and to see if they know whats going on or if i should check elsewhere. been trying to think of some other things to ask, i really need to start writing down all the random question i have while reading these forums lol.
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:14 PM   #5
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Well I have found a dealer that will give me $1000 over invoice. There is $1000 refundable downpayement. I know there must be more I should ask, just not sure what it is.
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:25 PM   #6
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Yea me too. This will be the 1st time I've ever bought a new car and I've not bought a used car in years. While I don't have any questions about the process of buying a new car, I am curious about the costs of tag and title and if tax on a new car is based on the states sales tax or if there is a different tax for new vehicles.
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:53 PM   #7
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My advice for what it's worth, and I've bought several brand new cars....

Things in dealerships will be done in stages.

Stage 1 - The salesman - he talks you into buying the car, gets you excited about ownership, and will try to have you imagine yourself driving and owning the car. He will banter back and forth with his "Sales Manager" and pretend to be on your side during these negotiations. A 4 square worksheet will likely be used. This is where you'll work out your purchase price + any options and addons like mud guards, floor mats, whatever. If you're trading in a car during this Stage be sure to treat that as a separate transaction. The numbers will get fuzzy very quickly, so you'll want to know two things: A) what am I paying for this new car? B) what trade in are you giving me for my car? Don't let them roll it all together.

If you're not trading in a car, then just focus strictly on sale price OTD (out the door). Remember, you'll be paying for the car + tax + title +license + doc fees charged by the dealer. These "doc" fees are silly fees and can vary by as much a $200 - $300 per dealer.

Your best bet all around is to shop 3 dealers and get three quotes on the car you want. Get the three dealers dealing against each other to make you the best deal and go with the best deal.

Never go in saying you want your payment to be XXX.XX / mo. This opens you up to a 6 or 7 year loan and you'll WAY over pay. Always stick to the total OTD. Take a calculator. I've caught sales managers in number tricks several times because I had a calc on hand to check the math. Once they realize they can't screw with you, you'll get their bottom line deal and no more games.

Going through the internet usually garauntees a better deal as the internet salesman will assume you've done your homework and know what others are paying.

Stage 2 - The Finance Office - This is where you'll work out how you're paying for the car. This is also where dealerships make a TON of money. If you're going to finance the car, shop around with your local banks to find out what interest rates you'll qualify for. Beware of any and all additional crap the finance officer will try to talk you into such as extended warranties, payment insurance, clear coat protector, fabric protector, etc. Most of this is just garbage to increase over all profit. I never buy any of this stuff, you'll have to make that decision on your own whether it's worth it or not. If you're buying loan insurance you probably can't afford the car anyway and should wait and save more for your down payment.

Beware of rolling any of the extras you decide to purchase into the amount financed. Say your extended warranty is $2,000. The loan officer will try to tell you it's only $32.38/mo if you roll that into the loan. The problem is that then you're also paying interest on that $2,000 warranty making it even more expensive. If you want extras, pay cash for them as part of the down payment.

Double check every single number on every single piece of paper you sign. I've been in the middle of deals before where I've found typos on the number of years for the loan, the interest rate, etc. It'll be a lot of papers, so take your time.

Avoid financing anything longer than 48 mos. 36 mos is even better unless it's some special at 0% interest. The problem with stretching out the loan more than 48 mos is that you end up upside down in the car very quickly unless you plopped down a huge down payment, and if you were able to do that, then you should be able to shorten the term to 36 mos.
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:57 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Mr_Draco View Post
Yea me too. This will be the 1st time I've ever bought a new car and I've not bought a used car in years. While I don't have any questions about the process of buying a new car, I am curious about the costs of tag and title and if tax on a new car is based on the states sales tax or if there is a different tax for new vehicles.
In TN it's 9.75% sales tax on the car, new or used. The thing to watch for here is if you have a trade in. Say the car is $30,000. The dealer says they're gonna give you $5,000 for your trade in (trade in allowance). Then you only pay tax on $25,000. (30,000 - 5,000 trade in allowance = 25,000).

That's how I figure if I should sell out right or trade the car in. I take the dealer's offer for trade in, add that together with the tax I'd save:

$5,000 (tia) x 9.75% (tax) = $487.50
$5,000 + $487.50 (tax) = $5487.50

So unless I could sell the car for $6,000 it' better to just trade it in and avoid the hassle.

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Originally Posted by GoldFire View Post
Well I have found a dealer that will give me $1000 over invoice. There is $1000 refundable downpayement. I know there must be more I should ask, just not sure what it is.
What's the doc fee? (I've seen this be anywhere from $100 - $500)

Is there a dealer prep fee? (I've seen this anywhere from $100 - $400)

Does that $1,000 over invoice include delivery fees? ($675?)

Remember to add in taxes (9.75% in TN to the purchase price). For a $30,000 car taxes alone are $2925 for me.

Don't forget to add in your tags.

That's all I can think of right now.
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy1975 View Post
My advice for what it's worth, and I've bought several brand new cars....

Things in dealerships will be done in stages.

Stage 1 - The salesman - he talks you into buying the car, gets you excited about ownership, and will try to have you imagine yourself driving and owning the car. He will banter back and forth with his "Sales Manager" and pretend to be on your side during these negotiations. A 4 square worksheet will likely be used. This is where you'll work out your purchase price + any options and addons like mud guards, floor mats, whatever. If you're trading in a car during this Stage be sure to treat that as a separate transaction. The numbers will get fuzzy very quickly, so you'll want to know two things: A) what am I paying for this new car? B) what trade in are you giving me for my car? Don't let them roll it all together.

If you're not trading in a car, then just focus strictly on sale price OTD (out the door). Remember, you'll be paying for the car + tax + title +license + doc fees charged by the dealer. These "doc" fees are silly fees and can vary by as much a $200 - $300 per dealer.

Your best bet all around is to shop 3 dealers and get three quotes on the car you want. Get the three dealers dealing against each other to make you the best deal and go with the best deal.

Never go in saying you want your payment to be XXX.XX / mo. This opens you up to a 6 or 7 year loan and you'll WAY over pay. Always stick to the total OTD. Take a calculator. I've caught sales managers in number tricks several times because I had a calc on hand to check the math. Once they realize they can't screw with you, you'll get their bottom line deal and no more games.

Going through the internet usually garauntees a better deal as the internet salesman will assume you've done your homework and know what others are paying.

Stage 2 - The Finance Office - This is where you'll work out how you're paying for the car. This is also where dealerships make a TON of money. If you're going to finance the car, shop around with your local banks to find out what interest rates you'll qualify for. Beware of any and all additional crap the finance officer will try to talk you into such as extended warranties, payment insurance, clear coat protector, fabric protector, etc. Most of this is just garbage to increase over all profit. I never buy any of this stuff, you'll have to make that decision on your own whether it's worth it or not. If you're buying loan insurance you probably can't afford the car anyway and should wait and save more for your down payment.

Beware of rolling any of the extras you decide to purchase into the amount financed. Say your extended warranty is $2,000. The loan officer will try to tell you it's only $32.38/mo if you roll that into the loan. The problem is that then you're also paying interest on that $2,000 warranty making it even more expensive. If you want extras, pay cash for them as part of the down payment.

Double check every single number on every single piece of paper you sign. I've been in the middle of deals before where I've found typos on the number of years for the loan, the interest rate, etc. It'll be a lot of papers, so take your time.

Avoid financing anything longer than 48 mos. 36 mos is even better unless it's some special at 0% interest. The problem with stretching out the loan more than 48 mos is that you end up upside down in the car very quickly unless you plopped down a huge down payment, and if you were able to do that, then you should be able to shorten the term to 36 mos.
Very Sound advice.
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:29 PM   #10
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And make sure that any promises, or anything is on paper in plain writing and signed by them and you
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:43 PM   #11
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Thank you for the advice. On these different fees, are there ways to get the dealer to remove those fees?
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:52 PM   #12
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Thank you for the advice. On these different fees, are there ways to get the dealer to remove those fees?
Not typically. They are negotiable though. That's why I emphasize the "OTD" price.

Sometimes the fees will show up the same, but they remove costs from somewhere else. So if you say "I'll only pay $30K" they make all the fees and what not fit that amount.
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:18 PM   #13
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So if I try to negotiate cheaper fees do I just ask if I can get cheaper fees, or is there a better way of saying it?
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:30 PM   #14
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Ok when I bought my BMW 135i me and A LOT of other people used this method and it worked out amazingly...I don't know if this will help you but just in case here it is...It's called the "Rizzo Method" look at it and let me know what you think.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/faq/rizzo.html
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:15 PM   #15
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Ok when I bought my BMW 135i me and A LOT of other people used this method and it worked out amazingly...I don't know if this will help you but just in case here it is...It's called the "Rizzo Method" look at it and let me know what you think.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/faq/rizzo.html
That is good generally, but doesn't help much in this situation since we don't know the price of the car yet.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:20 PM   #16
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That is good generally, but doesn't help much in this situation since we don't know the price of the car yet.
This is true you don't know the price, but on monday, I'm sure that all that is going to happen is you sitting down and telling them what you want on the car. Like you said theres no price yet, so therefore you don't really have to ask a whole lot of questions, your not gonna be number crunching on monday, negotiating fees, or anything like that set in stone yet due to the fact there is no price. NOW, once the pricing does come into affect, then I would refer to that little write up I posted...It helped me and alot of other 135i owners out alot.
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Old 10-08-2008, 07:11 PM   #17
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So if I try to negotiate cheaper fees do I just ask if I can get cheaper fees, or is there a better way of saying it?
Well, I hate to say this, and please don't take it the wrong way, but since you're committing to buying a brand new model sight unseen, you're pretty much screwed on getting any deals on the charges. Expect to pay the maximum for everything.

That's the price you'll pay to be first to have this vehicle, among other things.
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Old 10-08-2008, 11:47 PM   #18
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very good advice... i have a 2008 Pontiac G5 GT im going to trade....has 20k miles on it now will prob have around 36k by march. I want to get my camaro asap. when should i place an order? I bought the G5 new and yes it is paid for, but i want the best deal on my trade in. how am i going to know what my G5 is worth when its time for the actual financing? could i set a price? what do you think the dealerships will do? i have four dealerships i plan on talking to.
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Old 10-09-2008, 06:34 AM   #19
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Thank You Speedy1975, GREAT information!!!
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Old 10-09-2008, 08:25 AM   #20
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Some good info.....but if you want the best deal....don't use the dealer financing, don't use a trade in and most importantly.....arrange financing before you even go to the dealership. You eliminate a lot of stress and headaches by arranging your financing through your own bank or credit bureau. Also....its best if you go alone. If you take someone with you, they will put you in an office and the salesman will keep giving you a little info, leave the room so you will discuss it while they listen in, come back talk a little more, and leave to listen in. This occurs at a lot of dealerships, but not all. If its not possible to go alone, don't discuss anything when the salesman leaves the room. If you need to discuss something, get up and walk out into the showrrom and discuss it where they can't hear you. If you don't believe me, play the game and try saying something like.....man, I'm thirsty....wonder if they have a bottled water or something to drink around here. My bet is the salesman will come back with it for you or ask you if you would like something to drink. My step dad and I like to do this during major holidays when we have family get togethers. We get bored so we go down to a local dealership, pretending to be interested in buying a car. My step dad didn't believe me that they did this. If anyone wants to hear some funny stories I can elaborate.
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Old 10-09-2008, 08:30 AM   #21
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I posted a "how to" in another thread that you should take a look at. I know all about the system and how to tell you to beat it. I forget the thread though and I am busy at work this AM. See if you can find it, it should help ya
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:27 AM   #22
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Some good info.....but if you want the best deal....don't use the dealer financing,
Not necessarily. You need to check with your bank to see what rate they offer, then check with the dealer at the time of purchase and go with whomever has the better rate.

I've NEVER had a bank beat a dealer rate and I've bought several new and used cars. Dealers can offer lower rates due to kick backs and promotions from the manufacturer. I've gotten 2.9 - 3.9% rates historically when the best my bank could do was 5.5%.
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:57 AM   #23
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Some good info.....but if you want the best deal....don't use the dealer financing, don't use a trade in and most importantly.....arrange financing before you even go to the dealership. You eliminate a lot of stress and headaches by arranging your financing through your own bank or credit bureau. Also....its best if you go alone. If you take someone with you, they will put you in an office and the salesman will keep giving you a little info, leave the room so you will discuss it while they listen in, come back talk a little more, and leave to listen in. This occurs at a lot of dealerships, but not all. If its not possible to go alone, don't discuss anything when the salesman leaves the room. If you need to discuss something, get up and walk out into the showrrom and discuss it where they can't hear you. If you don't believe me, play the game and try saying something like.....man, I'm thirsty....wonder if they have a bottled water or something to drink around here. My bet is the salesman will come back with it for you or ask you if you would like something to drink. My step dad and I like to do this during major holidays when we have family get togethers. We get bored so we go down to a local dealership, pretending to be interested in buying a car. My step dad didn't believe me that they did this. If anyone wants to hear some funny stories I can elaborate.
What does matter if they listen? I was planning on having someone come with me since I am 20 and I don't want them to think I am some stupid kid and try to push me around and cheat me, is that not a good idea?
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Old 10-09-2008, 10:05 AM   #24
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What does matter if they listen? I was planning on having someone come with me since I am 20 and I don't want them to think I am some stupid kid and try to push me around and cheat me, is that not a good idea?
Just mind what you say while in the office alone. It has been rumored that there are listening devices in the sales offices that go to the sales manager's office. However, the bigger thing to watch for is the salesman hitting the "intercom" button on the phone or leaving a phone on speaker when they leave the office.

I don't think it's a bad idea to take someone with you. Just as long as they're gonna give you good advice and not get wrapped up on the new car bug.

The bottom line for you is that there wont' be much negotiating so all this is really irrelevant. You've already committed to buying the car for MSRP. Just make sure your deposit of $1K goes toward the purchase and watch out for any clear coat, under coat, warranty mumbo jumbo and you'll be fine. I doubt you'll even get that far on Oct 13. That will come in January when you go to pay for the car.
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:13 PM   #25
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i don't go back home from college until the end of december. what are my chances of ordering the camaro i want and still getting it on time?
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