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Old 10-14-2008, 09:44 PM   #1
exilio
 
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Anyone else worried about ... the big "R"?

I am talking the big R as in RELIABILITY.

For years I have only bought foreign, because reliability was important to me. But for the past several years I have really wanted to buy a car from an American auto maker--I really dig the Camaro and would love for it to be that car. However, I am worried about reliability. I want to show my support for an American car make, but I don't want to get hosed in the process.

Anyone else concerned about the same thing?

For years I have wondered why companies like GM don't try to fight the perception that their vehicle are unreliable, by doing things like increasing warranty periods, miles or offering free service.

Anyways -- I would love to hear your guys thoughts.
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:50 PM   #2
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I have owned nothing but GM vehicles my entire life, and my parents for their entire lives. If I was ever disappointed or concerned with the reliability of GM my family would have stopped purchasing them a loooooong time ago. I have never had a problem with any car ive owned.
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:55 PM   #3
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the same, the only non gm vehicle my family ever owned was a ford van and it was the Biggest piece of junk ever. my current colorado is 3 years out from the dealer's lot and still in great condition. and i treat it like crap most of the time.

gm's quality as a whole hs gone up alot since bob lutz became the "quality Czar"
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:55 PM   #4
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With the exception of a couple of cars (and they weren't that great), I've only owned Chevrolet. I've had no problems except for normal wear on a Malibu I owned after it got a lot of miles. My current is a Cobalt that is now two years old with a little over 10k miles, and I've had 0 problems, and that's one of their lower end cars!
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:56 PM   #5
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Not concerned in the least.
My current Camaro is still running strong at almost 100k miles.

But having worked as a Service Adviser for both Chevy and VW, I can say that every manufacturer has some issues, and some gems.
Winding up with a reliable car can boil down to getting the one that was built on Monday versus the one built on Friday.

That being said, personally I plan on getting the longest extended warranty that is offered from GM, just in case.
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:00 PM   #6
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Read my Sig... HAHA!!! Im not going to lie I have had a few problems with this car. But the fact that it is still running amazes me. Most of all because I drive like a bat out of hell!!!
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:01 PM   #7
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The truth is, you usually only hear about how unreliable or bad vehicles are because when something goes wrong, its more of a deal than something good happening(i guess...) and therefor those few people are more likely to post or complain than the people that have no problem. That may have been confusing but i hope you understand what i mean.
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:17 PM   #8
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The last GM experience I had was not exactly stellar. Bought a brand new '99 Oldsmobile Alero V6 coupe. At 2500 miles the trasmission quit. It took close to a month for the dealer to fix it, and it never felt the same. Then there was the annoying stuff like the driver's side power window falling off the track, the rear defroster quit working, the passenger seat track broke, the blower fan only worked on the 2 highest speeds, and the list goes on. About a year and a half ago at 90,000 miles, the engine developed a loud tick when cold - sounded to me like one of the lifters collapsed. That was the last straw, I dumped the car. So I can definitely relate to the quality worries, but this new Camaro is awesome, so I'd be willing to give it another shot.
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:21 PM   #9
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I have had unmatched quality in my GM vehicles. Just look at my sig. That Safari van is still on the road with over 300,000 miles. We had never had any problems with it when we sold it in 2003.

And for proof of GM's new quality, just look at JD Power and Associate's best midsize car in initial quality, the best pickup truck, and the best full size car. GM wrapped up all three categories with the Malibu, Silverado, and Grand Prix.
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:27 PM   #10
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My 95 Impala SS has been in the family for about 10 years now. My mother had it before and she isn't the kindest person ever to a car.

It now has 156,000+ miles and I have only had one mechanical problem ever and that was a simple heater hose fix. I drive this car like I'm chasing somebody down and I haven't had any problem other than that.

I always thought GM had good quality, and it was the japanese cars that had reliability problems?
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:28 PM   #11
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Also, this Camaro is going to be one of the biggest names in the auto industry. GM has A LOT riding on this car and I seriously doubt they'd let it have a bad name due to reliability issues.
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:43 PM   #12
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In 1997, when I was 20, I bought a fully loaded 1990 Beretta GT with 57k miles. It was near mint condition, and I absolutely loved it.......

Untill the paint started peeling, the interior plastic started cracking, the doors started rattling, and the car just started to overally feel rough and flimsy.

So, in 1999, I was -this- close to buying a Camaro Z28 untill someone I worked with encouraged me to look elsewhere, and pointed out that the Camaro's interior plastics are not much better quality than my Beretta's (and let's all be honest, the 3rd and 4th gen interiors were not made with the finest quality materials).

I ended up buying a brand new 2000 Honda Prelude in December of 1999, and it is the very same car I still drive today, albeit with 201,000 miles..... and still in pretty darn good shape.

Having said all that, I have been doing serious homework and reading alot of what Scott and the other Camaro core team engineers have been doining reguards to the design, assembly, and engineering of this new Camaro. Just as many of you have been. I have also been paying very close attention to GM's other newest cars - the Malibu, CTS, and G8.

Today, GM is doing a damn good job at out-importing the imports. High quality interior plastics, some of the tightest panel gaps I've ever seen on a car made by anyone (both interior and exterior body panels), superior chasis engineering so the car feels like one solid hunk of metal instead of a bag of bolts. This is what I see on 2007 and 2008 GM cars, and it's not what I've seen from their older cars. My Mom's 2007 Lucerne is Audi-like when you shut the doors and drive over bumps, and it puts her 1998 LeSabre that she traded from to absolute shame. Even she noticed and she is not a car enthusiast like most of us here.

GM is doing exactly what I said they needed to do 10 years ago, which is emulate Japan and Germany in quality and refinement, only do it better and with American style. I would have loved to buy a Camaro 10 years ago if when I pressed on the dashboard plastic it didn't bow in, or when I pulled on the headliner it didn't almost come all the way off. To be honest, I was a bit put off by American cars and actually very sad that to me, America couldn't build a car as good or better than Japan or Germany. I have always said I'd buy an American car if it were as good as my Honda.

Well, today, I do have faith in GM in ways I never could have imagined 10 years ago. See, I think I'm the person GM needs to win back..... the person who essentially swore off American cars completely, and vowed never to buy one again. But I guess the problem GM must overcome is those who don't pay attention to the entire car world with an open mind. I always, always, always rooted for and insisted that GM make better cars. And I swore if they did one day I would go back to them.

In an ironic twist of fate, not only have they improved their overall quality and reliability exponentailly over the last 10 years, but the culmination of it all is going into the car I was originally going to buy, opted not to, and then saw it discontinued with thoughts I never would be able to anyway.

Yes, I love the Camaro for what the Camaro is. But for me, it's more than just the return of the Camaro. It's GM as a whole, better quality, better reliability, and attention to details that they never had before.

They've won me back, and I really hope many more of the folks who've jumped to Honda, Toyota, and BMW and MB over the years give GM a good, close, hard look and pay attention to what they are doing.

So, no, I'm not worried about reliability. Besides, both the 3.6 and LS3 are rated among the best engines in the automotive world.
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Old 10-14-2008, 11:18 PM   #13
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123,000 miles on my 4th gen and the only thing I ever had go wrong was passenger side cat went bad, got it replaced under warranty then decided to go with kooks headers w/ no cats. I've never owned a car with a better record then my Chevy and that includes my nissan which I purchased for the same reasons you keep buying forign.....reliability
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Old 10-14-2008, 11:33 PM   #14
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See now its people that put american made cars down that really get me mad...I understand that there was a point where you bought a chevy which looked like a cadillac which looked like a oldsmobile which looked like a pontiac, but that was a loooooonnnngggg time ago and this is no longer an issue. My family has always bought domestics, and the day I buy an imported car is the day I die (I guess my father taught me well), and there has never been any issues other than self inflicted problems (blew a tranny because we left the tranny cooler lines disconnected when we changed a radiator (at 130,000 miles) oops)...but I will end this rant with one point, GM is able to produce vehicles for lower MSRP's than the competition, with greater performance (show me a car that can take on the new ZR1 for a fraction of the price), and with the advances they have made (magnetic ride suspension, standard tremec MT6, the chevy volt, cts-v the list is endless) and all I'm trying to say is GM has gotten a bad name and it is complete bull...give me a GM over ANY car ANYDAY...

sorry rant over
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Old 10-14-2008, 11:35 PM   #15
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Maybe it's just me, but length of warranty/miles doesn't make me think AT ALL that a company has a more reliable car, quite the opposite actually. Instead of making a better quality car to begin with they cut corners to make a cheap car and will just spend the money throwing cheap replacement parts at it for longer.

Personally, I've never had a problem with any of the Chevy vehicles, or any american cars I've owned for that matter. But every company has the occasional lemon roll out the factory...
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Old 10-14-2008, 11:50 PM   #16
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I have found that regardless of the car...the big R as in Reliability depends entirely upon the big O as in the OWNER.

Maintenance, Maintenance, Maintenance. People in today's world expect that all they have to do is change the oil and rotate tires and the car will last forever. This view on vehicle maintenance is why practically no cars last until 200k NOT the build quality or the materials.
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Old 10-14-2008, 11:57 PM   #17
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GM reliability has been on par with imports for years now. And as far as quality, they've come very far in the last few years. The Malibu, CTS and G8 are great examples of American market GM vehicles with great quality interior as well as great exterior.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:09 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exilio View Post
For years I have only bought foreign cars.
You (and other people like you) are the problem. Do not buy a Camry or Accord - buy a Malibu instead. Do not buy a BMW 3-series coupe - buy a Camaro instead. Do not buy a Porsche Boxster - buy a Corvette instead.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:26 AM   #19
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Really didn't even cross my mind ever. I've owned over 15 cars, and while probably my least reliable was my rotted out 86 K5 Blazer or my beat to hell 86 IROC, my most reliable was my 1986 Regal Limited with 270k miles on it (damn I miss that car), followed closely by my 99 TA with 100k, 91 Firebird with 176k, 00 Vette with 85k... I could keep going. I had an 86 Camaro V6 that looked like someone plowed into a tree with it last 4 years and about 70,000 miles before i sold it to some stupid kid who proceeded to kill it.

The only low mileage GM car I had was pretty unreliable, my 89 Turbo Trans Am, with only 28k original miles... unfortunately 28k is a WHOLE LOTTA passes down the 1/4 mile drag strip (hence unreliable).

I have a 93 VW Fox beater with only 115k to get me around now, and its a complete piece of shit compared to the 92 Sunbird (135k) it replaced, that was killed in a flood :(
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:27 AM   #20
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I had a 1969 Camaro and later 1978 Trans Am. I loved them to death.

I ordered a new 1984 Camaro Z28, was the biggest POS ever imagined. Bought a Toyota Supra Turbo (worked at a Chevy dealer at the time), and loved it.

25 years later, I saw the Camaro and flashed back to 1969. Only my flashback was a light BLUE Camaro.

I'm trying again. I ordered a 2009 Corvette. This car was absolutely flawless. Assembly quality as good as any car from anywhere. Jetstream Blue paint with show quality. Runs like a bat out of hell!

Now, if you check Corvette Forum, you'll see more issues with long-term reliability than on an Infiniti forum. But I can't drive low torque vehicles any longer. And I love the styling of the Corvette and new Camaro.

So, if you want possible long-term perfection - buy Japenese.

If you want to get out of your car laughing, buy the Camaro.

Camaro's Oshawa Plant has won numerous awards for quality. JD Power, etc, etc.

I know, I was worried too. Not anymore.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:32 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diarmadhi View Post
I have found that regardless of the car...the big R as in Reliability depends entirely upon the big O as in the OWNER.

Maintenance, Maintenance, Maintenance. People in today's world expect that all they have to do is change the oil and rotate tires and the car will last forever. This view on vehicle maintenance is why practically no cars last until 200k NOT the build quality or the materials.
+1,000,000 internets......

especially people who drive like they are racing all the time....if you DRIVE it like a race car, you need MAINTAINENCE like a race car.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:34 AM   #22
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I drive a 1995 Z28, it has 185,000 miles on it. I got it when I was 16 and drove the hell out of it ever since, and it still runs great, I can't kill it! so no the big "R" is not an issue with me when it comes to GM.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:45 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headpunter View Post
+1,000,000 internets......

especially people who drive like they are racing all the time....if you DRIVE it like a race car, you need MAINTAINENCE like a race car.
Very true.
The saying "don't drive your racer, and don't race your daily driver" is a good bit of advice.
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:20 AM   #24
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GM has a longer warranty than any import. I have an 03 Avalanche with 140K miles, still using the original brake pads. Only issue is a door switch the kid spilled a drink into. My 01 Z28 has 104K miles on it. No major problems. My 96 S-10 is still going strong with 160K on it. Yes...the late 70s and 80s GM kinda sucked in the reliability and design area and the imports were better in economy, reliability and price. But that changed almost 15-20 years ago but people are still clinging to it for some reason. Modern GM vehicles are way better than they were back then in all areas. Most models look better, have better reliability, better warranty and get better fuel economy than the imports of the same class.
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:26 AM   #25
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NOPE. Not at all. GM has taken their time on this car, and seeing it in Indy proved to me that the car is well built.
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