Plasma rocket = 40 day trip to Mars

[Brokinarrow]

Just caught this article on MSNBC, and ooooh my god I am geekin out over it now!!!

An innovative plasma rocket being built as a spare for one heading to the International Space Station may have a space mission of its own: visiting an asteroid.

Equipped with an electric propulsion system, the rocket, known as Variable Specific Impulse Magnetoplasma Rocket (VASIMR), is being developed to one day transport astronauts to Mars in 39 to 45 days — a fraction of the six to nine months the trip would take with conventional chemical rockets. Shorter travel time greatly reduces astronauts' exposure to potentially deadly cosmic and solar radiation, currently a show-stopper for human missions to Mars.

Setting sail for an asteroid would be a powerful demonstration of VASIMR technology, which uses radio waves to ionize propellant — such as argon, xenon or hydrogen — and heat the resulting plasma to temperatures 20 times hotter than the surface of the sun. In place of metal nozzles to control the direction of the exhaust, VASIMR uses magnetic fields.
"All of a sudden, the future is here," said VASIMR inventor and physicist Franklin Chang-Diaz, a seven-time shuttle flier who left NASA in 2005 to start a company and work full time developing the rocket.

Chang Diaz's Houston-based Ad Astra Rocket Co., which has raised millions of dollars from private investors, reached a significant milestone last year when it successfully operated a demonstrator VASIMR at full power in a vacuum chamber.

"The engine is actually firing right now," Chang-Diaz told Discovery News. "We have lots of hurdles and challenges; we have lots of work to do. But if you look at what has happened in the last five years since we left NASA, it's been amazing."

Ad Astra plans to launch its flight version VASIMR to the space station in 2014. As a backup, Chang-Diaz intends to manufacture two engines in case a launch accident or other major problem prevents the first from reaching the outpost.


Once the engine is safely installed outside the station, the spare could be tapped for a new mission — that did not require investment by NASA.

"I had this idea that maybe there's a way we can use this backup engine that he's already building," said Rob Kelso, a former shuttle flight director at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston now working to build innovative partnerships between NASA and commercial firms.

While the space station's VASIMR can draw power from the outpost, a free-flying engine will need its own source. As part of the proposed asteroid mission, NASA and Ad Astra would team with the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency to use its super-efficient, 200-kilowatt solar array currently under development.

Once the rocket reached its target asteroid, the power would be available to operate science equipment and other gear.

"You could do an extraordinary mission," Chang-Diaz said. "You don't need the power system for the rocket. Once you're there, you turn off the engine and you have 200 kilowatts to do anything you want to do. You can do all kinds of unheard of things with that level of power."

In addition to radar mapping and surveys, the mission also could pick up a sample from the asteroid and return it to Earth. Scientists are interested in learning more about where asteroids came from, how they formed and whether they carry the ingredients for life. On a practical level, learning how asteroids are structured would be useful in case one is discovered to be on a collision course with Earth and needs to be moved.
The mission also fits with the new direction President Barack Obama has outlined for NASA. Obama wants to cancel the return-to-the-moon program NASA had been developing and instead spend money on producing and testing new technologies for deep space exploration. During a speech at Kennedy Space Center earlier this month, Obama specifically called for a human mission to an asteroid by 2025.

The VASIMR asteroid mission is among several proposals currently being assessed by a NASA study team. If selected, the mission could fly somewhere around 2017, Kelso said.

This seriously has huge potential to revolutionize space travel! Or at the very least, they can start putting these things on satellites and the costs of keeping them in orbit will drop dramatically! Cheaper satellite TV people!!!!


Seriously though, I can't get my imagination to quit thinking about all the possible way this can be used....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36942268...science-space/

[CamaroSpike23]

whoa... to say the least

[Kyle2k]

Holy crap, I read this post when you initially posted it, but wow no one replied...this is huge stuff guys...the Camaro could well be in space by the time we die haha!

[2010 SSRS]

wow

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

Holy crap, I read this post when you initially posted it, but wow no one replied...this is huge stuff guys...the Camaro could well be in space by the time we die haha!

I mean, to think, these engines are capable of these speeds on their 1st generation!! Imagine the 2nd gen after some refinements and boosts in power - cut the travel time to Mars to 7 days!! And you know what isn't too far away from Mars? Asteroid belt! Helllooooo mining operations! I know what my first target would be: Eros http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/401227.stm

[DGthe3]

Another application could be deflection of killer asteroids. I think there is one that is known to have a small chance of hitting us within a couple decades (vs a minuscule chance of hitting us within a century). I sat fly out, land, and shift its trajectory by half a degree so that it can't hit the Earth. Unless we want to send Bruce Willis, a bunch of roughnecks, and a nuke instead ...

[2001ragtop]

I hope the private sector uses the new rocket to fly to the moon and back just for practice runs.

[Big Brunsy]

The aliens are gonna come shut the program down....can't have us earthlings wandering around out in space....we might actually find something.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Another application could be deflection of killer asteroids. I think there is one that is known to have a small chance of hitting us within a couple decades (vs a minuscule chance of hitting us within a century). I sat fly out, land, and shift its trajectory by half a degree so that it can't hit the Earth. Unless we want to send Bruce Willis, a bunch of roughnecks, and a nuke instead ...

Or shift it just enough to put in a stable orbit and mine that puppy! If there's anything useful on it anyway...

[PQ]

Originally Posted by 2001ragtop

I hope the private sector uses the new rocket to fly to the moon and back just for practice runs.

And beyond.

[2001ragtop]

Originally Posted by Big Brunsy

The aliens are gonna come shut the program down....can't have us earthlings wandering around out in space....we might actually find something.

astronaut edgar mitchell would probably agree with that.

it wouldn't surprise me if we are quarantined here and can't leave. it would explain a lot.

[5thGenOwner]

"...Franklin Chang-Diaz, a seven-time shuttle flier who left NASA in 2005 to start a company and work full time developing the rocket."

Doesn't anyone else find that interesting? He left NASA to develop a rocket. Further evidence that the private sector is the way FORWARD!

Originally Posted by 2001ragtop

I hope the private sector uses the new rocket to fly to the moon and back just for practice runs.

[ron10]

wonder what that baby will do in the 1/4.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by 5thGenOwner

"...Franklin Chang-Diaz, a seven-time shuttle flier who left NASA in 2005 to start a company and work full time developing the rocket."

Doesn't anyone else find that interesting? He left NASA to develop a rocket. Further evidence that the private sector is the way FORWARD!

[Kyle2k]

While I understand the higher level of efficiency and innovation the private sector provides, I have no real faith in it to get things done when no or only a small profit margin is present.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

While I understand the higher level of efficiency and innovation the private sector provides, I have no real faith in it to get things done when no or only a small profit margin is present.

Hence the mining operations on asteroids/ the moon. That wasn't a joke There definitely IS some real money to be made by harvesting precious minerals and metals off of those things. I agree with you though, if there isn't enough money in it the private sector won't thrive. Which is exactly why we need to find a significantly cheaper way to get IN to space.

[DGthe3]

Hate to break it to you guys but space mining is a distant dream. Lets say an operation could bring back 5 tons of pure gold (the largest mine in the world only produces about 60 tons a year). That would be worth a little less than $200M today. That is a very large payload and would be exceedingly difficult to actually produce. But lets assume it is possible for a space mine. Thing is, mining equipment breaks. That means mechanics and technicians need to be on site, with replacement parts. And if you send a mining crew, you will also need people to support them (such as a doctor for when people 'break'). All these people need to be fed and watered for several months. The weight of the stuff required to keep people living that long in a hostile environment with no resupply will be huge, and that is on top of the weight of the spacecraft and mining equipment. It wouldn't be possible to return a shipment for more money than it cost to send the spacecraft, crew, and equipment up in the first place, let alone paying for all the stuff to be made or the crew to be paid. And what if it blows up on the launch pad or crashes into the asteroid or breaks up upon re-entry? All that money gets wasted.

Launch costs need to go down, precious metals need to go up, and spaceflight needs to become safer before the possibility of space mining becomes realistic. In the meantime, lets setup lunar and martian research stations and learn how to live beyond the Earth. Besides, by the time mining asteroids becomes viable, it will probably be more economical to mine municipal garbage dumps and tailing pits from old mines.

[RJBJFIRE]

Works for me... Wish I could come up with this tech...

[AlSuwaidi]

nie read!!

[2001ragtop]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

....Hate to break it to you guys but space mining is a distant dream.....

There is a movie that came out in theaters in 2009 called "Moon" starring Sam Rockwell.

In this movie, he's an astronaut stationed on the moon. he is alone, and robots are mining the moon for Helium-3. The story is based in the "not so distant" future.

The way he sends back what was mined on the moon, is he sends back a payload inside something that looks like a torpedo, back towards earth. (like a small rocket with a payload).

From this perspective, I think mining is possible. In the movie, they do make it look like it is not that easy to travel to the moon, though they can do it. Which is one reason I believe he is stationed there alone.
This was a great movie. It is a mystery type movie. I would recommend to anyone who likes science fiction. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/

Lastly: Advanced Technology falls into our hands on a daily basis. We will be out in space soon enough.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Hate to break it to you guys but space mining is a distant dream. Lets say an operation could bring back 5 tons of pure gold (the largest mine in the world only produces about 60 tons a year). That would be worth a little less than $200M today. That is a very large payload and would be exceedingly difficult to actually produce. But lets assume it is possible for a space mine. Thing is, mining equipment breaks. That means mechanics and technicians need to be on site, with replacement parts. And if you send a mining crew, you will also need people to support them (such as a doctor for when people 'break'). All these people need to be fed and watered for several months. The weight of the stuff required to keep people living that long in a hostile environment with no resupply will be huge, and that is on top of the weight of the spacecraft and mining equipment. It wouldn't be possible to return a shipment for more money than it cost to send the spacecraft, crew, and equipment up in the first place, let alone paying for all the stuff to be made or the crew to be paid. And what if it blows up on the launch pad or crashes into the asteroid or breaks up upon re-entry? All that money gets wasted.

Launch costs need to go down, precious metals need to go up, and spaceflight needs to become safer before the possibility of space mining becomes realistic. In the meantime, lets setup lunar and martian research stations and learn how to live beyond the Earth. Besides, by the time mining asteroids becomes viable, it will probably be more economical to mine municipal garbage dumps and tailing pits from old mines.

That's the big one, if we can get launch costs down to a very minimal level space travel will explode. You make valid points, but I will still dream of it Another thing we need to look into is a controlled descent so we don't have to worry as much about large weighty heat shields on our craft. Of course for a quick and easy option, the ships could remain in space and drop the cargo pods for reentry. Then the ship drops by a space station and picks up more cargo pods and heads back to it.

[Buelligun]

Hadn't man better go to the moon first?

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Hate to break it to you guys but space mining is a distant dream. Lets say an operation could bring back 5 tons of pure gold (the largest mine in the world only produces about 60 tons a year). That would be worth a little less than $200M today. That is a very large payload and would be exceedingly difficult to actually produce. But lets assume it is possible for a space mine. Thing is, mining equipment breaks. That means mechanics and technicians need to be on site, with replacement parts. And if you send a mining crew, you will also need people to support them (such as a doctor for when people 'break'). All these people need to be fed and watered for several months. The weight of the stuff required to keep people living that long in a hostile environment with no resupply will be huge, and that is on top of the weight of the spacecraft and mining equipment. It wouldn't be possible to return a shipment for more money than it cost to send the spacecraft, crew, and equipment up in the first place, let alone paying for all the stuff to be made or the crew to be paid. And what if it blows up on the launch pad or crashes into the asteroid or breaks up upon re-entry? All that money gets wasted.

Launch costs need to go down, precious metals need to go up, and spaceflight needs to become safer before the possibility of space mining becomes realistic. In the meantime, lets setup lunar and martian research stations and learn how to live beyond the Earth. Besides, by the time mining asteroids becomes viable, it will probably be more economical to mine municipal garbage dumps and tailing pits from old mines.

Agreed, on everything, but gold would be one of the least mined material on most asteroids. Rhodium, platinum and others would be much more profitable. Anyway, mining isn't really logical and that's neither here nor there. We need to research terraforming, null-g experiments, etc. Because the general public isn't interested in, and frankly doesn't understand the importance of, the developments that could be made, inter-planetary travel doesn't get the attention it should. It's sad.

Originally Posted by Brokinarrow

That's the big one, if we can get launch costs down to a very minimal level space travel will explode. You make valid points, but I will still dream of it Another thing we need to look into is a controlled descent so we don't have to worry as much about large weighty heat shields on our craft. Of course for a quick and easy option, the ships could remain in space and drop the cargo pods for reentry. Then the ship drops by a space station and picks up more cargo pods and heads back to it.

We need the carbon elevator. Time to invest in Zoltek

[Big Brunsy]

I would assume if....I mean WHEN we have space ships capeable of traveling our galaxy we would have a space port where our ships are built, and docked. then you wouldn't need the excessive propultion to break Earth's gravity. Then they would have smaller lander ships to visit other planets.

We just need to find us some Eezo

[dmiller66]

Originally Posted by Buelligun

Hadn't man better go to the moon first?

Haha...my thoughts exactly. We could also use this new rocket technology to fend off attacking zombies!