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Old 05-10-2010, 09:58 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by 06MonteSS View Post
of COURSE you do... As soon as I made my post, I fully expected you to say you use it... heh... but it's still crap gas... have seen a lot of knock retard CONSISTENTLY in data logs over and over and over.... so in that respect, yes, it is consistent...

here's just one of many many many many threads from others that had issues with shell gas... read here starting with this post:

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6794379
I'm surprised you aren't talking about how it's impossible to pass readiness checks with no rear O2 sensors installed on a car.

I run lots of timing in my LS7 on Shell 93, and never get a trace of knock. Same deal with every other milled heads/huge cam LSx I do around here.
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:48 PM   #16
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Shell is the only place to get 93 near me
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:51 AM   #17
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I'm running Conoco out here in Colorado. 06MonteSS did my tune and he didn't mention any issue with KR. Only get 91 out here. Onl 1 station has 93 and it's a little mom n pop store. I'd have to ask where they get thiers from.
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:02 AM   #18
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When tuning we can tell if a customer is running Shell gas very easily. We recommend and use BP 93 in all of our stuff without any issues.
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:04 AM   #19
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It must vary from region to region, because in St. Louis, Shell has been the most consistent and least likely to ping.
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:58 PM   #20
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It must vary from region to region, because in St. Louis, Shell has been the most consistent and least likely to ping.
There is a Shell walking distance from our R&D facility here.

It is very common for customers to fill up there on their way to drop off a vehicle for Beta testing, and we have gotten really good at draining the tank as a result.

One of these cars was a 2007 Vette. Bone stock. Threw it on the dyno to baseline it, and the pull sounded terrible. Checked the log, tons of KR everywhere from the moment we went WOT.

Cooled it off, tried again, still knocking. Took it for a little spin up 95, drained most of the fresh Shell, and ran it over to the Mobil around the corner. 10 minutes later the car was up 20 rwhp (back to where it should have been), and it responded positively to more timing once we started tuning it.

Sure, it could be their tanks, or the local supply, but I always think it best to find a good brand locally, log the heck out of it, and never take for granted that it is 'good.'...
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Old 05-11-2010, 02:01 PM   #21
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Like I said, around St. Louis, Shell is the most forgiving as far as knock retard... Mobil is good too. Other places tend to end up knocking without changing anything else in the calibration.

The other problem is some stations of the same brand sell 91 at some locations, and 93 at others... yet people don't bother to check. There's all kinds of variability... but making a blanket statement that one brand sucks across the nation is extreme.
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:25 PM   #22
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no it's not... if it's bad in 95% of locations, why try to figure out exactly which 5% are ok and have to remember what state those good couple were in if you're ever driving through it... avoid 'em all, and you have no problems. there are better brands, better quality of gas around than shell, no matter where ya live...

it must be good just in your state then...

everyone else I've ever gotten data logs from, from all the other states they were in from around the U.S. (a LOT) - Shell gas was always, consistently, the cause of all their KR issues... once that crap was gone/out and replaced, everything was fine and back to normal...

and it's easy to tell when they've put in a tank of Shell during the tuning process as well... one time their data log will be fine, and then the next time, there will be a lot of KR in it... and I immediately know, and ask them, if they've put in Shell gas... and I get "holy shit, how'd you know that?!"... as FLP said above.. it's easy to tell when Shell is being used...
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:43 PM   #23
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:56 PM   #24
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RRRAAAGGGEEE!!!
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:18 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
Like I said, around St. Louis, Shell is the most forgiving as far as knock retard... Mobil is good too. Other places tend to end up knocking without changing anything else in the calibration.

The other problem is some stations of the same brand sell 91 at some locations, and 93 at others... yet people don't bother to check. There's all kinds of variability... but making a blanket statement that one brand sucks across the nation is extreme.
Blanket statements like that are amazing. No problems with Shell around my part of the world either.

Would it be just as fair to say it must be the tune vs. the fuel? That would be just as fair wouldn't it?
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:30 PM   #26
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That would be just as fair wouldn't it?
If you can get gas at every other local station, and get no KR, then go to one station and get KR, then NO, it is not the tune.

Maybe you missed my story about the STOCK tuned Vette that lost 20 rwhp due to KR as a result of poor quality fuel...was that GMs fault or the gas....?

Why is everyone so on edge around here all the time?
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:49 PM   #27
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If you can get gas at every other local station, and get no KR, then go to one station and get KR, then NO, it is not the tune.

Maybe you missed my story about the STOCK tuned Vette that lost 20 rwhp due to KR as a result of poor quality fuel...was that GMs fault or the gas....?

Why is everyone so on edge around here all the time?
I agree with what you are saying here as it isn't referencing a particular brand. Stations (even in the same brand) can have differing issues with fuel as their tanks can be compromised in some manner (water, rust, bad mixers, etc.). Saying that KR can cause a loss of HP is absolutely legitimate. What I had a problem with was the blanket statement that all Shell gas was bad.

I was simply trying to make a point (that blanket statements were not sensible) in mentioning a tune...talk about being on edge...
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:11 PM   #28
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I agree with what you are saying here as it isn't referencing a particular brand. Stations (even in the same brand) can have differing issues with fuel as their tanks can be compromised in some manner (water, rust, bad mixers, etc.). Saying that KR can cause a loss of HP is absolutely legitimate. What I had a problem with was the blanket statement that all Shell gas was bad.

I was simply trying to make a point (that blanket statements were not sensible) in mentioning a tune...talk about being on edge...
Agreed.

It is easy for Lew to make that statement, as he does lots of custom tunes, and see as many logs as anyone (I cringe to think about how many logs he goes through in a week).
It got to the point that we recommend Mobil or BP/Amoco to our customers just to try to avoid KR issues, since we have had issues with Shell all over the country. There are always a few people that have good luck with it though for sure.
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