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Tuning / Diagnostics -- engine and transmission Tune and diagnostics for engines and auto transmission.

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Old 05-11-2010, 04:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by GaryTucker View Post
That would be just as fair wouldn't it?
If you can get gas at every other local station, and get no KR, then go to one station and get KR, then NO, it is not the tune.

Maybe you missed my story about the STOCK tuned Vette that lost 20 rwhp due to KR as a result of poor quality fuel...was that GMs fault or the gas....?

Why is everyone so on edge around here all the time?
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:49 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport View Post
If you can get gas at every other local station, and get no KR, then go to one station and get KR, then NO, it is not the tune.

Maybe you missed my story about the STOCK tuned Vette that lost 20 rwhp due to KR as a result of poor quality fuel...was that GMs fault or the gas....?

Why is everyone so on edge around here all the time?
I agree with what you are saying here as it isn't referencing a particular brand. Stations (even in the same brand) can have differing issues with fuel as their tanks can be compromised in some manner (water, rust, bad mixers, etc.). Saying that KR can cause a loss of HP is absolutely legitimate. What I had a problem with was the blanket statement that all Shell gas was bad.

I was simply trying to make a point (that blanket statements were not sensible) in mentioning a tune...talk about being on edge...
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:11 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by GaryTucker View Post
I agree with what you are saying here as it isn't referencing a particular brand. Stations (even in the same brand) can have differing issues with fuel as their tanks can be compromised in some manner (water, rust, bad mixers, etc.). Saying that KR can cause a loss of HP is absolutely legitimate. What I had a problem with was the blanket statement that all Shell gas was bad.

I was simply trying to make a point (that blanket statements were not sensible) in mentioning a tune...talk about being on edge...
Agreed.

It is easy for Lew to make that statement, as he does lots of custom tunes, and see as many logs as anyone (I cringe to think about how many logs he goes through in a week).
It got to the point that we recommend Mobil or BP/Amoco to our customers just to try to avoid KR issues, since we have had issues with Shell all over the country. There are always a few people that have good luck with it though for sure.
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Old 05-11-2010, 08:50 PM   #29
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he's just trying to help guys. Easy, easy now! LOL ya'll need alcohol.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:28 PM   #30
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ok!

i tried the 93 tune with 91 octane... at WOT i got about 1.4 TKSR around 5500rpm, just a spike but showed up on multiple gears. plus when i was coasting, then pressed the gas a little i got 8.0 TKSR, and i think i kinda felt it bog down a bit. this is why i used to blend race fuel with each tank, to keep this from happening.

now i see the reason for both separate tunes... i had half a bottle of lucas octane booster from last year, so i put that in the tank with the tank half full... all is well and no more knock, i re-logged it to make sure!

lucas doesnt sell gimmicks, but i wouldn't recommend it for regular use (MMT will slowly destroy emissions system parts over time with repeated use)... for those with access to race fuel, blend that with the 91 octane. there are plenty of blending tables on the net to help you with what you can get

i only have 2 more months of this crap in OK until i return to TX where they like 93!!!
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:19 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by RedJewel2SS View Post
ok!

i tried the 93 tune with 91 octane... at WOT i got about 1.4 TKSR around 5500rpm, just a spike but showed up on multiple gears. plus when i was coasting, then pressed the gas a little i got 8.0 TKSR, and i think i kinda felt it bog down a bit. this is why i used to blend race fuel with each tank, to keep this from happening.

now i see the reason for both separate tunes... i had half a bottle of lucas octane booster from last year, so i put that in the tank with the tank half full... all is well and no more knock, i re-logged it to make sure!

lucas doesnt sell gimmicks, but i wouldn't recommend it for regular use (MMT will slowly destroy emissions system parts over time with repeated use)... for those with access to race fuel, blend that with the 91 octane. there are plenty of blending tables on the net to help you with what you can get

i only have 2 more months of this crap in OK until i return to TX where they like 93!!!

that's great to hear! but i thoght it said it will not harm 02 sensors? i just can't win.
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:44 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJewel2SS View Post
ok!

i tried the 93 tune with 91 octane... at WOT i got about 1.4 TKSR around 5500rpm, just a spike but showed up on multiple gears. plus when i was coasting, then pressed the gas a little i got 8.0 TKSR, and i think i kinda felt it bog down a bit. this is why i used to blend race fuel with each tank, to keep this from happening.

now i see the reason for both separate tunes... i had half a bottle of lucas octane booster from last year, so i put that in the tank with the tank half full... all is well and no more knock, i re-logged it to make sure!

lucas doesnt sell gimmicks, but i wouldn't recommend it for regular use (MMT will slowly destroy emissions system parts over time with repeated use)... for those with access to race fuel, blend that with the 91 octane. there are plenty of blending tables on the net to help you with what you can get

i only have 2 more months of this crap in OK until i return to TX where they like 93!!!
I never get concerned with KR if it's under 2º total taken out, because a) you won't feel it and b) it can typically be attributed to noise (something hitting the engine/exhaust, valve train noise, etc). The 8º taken out when giving throttle after coasting is possibly burst knock, and even C16 won't stop that from happening. There's a different between knock retard and burst knock retard. Knock retard is a result of actual knock events, and is a reactive solution. Burst knock retard is a proactive solution that pulls timing out during extreme engine load changes (read: steep throttle changes) in anticipation of knock.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:41 AM   #33
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In regards to gasoline quality? Most brands are merely additive packages as the base fuel is taken from the same storage tank as any one else's most of the time and in most places.

Sometimes fuel brands hit the additive correctly and sometimes they miss. Sometimes it's a region by region issue.

Where it's allowed, ethanol percentage can whack the optimum AFR on a brand by brand basis. When gas is cheaper, the ethanol percentage usually falls under the "legal" limits allowed but when gas gets high enough, it's a Forrest Gump box of Choc'lets deal.. Ethanol is not big on MPG, but if you can reliably tune for a fixed amount, you can roll with the octane boost. Unfortunately, it's a moving target where allowed.
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:14 AM   #34
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Hey Monte 92 octane??

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Originally Posted by 06MonteSS View Post
did you ever log the total knock spark retard? I bet you were getting a lot of KR with the shell... so that's why the chevron feels even better that that did... and the lucas stuff is raising your octane from 91 to about 94.6... so if you're going to use it all the time, then you'd be ok to run the diablo 93 tune in the car...


and like I replied to your PM... Shell gas is crap... causes a lot of KR... have seen it in every single log from people that used shell in their vehicles, and can tell when they've switched from a good gas to Shell too - cuz all of a sudden, there will be a bunch of KR in their data...

you want to use mobil, exxon, sunoco, amoco, bp, or chevron... those are good fuels that tend to yield the best results...

also... go back to stock/original for a few days.. then install the 91 tune... you'll notice a difference compared to stock... not as much as the diablo/93 tune, but there's still a difference.
I ordered a prediter, will be here tomorrow. What tune do you use with 92???? I keep hearing about 91 and 93. We have 92 in Oregon
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Old 05-14-2010, 07:11 AM   #35
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I ordered a prediter, will be here tomorrow. What tune do you use with 92???? I keep hearing about 91 and 93. We have 92 in Oregon
install the Diablo Tune (which is the 93 octane tune), then just monitor/log for any knock retard... and use GOOD gas!
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:41 AM   #36
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I ordered a prediter, will be here tomorrow. What tune do you use with 92???? I keep hearing about 91 and 93. We have 92 in Oregon

yea seeing how little knock i got at WOT when testing 91 fuel with the 93 tune, i bet 92 octane will have minimal knock if any.

when you log at WOT, if you see any TKSR above 1 degree on the log, go into modify tune on the predator and remove 1 degree of "spark advance" and repeat until you get no TKSR. "there is only a 2-3 degrees difference in the 91 and 93 octane tune" (quote: 06MonteSS)

keep in mind you will see something when shifting so watch the log and make sure the knock you are recording is not at a shift point which is normal
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:46 AM   #37
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that's great to hear! but i thoght it said it will not harm 02 sensors? i just can't win.
it won't if you use it on track days only, but MMT which most octane boosters use to "boost" your octane will in fact damage emissions parts with regular use and in higher concentrations. it has been tested and proven.

the only way to get Lucas octane booster to work effectively is to use 1oz. per gallon of fuel which is just slightly more concentrated than their minimal requirement of one 16oz. bottle per 25 gals of fuel.
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:48 AM   #38
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I never get concerned with KR if it's under 2º total taken out, because a) you won't feel it and b) it can typically be attributed to noise (something hitting the engine/exhaust, valve train noise, etc). The 8º taken out when giving throttle after coasting is possibly burst knock, and even C16 won't stop that from happening. There's a different between knock retard and burst knock retard. Knock retard is a result of actual knock events, and is a reactive solution. Burst knock retard is a proactive solution that pulls timing out during extreme engine load changes (read: steep throttle changes) in anticipation of knock.
i'll agree with ya, but i never saw any "burst retard" before when using the correct fuel grade with it's matching tune.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:00 AM   #39
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i'll agree with ya, but i never saw any "burst retard" before when using the correct fuel grade with it's matching tune.
Log Burst Knock Retard and Total Knock Retard, and you'll see a difference. Burst Knock Retard has absolutely, positively, without a doubt NOTHING to do with the gas. You could run C16 or 87, and the same throttle transitions will cause the same amount of burst knock retard.

Look above where you were talking about knock on a shift... That's burst knock retard.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:09 AM   #40
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Log Burst Knock Retard and Total Knock Retard, and you'll see a difference. Burst Knock Retard has absolutely, positively, without a doubt NOTHING to do with the gas. You could run C16 or 87, and the same throttle transitions will cause the same amount of burst knock retard.

Look above where you were talking about knock on a shift... That's burst knock retard.
correct ^ ^ ^
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