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Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 05-09-2010, 07:03 PM   #1
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104 octane in a bottle

Just curious about this stuff.
Is there any real benefit to using this? I know the SSs are built to run 93 octane but if this is used would the extra octane hurt anything?
Just to let you know,the car goes in for headers and a dyno tune in June so if this stuff was used I could have the car tuned accordingly. Also,it sees very little use,maybe 500 miles to 1000 miles a year so I am not worried about the extra added expense of putting it in every tank full..
These are just questions I am asking out of curiosity,I do not have it in my head to run out and buy this stuff. Thanks for everyones comments.
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:27 AM   #2
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Mostly snake oil; will provide a minor amount of octane boost, maybe 0.4 above your gasoline octane rating.
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:03 AM   #3
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It only does anything if your getting spark knock. So if your not getting sparK knock, it's a waste of money.

I wouldn't use it prior to tuning either, because you want to tune for whatever gas you will be normally using. If you have 93 octane in the area and a near stock LS3, should have no need to use octane booster.

Most of the octane boosters work pretty good. I use to have an 11 to 1 CR 468 BBC in a street strip bracket car. On 93 it would spark knock. With a couple bottles of 104+ in there it would not knock, and I could bump the timing up.
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:16 AM   #4
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this is a way to spend money for nothing.
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:12 AM   #5
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this is a way to spend money for nothing.

Yup. That stuff is crap. Unless you want to buy it by the pallet. At which case, you're better off going to the gas station and filling up 100 unleaded.
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:26 PM   #6
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:46 PM   #7
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I'm not so sure the stuff is worthless. I've purchased several bottles of different brands and my butt dyno could tell the difference--even with the cheap stuff that's less than $2 a bottle. We can only get 91 octane here, but at 4,500' above sea level that's generally all we need. I'm not claiming you would see a substantial, or even measurable, timing increase on a dyno, but there's one way to find out...
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Old 05-10-2010, 04:37 PM   #8
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Waste of money if you're just putting one bottle in there. I don't know how much is in the bottle, but let's just say 16 fl. oz. That's 1/8, or .125 of a gallon.

So let's say you fill your tank up with 18 gallons of 93 octane. Then you put 16 oz of 104 octane in there.

That 16 fl oz is .00694, or 0.694% of the total volume. So 99.306% of your total fuel is 93 octane. Already it's easy to see that it's not going to make much of a difference.

93 octane x 99.306% = 92.355
104 octane x .694% = .722
92.355+.722 = 93.077 octane that you effectively end up with.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:10 PM   #9
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A fuel's Octane rating doesn't relate to the energy content of the fuel, just the resistance to pre-detonation. Stick to 91 or higher Octane and don't worry about the additives.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:16 PM   #10
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Just find a Sunoco around you that sells 100 octane, there's 2 around me that do
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:40 PM   #11
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keep in mind that when they say "we raise your octane 5 points" 10 points equals one octane rating so that 5 points changes your fuel from 91 to 91.5

only octane booster that works is Lucas, but if you can find race fuel, that is prefered... i blend 104 octane unleaded race fuel (sunoco gt240 plus) with 91 octane in an 11:2 ratio to effectively make a 93 octane blend.

check this out:
http://volvospeed.com/Reviews/octane_boosters.html
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papabearcamaro View Post
Just curious about this stuff.
Is there any real benefit to using this? I know the SSs are built to run 93 octane but if this is used would the extra octane hurt anything?
Just to let you know,the car goes in for headers and a dyno tune in June so if this stuff was used I could have the car tuned accordingly. Also,it sees very little use,maybe 500 miles to 1000 miles a year so I am not worried about the extra added expense of putting it in every tank full..
These are just questions I am asking out of curiosity,I do not have it in my head to run out and buy this stuff. Thanks for everyones comments.

Your car is designed around 93. The factory computer is pretty darn smart. It is extremely unlikely you would gain any NOTICEABLE change. If you were going FI or Nitrous then other fuel requirements come in to play. It basically consists of some petroleum distillates which may help with detonation, but that's about it.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My 5th View Post
I'm not so sure the stuff is worthless. I've purchased several bottles of different brands and my butt dyno could tell the difference--even with the cheap stuff that's less than $2 a bottle. We can only get 91 octane here, but at 4,500' above sea level that's generally all we need. I'm not claiming you would see a substantial, or even measurable, timing increase on a dyno, but there's one way to find out...
Well, then you butt-dyno needs to be recalibrated.

If you truly understood how many "octane" points you were actually gaining, you would see it is absolutely minimal/barely worth noting.

And another thing... octane DOES NOT equal horsepower. Octane is a measure of fuel's compression before it ignites. Too low of octane level cause knock due to the fuel igniting from compression and not spark. Your computer counteracts for this by reducing timing.

93 octane is sufficient for an L99 or LS3. Even at 91 you should be fine. Unless your area is plagued with shitty quality gas, there is no reason to seek out anything of higher octane. The only people needing higher octane on this forum are for members with A.) Forced induction B.) Certain Nitrous applications or C.) Built motors with higher CR.
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Old 05-11-2010, 08:59 AM   #14
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And another thing... octane DOES NOT equal horsepower. Octane is a measure of fuel's compression before it ignites. Too low of octane level cause knock due to the fuel igniting from compression and not spark. Your computer counteracts for this by reducing timing.
This is truth.

You guys and your "noticeable gains".

Good to know I could make millions selling bullshit in a bottle though when I'm ready to retire!
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:04 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
You guys and your "noticeable gains".

Good to know I could make millions selling bullshit in a bottle though when I'm ready to retire!
Exactly.

There are far too many people claiming these "noticeable gains" all over this forum with no basis except for the placebo effect happening in their heads. If you truly believe these gains are happening, but have no proof, please keep it to your self.

I am concerned with those that are not educated on certain subjects and who ask questions getting bad information.

As I have said before, the amount of misinformation on this forum is becoming very troubling.
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:09 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Well, then you butt-dyno needs to be recalibrated.

If you truly understood how many "octane" points you were actually gaining, you would see it is absolutely minimal/barely worth noting.

And another thing... octane DOES NOT equal horsepower. Octane is a measure of fuel's compression before it ignites. Too low of octane level cause knock due to the fuel igniting from compression and not spark. Your computer counteracts for this by reducing timing.

93 octane is sufficient for an L99 or LS3. Even at 91 you should be fine. Unless your area is plagued with shitty quality gas, there is no reason to seek out anything of higher octane. The only people needing higher octane on this forum are for members with A.) Forced induction B.) Certain Nitrous applications or C.) Built motors with higher CR.
No duh. I clearly stated my experience was subjective. I never claimed octane equals HP. Octane does however equal more timing advance which can (ceteras paribus) equal horsepower. I also clearly stated there is an objective way to find out if octane boosters work--run it on a dyno and see. With my 73 Corvette LT-1 with 11:1 compression I got almost equal performance with pump premium and water injection as I did from 110 aviation gas. The water didn't raise my octane rating, it prevented detonation. I would expect these cheapie octane boosters to do almost the same thing. Unless you can show me lab results that prove I'm hurting my engine or fuel system by using the stuff, if I want to have the subjective feeling of improved performance I'll use it. Just like you might think a muffler delete or anything that makes your car louder makes it faster.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
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No duh. I clearly stated my experience was subjective. I never claimed octane equals HP.
Those two statements contradict each other. You claim you feel it in your "butt dyno", yet you admit octane doesn't equal horsepower.

Quote:
Octane does however equal more timing advance which can (ceteras paribus) equal horsepower. I also clearly stated there is an objective way to find out if octane boosters work--run it on a dyno and see. With my 73 Corvette LT-1 with 11:1 compression I got almost equal performance with pump premium and water injection as I did from 110 aviation gas. The water didn't raise my octane rating, it prevented detonation. I would expect these cheapie octane boosters to do almost the same thing.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...son/index.html

There ya go. The article explains that essentially all the octane booster did (and mind you, this was done in a 2 gallon fuel cell, NOT a full gas tank) was help add a little RPM to the peak power range. This was also at 87 octane.

Now take a look at the 91 octane... oh yea, peak horsepower was actually REDUCED.

"indication that the fuel additive may have slowed the burn speed and reduced cylinder pressure"

And there you have it, as I stated in my first post.

Quote:
Unless you can show me lab results that prove I'm hurting my engine or fuel system by using the stuff, if I want to have the subjective feeling of improved performance I'll use it.
See above. Enjoy. You're not hurting your engine, you are actually helping to reduce some minor detonation (which would never occur on GM's ultra-conservative stock tuning) and you are actually losing some power.... How's that butt-dyno workin out for you?

Quote:
Just like you might think a muffler delete or anything that makes your car louder makes it faster.
No, I would never make foolish assumptions like that without educating myself.... unlike some people.
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:48 AM   #18
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Butt Dyno? Total BS...

More like Head Dyno. These products are crap. Raising your octane from 91 to 91.2 does nothing you can measure on a dyno, or with your butt.

The higher the octane, the less the amount of BTUs of energy released is during the burn. Increasing octane makes less power, unless you run more timing.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:55 PM   #19
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So subjective "feelings" and butt dynos mean nothing to you bunch of phd's? Why bother with any mod if you can't "feel" it? Did your muffler delete "feel" any faster? If it did indeed go faster with the muffler delete would you have done it if it didn't sound any better, but still went as fast? I didn't think so. Call it a placebo effect if you want, but if something makes me feel better about driving my SS, even if it's just floor mats, I'll get it. And I just know I can bolt on 50 more HP with that billet fuel door--something about aluminum ions, drag coeficient, and better fuel atomization.
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My 5th View Post
So subjective "feelings" and butt dynos mean nothing to you bunch of phd's? Why bother with any mod if you can't "feel" it? Did your muffler delete "feel" any faster? If it did indeed go faster with the muffler delete would you have done it if it didn't sound any better, but still went as fast? I didn't think so. Call it a placebo effect if you want, but if something makes me feel better about driving my SS, even if it's just floor mats, I'll get it. And I just know I can bolt on 50 more HP with that billet fuel door--something about aluminum ions, drag coeficient, and better fuel atomization.


That's not the point. Go ahead and live in your fantasy world if you want to. If you believe that new spark plugs just got you into the 10s, more power to you. Me personally, I have felt a "butt-dyno" difference once in my life. That was when I did the F13 cam, built valvetrain, Stage II heads, long tube headers and dyno tune all in one shot. I probably gained an easy 100-something horsepower, as it took me from my relatively stock LS1 to a 430+ RWHP machine. Even when I got a Hot Cam kit for my LT1 I thought, "hmmm... doesn't feel much different minus the sound and idle".

My point in all this is when car-modding newbs ask if a certain mod or adjustment is good, and a bunch of people who have no clue what they are talking about come in the thread with, "OH YA I FEEL IT IN MY BUTT DYNO, BIG POWER!" they are just furthering the ignorance and misinformation.

Go ahead, love your floor mats and your octane superdooperpowerbooster. I'm a realist when it comes to cars, and I like facts and proven research.

And as for the PhD reference, I will be the first to admit that I know virtually nothing when it comes to the automotive sciences compared to many automotive enthusiasts. But I do a lot of reading, and I ask a lot of questions. It is scary that this site is making me feel like a scientist.
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:47 PM   #21
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i have a custom 93 octane tune on my car.

i can only find 91 octane locally, so i blend 104 octane race fuel in every tank. race fuel is the only effective octane booster.

i recently tested how just the 91 octane reacted with my tune. i have a diablosport programmer and i logged a couple of WOT pulls. all pulls had 1.4 degrees of TKSR (total knock spark retard) around 5500rpm.

i had half a bottle of lucas octane booster from last fall, and half a tank of gas. i put it in, shook the car a bit, then let it sit for a day to mix around then drove a few miles the following day before re-logging. new logs showed NO TKSR. this wasn't my "butt dyno", however my 91 octane tune has a very noticable difference from the 93 octane tune. the 91 tune feels like it is holding back, whereas the 93 tune feels like a bat outta hell.

Lucas doesn't sell gimmicks! so for those with 91 locally, i would only suggest the Lucas octane booster for those occasional days at the track, but not for regular use. for regular use, blend unleaded race fuel with your local 91 premium.

http://volvospeed.com/Reviews/octane_boosters.html
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:11 PM   #22
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Just find a Sunoco around you that sells 100 octane, there's 2 around me that do
I wish I could....nobody around me sells anything above 93
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:15 PM   #23
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I wish I could....nobody around me sells anything above 93
drag strips carry race fuel. call your local track and see what they got.

that is where i buy mine locally! $8 per gallon for Sunoco 240gt plus (104 octane unleaded) thank god i only need 2 gallons for every 11 gallons of 91 octane fuel!
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:24 PM   #24
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I passed a Sunoco about 10 miles south of me that I didn't know was there, do you think the 100 octane would make a diff ? Or would the computor recalibrate ? I know the LS3 is 11:1 compression so I thought 100 octane would make a diff. I am no fuel engineer so I really don't know. Should I try 5 gallons and find out? Or am I just wasting $$$ ?
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:28 PM   #25
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1. I would never put anything in a plastic bottle in my gas.

2. Higher octane does nothing for you except prevent a complete fuel burn meaning less power unless your car requires it.

Higher octane means a higher flash point = slower burning fuel. If all you motor requires is 87 octane, running anything higher will result in less MPG and unspent fuel gumming up your ports and valves.
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