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Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 01-14-2008, 10:23 PM   #276
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BEAT YA TO IT! hehe sorry for the offtopic

I really think that the mpg is a huge factor in the whole muscle cars wars
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Old 01-14-2008, 10:23 PM   #277
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true, the thing im wondering is, why are these small blocks over 400hp, i mean, if someone wants less power theyre going to have to get the v6
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Old 01-14-2008, 10:52 PM   #278
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As far as the gas prices go, this page I found is very interesting. http://www.fintrend.com/inflation/im...tion_chart.htm

Basically, what it shows is that back in '69 durring the height of the original muscle car war, gasoline cost the equivalent of $2.00/gal. considering that modern muscle is getting at least two times (in some cases up to 4x) better mileage it is now just as cheap to fuel a new Mustang GT or Charger R/T in real economic terms as it did back then.
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Old 03-06-2008, 10:55 AM   #279
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The LS3 is in fact, extremely flexible!!! Check this out:

First,
Quote:
Our best baseline pull found the '08 to be good for 379.60 hp and 365.52 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels. Using a conservative 15 percent correction factor to compensate for driveline losses puts the LS3's flywheel numbers at 446.58/430.02, easily eclipsing the factory ratings of 436/424.
Seems GM may be up to their old games, again?

Then,
Quote:
With the 400 rwhp mark in sight, AntiVenom's Greg Lovell decided to do a little high-performance experimentation. First, he removed the stock intake tract in an attempt to roughly simulate the effects of an aftermarket induction system. Output jumped to 392.60/377.70, or 461.88/444.35 at the crank. His second tweak involved removing the LS3's accessory belt to approximate the benefits of an electric water pump. The results were stunning: 404.03/391.4 at the wheels, or 475.32/460.47 at the flywheel! Add a set of long-tube headers and a more aggressive PCM tune, and LS7-quality output seems well within reach.
http://www.vetteweb.com/features/vem...t_results.html

(^) There's my list of mods.
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Old 03-06-2008, 01:20 PM   #280
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Nothing would make my day more than to find out they are going to put the LS3 into a Camaro I can afford. I would drop as many option as I can just to get that motor.
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:05 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
The LS3 is in fact, extremely flexible!!! Check this out:

First,

Seems GM may be up to their old games, again?

Then,


(^) There's my list of mods.
ok i'm j/w so what does this mean?
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:12 PM   #282
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It means that via dyno testing, This mag (and quite a few others, too) found the LS3's ACTUAL power output to be ~10hp higher than what GM says it is. GM has a history of underrating their engines.

But that's not the big deal. It's how responsive the engine is to very minor modifications. This tester managed to hoax an extra ~30 hp with just an intake alteration and installing an electric water pump.

I think that's pretty impressive. It's also been said that the L76 (most likely engine for Camaro) is even more responsive to mods than this.
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:14 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCPOAJ View Post
ok i'm j/w so what does this mean?
it means that you can get almost as much power out of a LS3 as you can with a bone stock LS7, with just a few simple mods... and it also means that GM is still doing the same thing they did in the '60s: using random power ratings for their engines instead of listing actual peak power output.
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:18 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
It means that via dyno testing, This mag (and quite a few others, too) found the LS3's ACTUAL power output to be ~10hp higher than what GM says it is. GM has a history of underrating their engines.

But that's not the big deal. It's how responsive the engine is to very minor modifications. This tester managed to hoax an extra ~30 hp with just an intake alteration and installing an electric water pump.

I think that's pretty impressive. It's also been said that the L76 (most likely engine for Camaro) is even more responsive to mods than this.

oic i was just a lil confused but thanks for clearing it up the Cobalt ss supercharged is rated at 205 but guys with stock ones have made 245 whp
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:25 PM   #285
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I think that's pretty impressive. It's also been said that the L76 (most likely engine for Camaro) is even more responsive to mods than this.
Yeah, nearly 40 hp from 91 octane and a tune is pretty much the definition of responsive to mods. Understatement of the day.
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:26 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverTurtle View Post
...using random power ratings for their engines instead of listing actual peak power output.
Is it random?? I don't know...but I heard a whisper somewhere that they just take the measurement at a different rpm, instead of peak. (Maybe it was in a conversation about the 4thgens I heard that.)

There's also the SAE rating system, I think DGthe3 brought it up, that they don't show true ratings...but slightly less due to their process, or something like that.

Again...
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:32 PM   #287
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This is the reason also the reason why GM's specific output is so low, so that you have lots of room to build. Also, its why the chevy small block is such a legend. Its possibly the least expensive way to get a car with 500 hp.

As Dragoneye mentioned, there is also the SAE system of measuring power vs the regular way. Basically, the SAE system gives more accurate results because it uses warmer air at a slightly lower ambient pressure than the STP (Standard Temperature and Pressure) protocol that magazines tend to use. Therefore, the SAE test will give less power since the cars have less oxygen to burn, generally they give about 5% lower ratings from what I've read. But its closer to the real world, thats the official reason why they use it. However, it also means that the 430 hp LS3 is making something in the 450 range if it were to use the STP method. Also, the L76 would be around 380 hp.
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Last edited by DGthe3; 03-06-2008 at 02:44 PM. Reason: added stuff from about the SAE test system
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:50 PM   #288
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Quote:
With the 400 rwhp mark in sight, AntiVenom's Greg Lovell decided to do a little high-performance experimentation. First, he removed the stock intake tract in an attempt to roughly simulate the effects of an aftermarket induction system. Output jumped to 392.60/377.70, or 461.88/444.35 at the crank. His second tweak involved removing the LS3's accessory belt to approximate the benefits of an electric water pump. The results were stunning: 404.03/391.4 at the wheels, or 475.32/460.47 at the flywheel! Add a set of long-tube headers and a more aggressive PCM tune, and LS7-quality output seems well within reach.
http://www.vetteweb.com/features/vem...t_results.html

So, I have a question...For this example, let's aim low. Say 4th quarter of this year rolls around and we learn of the engine options and it happens to have the L76 as the base V8 (again, just for conversation's sake....and to aim low). It we were to do add an electric water pump...thus removing the engine's accessorybelt...roughly, how much would it cost to do that? Just an estimate is what I'm looking for (like with numbers from those of you who have done this or know someone who have done it). Those are really impressive numbers with those few mods. I would love to have 400 - 450 RWHP...I'm actually not conerned at all with having more. And I've pretty much just taken it as a given that I'm going to throw an intake, header set-up, and cat-back exhaust (unless GM gives us something reeeeally great from the factory...I'm not holding my breath ) on my Camaro.
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:55 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Is it random?? I don't know...but I heard a whisper somewhere that they just take the measurement at a different rpm, instead of peak. (Maybe it was in a conversation about the 4thgens I heard that.)

There's also the SAE rating system, I think DGthe3 brought it up, that they don't show true ratings...but slightly less due to their process, or something like that.

Again...

I understand GM did this with the L88 and ZL1 engines. They quoted HP from like 6500 RPMs (or whatever) when, in fact, peak power was achieved at higher RPMs and they were higher still.
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:56 PM   #290
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Meziere Electric Water Pump, Street Version, 1998-2002 LS1 F-body, 1997-2003 Corvette $639.99 (this is because you have to have a new water pump housing to make the electric pump work... after this initial investment, all you'll need is the motor itself, which is alot cheaper)
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Old 03-06-2008, 02:58 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega94 View Post
So, I have a question...For this example, let's aim low. Say 4th quarter of this year rolls around and we learn of the engine options and it happens to have the L76 as the base V8 (again, just for conversation's sake....and to aim low). It we were to do add an electric water pump...thus removing the engine's accessorybelt...roughly, how much would it cost to do that? Just an estimate is what I'm looking for (like with numbers from those of you who have done this or know someone who have done it). Those are really impressive numbers with those few mods. I would love to have 400 - 450 RWHP...I'm actually not conerned at all with having more. And I've pretty much just taken it as a given that I'm going to throw an intake, header set-up, and cat-back exhaust (unless GM gives us something reeeeally great from the factory...I'm not holding my breath ) on my Camaro.
I believe Meizere (sp?) has an LS1-style water pump for somewhere around $600. I'm not sure if it will work on Gen IV engines as I remember there was a design change some time ago, but that should give you a rough idea.

I think I'd like somewhere around the same RWHP as you and any more would just be
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:12 PM   #292
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Gah, all of this back and forth makes me just want GM to release a date that they will release details. Nothing more than a date for us to look forward to so that when threads like this come up I can just reply with

"Well, I guess we will know the answer on <insert date here>"
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Old 03-06-2008, 04:17 PM   #293
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I believe Meizere (sp?) has an LS1-style water pump for somewhere around $600. I'm not sure if it will work on Gen IV engines as I remember there was a design change some time ago, but that should give you a rough idea.

I think I'd like somewhere around the same RWHP as you and any more would just be
Thanks for the input guys!

And yeah 400 - 450 RWHP seems like it would be sufficient. For me, I don't need too much more than that...at least that's how I feel now
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Old 03-06-2008, 07:36 PM   #294
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Chevrolet also plans to offer the 1LE package (severe-duty components) for police and limited retail purchases
Any details on this? Police editions usualy include more HP, right? I have a friend that works at a ford dealership. He claims that you can get around 50 more Hp in an early "90's crown vic just by swaping in a ECM from a police car.
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Old 03-07-2008, 12:49 AM   #295
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Nah...no more info on that. In fact, I heard it wasn't in the plans. The only place I got that info from was the car mag....but who knows. Maybe GM will build something bone stock w/ beefier components for PD's to use...which we'd get to buy too?
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Old 03-07-2008, 10:06 AM   #296
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If my understanding is correct, there was not a power change in the law enforcement (B4C) or the track duty (1LE) models. I'm not sure if they were similar, but I know the 1LEs had suspension bushing changes and swaybar changes. I think the B4Cs were more-or-less strippers but don't know if they also incorperated the 1LE suspension changes. I'm sure power steering coolers were in both packages, and performance gear ratios for the automatics, but I never found any information on OEM external tranny or engine oil coolers. I believe all of these models only cam in hardtops only too.

I think it would be wise for GM to produce PD models to keep sales up. I mean look at Crown Vics'. These things have hardly changed in like ten-plus years! I don't think they'd still be around were it not for public service and fleet sales.
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