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Old 10-18-2008, 08:42 AM   #1
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Can you S/C an active fuel mgt engine?

When I was considering a new Challenger, I noticed that with the 5.7 (active fuel mgt system) supercharging is out. Now, researching the L99 vs the LS3, I see the L99 has afms. Can this type of engine be s/c?
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Old 10-18-2008, 09:15 AM   #2
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yes... since you're going to have to be in the computer system, anyway, to adjust your VE, fuel and spark tables, simply have the tuner turn that option off... this will, however, deactivate the AFM and you will be running on all 8 cylinders all of the time... but if you're adding a blower to a car, are you really worried about fuel economy?
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Old 10-18-2008, 09:50 AM   #3
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yes... since you're going to have to be in the computer system, anyway, to adjust your VE, fuel and spark tables, simply have the tuner turn that option off... this will, however, deactivate the AFM and you will be running on all 8 cylinders all of the time... but if you're adding a blower to a car, are you really worried about fuel economy?
turtle... you just told him yes.... then no.

he wants to know if you can still run a s/c without having to deactivate AFM.

im fairly certain you could, but it would take a donkey butload of tuning, and you'd probably need a BOV so you arent pumping 8 cyl worth of air into 4 cyl
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:34 AM   #4
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turtle... you just told him yes.... then no.

he wants to know if you can still run a s/c without having to deactivate AFM.

im fairly certain you could, but it would take a donkey butload of tuning, and you'd probably need a BOV so you arent pumping 8 cyl worth of air into 4 cyl
What is BOV?

I'm assuming AFM still runs air thru de-activated cylinders, but without fuel/compression/plug fire,...Is this correct? Haven't read up on it since I'll be going with LS3
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:58 AM   #5
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What is BOV?

I'm assuming AFM still runs air thru de-activated cylinders, but without fuel/compression/plug fire,...Is this correct? Haven't read up on it since I'll be going with LS3
BOV = Blow off valve.
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:14 AM   #6
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What is BOV?

I'm assuming AFM still runs air thru de-activated cylinders, but without fuel/compression/plug fire,...Is this correct? Haven't read up on it since I'll be going with LS3
Blow Off Valve


nope, the cylinders keep pumping, but the intake and exhaust valves are shut down along with the fuel to those cylinders.

keeping the air still in there allows for the compression to help push the pistons back down so it isnt just getting force from one side and free spinning on the other. it just doesnt fire the spark, it just keeps compressing and expanding the air thats in there already
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Old 10-18-2008, 11:59 AM   #7
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Blow Off Valve


nope, the cylinders keep pumping, but the intake and exhaust valves are shut down along with the fuel to those cylinders.

keeping the air still in there allows for the compression to help push the pistons back down so it isnt just getting force from one side and free spinning on the other. it just doesnt fire the spark, it just keeps compressing and expanding the air thats in there already
Gotcha...What signals (conditions) does the computer use to activate AFM mode? Intake vacuum? speed vs. throttle position? etc.
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Old 10-18-2008, 12:07 PM   #8
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Gotcha...What signals (conditions) does the computer use to activate AFM mode? Intake vacuum? speed vs. throttle position? etc.
that and load on the motor. AFM is only activated during periods of low load on the motor, like cruising
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Old 10-18-2008, 02:14 PM   #9
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that and load on the motor. AFM is only activated during periods of low load on the motor, like cruising
OK I'm with ya. I don't think a BOV would work, when AFM condition is met, 4 cylinders deactivate, blower goes from 3lb to 6, BOV opens, reduces pressure to an unpredictable pressure. Unless there was a way to control the valve to reduce pressure exactly 50% each time AFM kicks in...That make any sense?
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Old 10-18-2008, 02:40 PM   #10
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OK I'm with ya. I don't think a BOV would work, when AFM condition is met, 4 cylinders deactivate, blower goes from 3lb to 6, BOV opens, reduces pressure to an unpredictable pressure. Unless there was a way to control the valve to reduce pressure exactly 50% each time AFM kicks in...That make any sense?
well, BOVs dont just dump all the pressure, if you set it to say 4lbs, and you surpass that, it will bleed off the pressure till it gets back down to 4lbs then it will close allowing you to stay at 4lbs... or whatever you decide to run.
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Old 10-18-2008, 03:05 PM   #11
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well, BOVs dont just dump all the pressure, if you set it to say 4lbs, and you surpass that, it will bleed off the pressure till it gets back down to 4lbs then it will close allowing you to stay at 4lbs... or whatever you decide to run.
I understand. Problem is I'm seeing a fatal loop in the ecm...AFM kicks in, 4 active cylinders rise to 6 lb boost, exhaust gas goes lean, ecm compensates and richens fuel, car accelerates and kicks off AFM. Am I headed in the right direction?

One thing doesn't make sense here...If the valves are constantly closed during an AFM event, wouldn't that create much more energy loss than allowing valves to open and cycle air thru the cylinders? Closing the valves is like blowing up a balloon, cycling air thru the cylinders is like blowing thru a straw.

Does anyone have a good article on AFM operation?
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Old 10-18-2008, 03:18 PM   #12
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I understand. Problem is I'm seeing a fatal loop in the ecm...AFM kicks in, 4 active cylinders rise to 6 lb boost, exhaust gas goes lean, ecm compensates and richens fuel, car accelerates and kicks off AFM. Am I headed in the right direction?
but when it goes past 4lbs of boost (since we are using that for our reference) the BOV will drop the boost back down to 4lbs. and if its tuned correctly the extra 2lbs wont do much even during the switchover.

but it will take some work and practice messing with the tune tables to get it working correctly.
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Old 10-18-2008, 03:51 PM   #13
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but when it goes past 4lbs of boost (since we are using that for our reference) the BOV will drop the boost back down to 4lbs. and if its tuned correctly the extra 2lbs wont do much even during the switchover.

but it will take some work and practice messing with the tune tables to get it working correctly.
Thought thru the constantly closed valve situation, it makes sense that downstroke will regain energy lost in compression. I'll think on it later I gotta go to work, can't rub my belly and chew gum at the same time lol. Pass on any good afm articles if ya got em tho.

The more I consider it I'd love to have a blown L99 that would get 30 mpg!
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Old 10-18-2008, 04:03 PM   #14
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Thought thru the constantly closed valve situation, it makes sense that downstroke will regain energy lost in compression. I'll think on it later I gotta go to work, can't rub my belly and chew gum at the same time lol. Pass on any good afm articles if ya got em tho.

The more I consider it I'd love to have a blown L99 that would get 30 mpg!
there's already a bunch of articles here. just do a search.
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Old 10-18-2008, 05:18 PM   #15
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Something else to consider is that there where rumors that the new system will "refresh" the charge in the shutdown cylinders so that it doesnt detonate on its own and that its less harsh on restart of the deactivated cylinders..
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Old 10-18-2008, 08:01 PM   #16
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Yall have no idea how BOV work ...
It opens when the throttle closes to release pressure after the turbo/blower before the throttle blade so the air doesnt back up and slow down the compresser wheel . Some recirculate back in to the intake(before turbo) others dump it to the atmosphere and they are more comonly called BOV .

With turbos we use waste gates and boost controlers to control boost .
Superchargers use pully size to regulate boost.

Some superchargers have by pass valves that open at low loads to make them soak up very little HP while driving .

The guys on G8board have some supercharged systems running .
Do some reading over there and see what they come up with there AFM .
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Old 10-18-2008, 08:19 PM   #17
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Yall have NO idea how BOV work ...

The guys on G8board have some supercharged systems running .
Do some reading over there and see what they come up with there AFM .


i do have to admit this. i was referring to a dump valve/wastegate instead of BOV.
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Old 10-18-2008, 09:19 PM   #18
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You can disable AFM with a tune. I doubt anyone has a puffer with AFM enabled, but I don't know for sure.
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Old 10-18-2008, 09:54 PM   #19
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Yall have no idea how BOV work ...
It opens when the throttle closes to release pressure after the turbo/blower before the throttle blade so the air doesnt back up and slow down the compresser wheel . Some recirculate back in to the intake(before turbo) others dump it to the atmosphere and they are more comonly called BOV .

With turbos we use waste gates and boost controlers to control boost .
Superchargers use pully size to regulate boost.

Some superchargers have by pass valves that open at low loads to make them soak up very little HP while driving .

The guys on G8board have some supercharged systems running .
Do some reading over there and see what they come up with there AFM .
I know a couple people running centrifugals on LS1s and LS3s that run blow off valves to protect the throttle body and everything upstream.
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Old 10-18-2008, 09:54 PM   #20
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Magnacharger has a kit ready (not sure if it's for sale, yet) on the G8, and Procharger does to. Afaik, AFM is still active in both applications.

JusticePete, the Pedders guy around here, has a Procharged G8 -- he'll know for sure.
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Old 10-19-2008, 12:39 AM   #21
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There is no way you could have boost with AFM on at the same time anyway. At the throttle opening you would need to have to start building boost the AFM would have already been shut off by the computer.
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Old 10-19-2008, 12:49 AM   #22
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the new magnachargers have a bypass valve built in so they relieve the pressure when the AFM kicks in
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Old 10-20-2008, 03:47 PM   #23
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Yes you can use F/I with the AFM system. Mine has been working flawlessly for months. Including dyno testing, auto-crosses, road courses, drag strips, highway and city driving my L76 G8 is delivering 19.1 MPG and now is at 480 RWHP.
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Old 10-21-2008, 10:15 PM   #24
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Yes you can use F/I with the AFM system. Mine has been working flawlessly for months. Including dyno testing, auto-crosses, road courses, drag strips, highway and city driving my L76 G8 is delivering 19.1 MPG and now is at 480 RWHP.
480RWHP>19.1MPG

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Old 10-22-2008, 12:31 AM   #25
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I've seen the same thing for the Hemi's your talking about... In all my research you have to get the system deleted... It costs like 150$ for the Hemi...
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