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Old 10-18-2008, 01:33 PM   #1
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My Dealer says Your Dealers are all ripping you off!

Hello Camaro5 folks!

I decided that I would go to my dealer today and see if I could place an order and then when they finally offer blue I would change the color on the order at a later date.

I had been reluctant do order one thinking I would be depriving another person of a car but I figured if there were any left on his allocation by now that everyone who was truly a die-hard would have ordered already and I wouldn't feel guilty if I ordered one and had to cancel it if they don't offer blue.

So, I went to the dealer and the salesman I normally see was not there so another guy offered to help me. I asked him what his allocation was and he said that GM has not given out that information, and they won't give it out for a long time. He said that dealers may get a showroom car in April or May but they had doubts that production would begin until the summer.

I asked the guy why he didn't know his allocation and he said that that information was not being given out. I said he could check on chevylaunch.com and find out and he said that they have been checking constantly but the info is just not there.

He then told me that nobody in my area would be seeing Camaros for the better part of the year because most of the dealers that get them would be the big dealers in major cities like NYC, LA, etc. He said that those dealers will surely ration them out with a $30K markup.

He told me that they could take a deposit like some dealers are but that just means I'd be giving them money to play around with indefinitely because they had no idea when the cars would actually start getting built and they couldn't place any orders not even for their own dealer stock.

He assured me that since they had hired a new sales guy 2 years ago that specialized in selling Corvettes that they were assured of a great allocation because of the high volume of vettes they had sold in the past 2 years which was huge compared to other local dealers. I just had to wait for GM to tell them their allocation.

I then said I didn't want to call him a liar but several of my friends on Camaro5.com has already placed orders and were even given order numbers and knew what place they had on their dealer allocations. Some guys were #1 out of 5, other guys were #2 out of 3, and so on. The guy told me to "forget what you read on the internet." and "it's all a bunch of B.S." and that nobody was given any allocation and all dealers were doing was taking deposits to "reserve a space in line" for when GM finally gave out allocations.

He said he would be happy to take a deposit from me to reserve my place in line and that he had several other guys foaming at the mouth as well but he talked them out of it too. But if I was really that eager they would be glad to take my money and give me a slip of paper saying I was reserving my place for when allocations become available. He said that he was "doing a favor" for me by not taking money from me and that dealers that were supposedly taking orders were going to have all that money to "play around with" and were ripping enthusiasts off by leading them on like that.

I just wanted to put that out there and see if any of you had any reaction to what my dealer was saying and perhaps if I had miscommunicated to him in some way what I wanted or misunderstood what he was saying. This dealer has been serving my family for 30 years and always has been good so I am saddened by the fact that what he says seems to be so my different than what I read here.

Of coruse he did warn me to not pay any attention to the internet...
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Old 10-18-2008, 01:52 PM   #2
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Sounds like he's just misinformed.
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Old 10-18-2008, 01:55 PM   #3
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I don't really blame salespeople for not knowing everything about this car or even GM policy. How much do any of us know about our companies, products, or services? It is hard to demand a car salesperson to know everything about this car and its allotment, features, or options.

This guys does not know what is happening when it comes to the Camaro. Many of us here at Camaro5 have an expertise in the Camaro. We don't have expertise in other cars. For example, I can tell you all about the Camaro, but don't think I'll be able to recite options or pricing for a Chevy Aveo. I know a little about the Aveo, but I couldn't tell you all of the features like I can with the Camaro. As a salesperson, this guy is responsible for a lot of cars and trucks. It is impossible to memorize every feature of every car on the lot.

Basically, just expect them to price it for you. You can learn the features and options here. Camaro5 is full of great buying advice, too. Don't expect your salesperson to guide you through the process. They're only there for a paycheck; you're there for your favorite new Chevy.
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Old 10-18-2008, 02:00 PM   #4
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Sounds like he's just misinformed.
Yup. He could be the nicest guy in the world but he's misinformed.
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Old 10-18-2008, 02:05 PM   #5
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It's really a shame that they can't just read the information that GM sends them and follow simple directions. My dealer called me and asked me not to come in until the information was up. I had to tell him it was, we know MSRP, let's go! I think some of them may resent how much the general public (or enthusiasts) knows before they do. I mean come on, it's a guaranteed sale. No pressure. Reading things like this makes me think some of them are not hurting as much as they'd like us to believe.

Funny thing is, they are probably sitting there with a huge allocation and probably don't even know it. Truly sad............
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Old 10-18-2008, 02:13 PM   #6
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When I was talking to him I couldn't help but shake the feeling that he was perfectly informed and was trying to misinform ME!

I'm going to try a different dealer on Monday.

I am a bit worried though because the guy was talking about huge markups being put on by other dealers. I was getting the feeling maybe he was going to say his markup was much smaller than others...
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Old 10-18-2008, 03:04 PM   #7
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Captain - we have published the MSRP and dealer cost for everything here on camaro5. How can anyone here get ripped off? Nobody who does research on Camaro5 will get scammed. Your dealer is not well educated with respect to the Camaro. Look for a dealer on Killer74Z28 thread to find someone who is fair and has sold to fellow Camaro5 members.
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Old 10-18-2008, 03:05 PM   #8
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if I wanted you to come back to me for the sale then I too would tell you that everyone else will be marking it up an outragous amount.
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Old 10-18-2008, 03:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
Hello Camaro5 folks!

I decided that I would go to my dealer today and see if I could place an order and then when they finally offer blue I would change the color on the order at a later date.

I had been reluctant do order one thinking I would be depriving another person of a car but I figured if there were any left on his allocation by now that everyone who was truly a die-hard would have ordered already and I wouldn't feel guilty if I ordered one and had to cancel it if they don't offer blue.

So, I went to the dealer and the salesman I normally see was not there so another guy offered to help me. I asked him what his allocation was and he said that GM has not given out that information, and they won't give it out for a long time. He said that dealers may get a showroom car in April or May but they had doubts that production would begin until the summer.

I asked the guy why he didn't know his allocation and he said that that information was not being given out. I said he could check on chevylaunch.com and find out and he said that they have been checking constantly but the info is just not there.

He then told me that nobody in my area would be seeing Camaros for the better part of the year because most of the dealers that get them would be the big dealers in major cities like NYC, LA, etc. He said that those dealers will surely ration them out with a $30K markup.

He told me that they could take a deposit like some dealers are but that just means I'd be giving them money to play around with indefinitely because they had no idea when the cars would actually start getting built and they couldn't place any orders not even for their own dealer stock.

He assured me that since they had hired a new sales guy 2 years ago that specialized in selling Corvettes that they were assured of a great allocation because of the high volume of vettes they had sold in the past 2 years which was huge compared to other local dealers. I just had to wait for GM to tell them their allocation.

I then said I didn't want to call him a liar but several of my friends on Camaro5.com has already placed orders and were even given order numbers and knew what place they had on their dealer allocations. Some guys were #1 out of 5, other guys were #2 out of 3, and so on. The guy told me to "forget what you read on the internet." and "it's all a bunch of B.S." and that nobody was given any allocation and all dealers were doing was taking deposits to "reserve a space in line" for when GM finally gave out allocations.

He said he would be happy to take a deposit from me to reserve my place in line and that he had several other guys foaming at the mouth as well but he talked them out of it too. But if I was really that eager they would be glad to take my money and give me a slip of paper saying I was reserving my place for when allocations become available. He said that he was "doing a favor" for me by not taking money from me and that dealers that were supposedly taking orders were going to have all that money to "play around with" and were ripping enthusiasts off by leading them on like that.

I just wanted to put that out there and see if any of you had any reaction to what my dealer was saying and perhaps if I had miscommunicated to him in some way what I wanted or misunderstood what he was saying. This dealer has been serving my family for 30 years and always has been good so I am saddened by the fact that what he says seems to be so my different than what I read here.

Of coruse he did warn me to not pay any attention to the internet...
he is a sack of poo
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Old 10-18-2008, 03:12 PM   #10
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When I was talking to him I couldn't help but shake the feeling that he was perfectly informed and was trying to misinform ME!

I'm going to try a different dealer on Monday.

I am a bit worried though because the guy was talking about huge markups being put on by other dealers. I was getting the feeling maybe he was going to say his markup was much smaller than others...
I could see where you might get the impression. First off, we know for a fact the the dealers recieved their allocation numbers last week, we also know from the podcast and from experience, that orders were taken starting the 13th.

I feel really bad for the people that have to deal with this crap. My dealer has been in Tucson for 86 years. Still a family business, and will not sell over MSRP unless there are dealer installed options.
Finding a "dealer" that still has a passion for the cars they sell is getting hard to find. That's one of the main reasons I will not buy from Jim Click Ford/Mazda/Kia... you name it he owns it and could give a rats a$$ about people, only the quick buck.

/rant off
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Old 10-18-2008, 03:31 PM   #11
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Captain - we have published the MSRP and dealer cost for everything here on camaro5. How can anyone here get ripped off? Nobody who does research on Camaro5 will get scammed. Your dealer is not well educated with respect to the Camaro. Look for a dealer on Killer74Z28 thread to find someone who is fair and has sold to fellow Camaro5 members.
In a nutshell, I am trying to say I believe you guys over the dealer but I cannot imagine why he would give me such a crazy story that doesn't jive with anything I see here if he wanted my business. Essentially, I had a deposit in hand and could have placed an order just like you guys did, but he was talking me out of it.

The second he said he didn't know what allocation he had I decided I wasn't going to place an order with him but I tried to keep the conversation going to find out what his game was and I couldn't figure it out.

Why turn away a potential order?
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Old 10-18-2008, 03:52 PM   #12
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In a nutshell, I am trying to say I believe you guys over the dealer but I cannot imagine why he would give me such a crazy story that doesn't jive with anything I see here if he wanted my business. Essentially, I had a deposit in hand and could have placed an order just like you guys did, but he was talking me out of it.

The second he said he didn't know what allocation he had I decided I wasn't going to place an order with him but I tried to keep the conversation going to find out what his game was and I couldn't figure it out.

Why turn away a potential order?
because if he admits that he doesnt know about a product, then his liability is at stake. especially if he isnt the guy you normally talk to.
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Old 10-18-2008, 03:56 PM   #13
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The answer is simple, he probably wants to order cars for the lot planning to make as much money as possible off of them. Unfortunately there will always be people that will pay a big markup if they can go down to the dealer and pick a car up as soon as it comes out. This guy wants to discourage you from taking that spot, as he knows the big markups will not last long. If he uses one of his spots for you, he loses the chance to make the big markup. He knows the car will sell if it is on the lot. Find a different dealer.
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Old 10-18-2008, 04:23 PM   #14
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$30,000 mark up? I have my deal to buy at msrp in writing so if someone wants a silver and black 2SS/RS for $30K mark up mine is available........
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Old 10-18-2008, 04:26 PM   #15
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The answer is simple, he probably wants to order cars for the lot planning to make as much money as possible off of them. Unfortunately there will always be people that will pay a big markup if they can go down to the dealer and pick a car up as soon as it comes out. This guy wants to discourage you from taking that spot, as he knows the big markups will not last long. If he uses one of his spots for you, he loses the chance to make the big markup. He knows the car will sell if it is on the lot. Find a different dealer.
This is exactly what I was thinking was happening. Play dumb to the enthusiasts so you don't use your allocation, load up the lot orders, and then rip off the dumb everyday buyer that buys with the "I have to have it now, no matter how much it is." mentality.

We've seen a lot of dealers called out here for trying to rip off loyal customers. I vote you go find another dealer. Good luck with hoping GM will make blue an option before your order drops. I really feel sorry for everyone that wants a blue SS and is getting screwed.
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Old 10-18-2008, 04:45 PM   #16
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$30,000 mark up? I have my deal to buy at msrp in writing so if someone wants a silver and black 2SS/RS for $30K mark up mine is available........
Or even for $15K over MSRP I'll sell......
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Old 10-18-2008, 04:45 PM   #17
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The answer is simple, he probably wants to order cars for the lot planning to make as much money as possible off of them. Unfortunately there will always be people that will pay a big markup if they can go down to the dealer and pick a car up as soon as it comes out. This guy wants to discourage you from taking that spot, as he knows the big markups will not last long. If he uses one of his spots for you, he loses the chance to make the big markup. He knows the car will sell if it is on the lot. Find a different dealer.
That's what I was thinking too, but I didn't want to say I thought that because I wanted to see if anyone was drawing the same conclusion. There's two of you so far that thinks he was "saving" the allocation for his lot or showroom.
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Old 10-18-2008, 05:03 PM   #18
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Old 10-18-2008, 05:09 PM   #19
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Being un-informed is OK. Just shut TFU! Mr. Salesman.
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Old 10-18-2008, 05:36 PM   #20
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30K markup? That would mean chosing between a loaded Camaro and Z06 corvette - that would be a tough choice! But I bet most would take the Z06
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:03 PM   #21
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^^No it wouldn't actually. I'm a Camaro freak but if I had to choose between the 2 cars at the same price, I would be owning my first Vette.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:30 PM   #22
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You know, this brings another experience of mine to mind on the Sat prior to ordering right after allocation was announced.

We showed up at a local Chevy dealer that is advertising pre-orders for the All New 2010 Camaro on their website, so I figured their salesmen might be somewhat knowledgable. Well, while wiping down my black 68 SS, this young guy walks up and said this is my dream car........beautiful car man. Well, we started talking about the new one and he starts telling me that oh yeah, we'll have them on the lot next month. I stopped wiping. I said really, you just found out your allocation yesterday, ordering starts on Monday and production starts Feb 16......or somewhere around there. He said oh no, we were told they would be here in Nov. I said ok, I'll see you next month. One of my buddies starts laughing at the guy said what's so funny? My buddy proceeds to tell him that he better go check his information because he's got a book over there 3 inches thick with more documentation they the dealer probably has and he knows what's going on. I just don't want you to have to go hide next month when he calls you out. Well, he calls up to the office and all you hear him say over and over is, really? When did it change? Oh, it's always been that way? Ok.

Well, when he gets off the phone he tells me that they have pushed off production and it will now be a 2010 instead of a 2009 and that issues have them starting production after the first of the year.

So, even though he was wrong and we called him on it, he still tried to save face and make it look just the opposite.

Oh, oh, oh, and one of other dealership guys started telling us how Dale Jr was doing final testing for Chevrolet RIGHT NOW! I said yeah, I saw that special about Saving GM and that was old footage from possible as much as a year ago. I had no idea, but I know Dale Jr is not doing testing right now. He's in the Cup Chase......

I think ALL car manufacturers should develop some type of purchasing system for enthusiasts where we don't have to deal directly with dealerships and actually be able to talk to people who know. Let those that want to wait and see multiple cars on the lots go through the dealers. I know some will hate that last statement and I know it doesn't apply to all dealers. They do have to know ALL of their cars and not just one, but when I walk in there, I want him to at least know as much as I do..........my dealer has actually mentioned having me come in and talk to his sales staff and educate them when the stock cars start coming in so they can approach potential customers with more knowledge on options and features. Got an email this week telling me that the cd of pics from Indy I gave them helped several of their people on the list last week make decisions on what they wanted to order.

Sorry for the long post..........they were selling a train and Super Bee on Barrett-Jackson so I had some time to kill.......LOL
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Old 10-18-2008, 07:40 PM   #23
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Hello Camaro5 folks!

I decided that I would go to my dealer today and see if I could place an order and then when they finally offer blue I would change the color on the order at a later date.

I had been reluctant do order one thinking I would be depriving another person of a car but I figured if there were any left on his allocation by now that everyone who was truly a die-hard would have ordered already and I wouldn't feel guilty if I ordered one and had to cancel it if they don't offer blue.

So, I went to the dealer and the salesman I normally see was not there so another guy offered to help me. I asked him what his allocation was and he said that GM has not given out that information, and they won't give it out for a long time. He said that dealers may get a showroom car in April or May but they had doubts that production would begin until the summer.

I asked the guy why he didn't know his allocation and he said that that information was not being given out. I said he could check on chevylaunch.com and find out and he said that they have been checking constantly but the info is just not there.

He then told me that nobody in my area would be seeing Camaros for the better part of the year because most of the dealers that get them would be the big dealers in major cities like NYC, LA, etc. He said that those dealers will surely ration them out with a $30K markup.

He told me that they could take a deposit like some dealers are but that just means I'd be giving them money to play around with indefinitely because they had no idea when the cars would actually start getting built and they couldn't place any orders not even for their own dealer stock.

He assured me that since they had hired a new sales guy 2 years ago that specialized in selling Corvettes that they were assured of a great allocation because of the high volume of vettes they had sold in the past 2 years which was huge compared to other local dealers. I just had to wait for GM to tell them their allocation.

I then said I didn't want to call him a liar but several of my friends on Camaro5.com has already placed orders and were even given order numbers and knew what place they had on their dealer allocations. Some guys were #1 out of 5, other guys were #2 out of 3, and so on. The guy told me to "forget what you read on the internet." and "it's all a bunch of B.S." and that nobody was given any allocation and all dealers were doing was taking deposits to "reserve a space in line" for when GM finally gave out allocations.

He said he would be happy to take a deposit from me to reserve my place in line and that he had several other guys foaming at the mouth as well but he talked them out of it too. But if I was really that eager they would be glad to take my money and give me a slip of paper saying I was reserving my place for when allocations become available. He said that he was "doing a favor" for me by not taking money from me and that dealers that were supposedly taking orders were going to have all that money to "play around with" and were ripping enthusiasts off by leading them on like that.

I just wanted to put that out there and see if any of you had any reaction to what my dealer was saying and perhaps if I had miscommunicated to him in some way what I wanted or misunderstood what he was saying. This dealer has been serving my family for 30 years and always has been good so I am saddened by the fact that what he says seems to be so my different than what I read here.

Of coruse he did warn me to not pay any attention to the internet...
What's the name of the dealer?
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Old 10-18-2008, 08:13 PM   #24
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Just print the PDF file and bring it into the dealer. Point at the last page (where it states ordering started on the 13th) and then ask where his copy is.
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Old 10-19-2008, 09:39 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Ctrain24 View Post
What's the name of the dealer?
I'm going to go back on Monday and try and talk to the sales guy I have been dealing with. Maybe the one guy was just a dolt.

I will report back and give the name. I don't want to diss the whole dealership because they had one flaky salesman.

I will say it's in central New York. I don't know if the location here has any bearing on the value or availability of 2010 Camaros.
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