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Old 05-30-2010, 12:56 AM   #101
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The expectation today by and large, for every car buyer, is top quality interior materior and fit and finish.
If a top quality interior is the expectation of every car buyer, and the Camaro doesn't have it, how do you explain the fact that the Camaro outsold everything else by hefty margins? Also, all we heard about in comparisons last year was how the Mustang's interior was awesome, but their sales sucked compared to the Camaro's. How does that fit into your theory?

Face facts, the Camaro sells really well. That either means buyers like the interior (ie; it's better than you think), or interiors just aren't as important as you think.

I think the reason why so much is made of the Camaro interior is because it doesn't fit the mold of German interiors. GM was creative with their interior design, and it upsets "car" people's expectations of what an interior should be like (ie; BMW or Audi). At least, that's what I can deduce when I read reviews critical of the Camaro interior for things like a "steering wheel too thick" (WTF?), or when they knock the stock stick shift (which is excellent).
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:00 AM   #102
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When Honda Civics have better grade plastic and fit and finish than a $30k Camaro the expectation is now beyond the fact that it's a muscle car and you get all the performance.

Unfair or silly to compare a Hyundai to a Camaro? When it comes to interior plastics and quality, not at all.
I never understood this fetish that people have for Japanese interior quality. I've never liked any of the Camry/Accord/etc. interiors that I've been in. That goes for the plastics, the style, and especially the seats which have always seemed to be unnaturally hard to me.

As far as the Germans cars go, the interiors are very nice, but they are also very teutonic and boring. And at least we've never had the iDrive fiasco.

Overall, though, the Camaro does it for me. Yes the steering wheel shape is goofy. Yes I would have preferred soft touch plastics and a nav option. I'm also glad that my V-6 has a better looking font on the speedo/tach than the V-8 (small victories!). But this car has more personality and creativity in the radio than most other cars have in the whole interior.
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:26 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM View Post
If a top quality interior is the expectation of every car buyer, and the Camaro doesn't have it, how do you explain the fact that the Camaro outsold everything else by hefty margins? Also, all we heard about in comparisons last year was how the Mustang's interior was awesome, but their sales sucked compared to the Camaro's. How does that fit into your theory?

Face facts, the Camaro sells really well. That either means buyers like the interior (ie; it's better than you think), or interiors just aren't as important as you think.

I think the reason why so much is made of the Camaro interior is because it doesn't fit the mold of German interiors. GM was creative with their interior design, and it upsets "car" people's expectations of what an interior should be like (ie; BMW or Audi). At least, that's what I can deduce when I read reviews critical of the Camaro interior for things like a "steering wheel too thick" (WTF?), or when they knock the stock stick shift (which is excellent).
Sure it outsells the Mustang and Challenger...... what I am talking about is the V6 Camaro being a true head-to-head competitor to the Accord V6 coupe and Altima V6 coupe.

The problem with most of you who don't see the big picture is you are sticking with GM as an "American" ideal - get with the program. GM is in competition with everyone, all over the world, and the more people realize that your opinions will change. You cannot keep comparing the Camaro to only Ford and Chrysler offerings. It must be compared to Honda, Nissan, BMW, Hyundai, Audi - in other words, all of those companies offer something in the Camaro's price range and performance range which can pull a customer away. And since GM still has a stigma of producing garbage to many people, the new GM cannot afford to cut corners anywhere. Yes, the new Camaro is nice - it's fantastic..... compared to the utter junk the 1st-4th generation Camaros were. Now it's time GM needs to step up to the plate, and I think they understand the whole picture now.

Time will tell. Remember - they aren't competing against just Ford and Chrysler anymore.
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:43 AM   #104
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You had me till you said the 1st-4th gen's were junk.
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:29 AM   #105
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If people want a honda, they buy a honda... if they have the money to buy german they do that.... I think people like the Camaro for what it is.... I for one am not interested in an interior clone of Japanese or German cars... if I wanted that, I would buy that.... for me it is what it is, and I like it.... can it be improved? I'm sure it can, but those who are crafting the improvements should remember the "lane" the Camaro occupies, and make the improvements while staying in that lane.... but that's just me...
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:35 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM View Post
The only "improvement" they can get from an Audi is style.
Not completely true. Read some of the specific 'issues' he cites about the Camaro's interior...layout, placement...ergonomics. I'm CERTAINLY not saying the inside of the Camaro is bad - not at all! But to sit back and say "Okay...I'm done, this is good."...is a BAAADDDD attitude to have in an environment like the auto industry.

I'm glad this is not what we're seeing here.

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I for one am not interested in an interior clone of Japanese or German cars... if I wanted that, I would buy that.... for me it is what it is, and I like it.... can it be improved? I'm sure it can, but those who are crafting the improvements should remember the "lane" the Camaro occupies, and make the improvements while staying in that lane.... but that's just me...
Nobody's saying they're going to clone anything. They're going to improve...with Audi, apparently, as a benchmark. They can do that while keeping the Camaro in its "lane". Don't worry too much -- these people know what they're doing.
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:03 PM   #107
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As long as i live i never cease to be amazed. GM announces they're improving the Camaro and people get mad. Amazing.
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:08 PM   #108
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As long as i live i never cease to be amazed. GM announces they're improving the Camaro and people get mad. Amazing.
+1.
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Old 05-30-2010, 01:52 PM   #109
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If people want a honda, they buy a honda... if they have the money to buy german they do that.... I think people like the Camaro for what it is.... I for one am not interested in an interior clone of Japanese or German cars... if I wanted that, I would buy that.... for me it is what it is, and I like it.... can it be improved? I'm sure it can, but those who are crafting the improvements should remember the "lane" the Camaro occupies, and make the improvements while staying in that lane.... but that's just me...
Again, missing the point. So many of you don't look outside of American cars and then wonder why people don't want American cars - you need to open your mind.

It's not "if people want a Honda, then buy a Honda". It's "people see the quality of material and fit and finish in a $17,000 Civic and then expect to see that same level in any car costing $25,000 or more, reguardless of performance and handling"

With today's technology and available materials it is not expensive to design a better interior than what is currently in the Camaro. It is not. It has been proven by other car makers all over the world.
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:02 PM   #110
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I like the way the interior looks. There's not too many useless buttons and wing-dings. I would only ask for the following 2 things:

1) Better materials to use on the interior
2) Dual climate zones.
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:06 PM   #111
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Chevy used Audi to re-do the interior on the Avalanche and Tahoe starting in 2007 and all it did was make it better.

Can't sit on what you got - got to get better all the time. That's why we do mods on new cars.
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Old 05-30-2010, 03:18 PM   #112
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No offense, but you're missing the point. This Camaro isn't a sedan, it's designers shouldn't prefer an interior like a sedan's. It's a muscle car, it's interior should be affordably brash. It sells fine just the way it is, it's going to sell better once all the options like convertible, Z28, etc... come out.
Sorry - Audi makes a lot more than sedans.

It feels like the only people who don't want to see improvments in the interior are the people who already own Camaro's - as though it's some kind of slap in the face to them.

I applaud Chevy for recognizing a weakness and focusing on improving it. While the Camaro interior might have plenty to like, it is also the number one area of the car that can use improvement.

Last edited by Eich; 05-30-2010 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 05-30-2010, 03:37 PM   #113
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I don't think I've missed the point at all... my point remains, if there is significant "improvements" to the interior of the car, using "better" materials, there is a trade off... At some point the cost of using better will have to increase the price of the car, and consequently consumers will have to pay more... The question is how much more will the "masses" be willing to pay for a better interior in a chevy? I don't know that answer, but I do know that a company can out-price a product so that people will opt not to buy it.... The ZR-1 sales factor in simply because the improvements made on that car impact how many will be sold... even if its not a high volume seller... Will the market that Chevy targeted as being willing to buy a ZR-1 which is a chevy that costs 100k? Last I checked, they are not selling as well as some had hoped..... those were the points I was attempting to convey...
Don't you think Chevy has already made significant improvements to the interior and the engines from previous generations? Is the car affordable today? Should they now stop improving the engines so that costs don't increase?

Did Ford recently make improvements to the Mustang's interior and engines? Is that car affordable today?

Cars don't have to be stagnate to remain affordable. Chevy is FINALLY realizing that interiors are very important to buyers. I think the 2010 Camaro is a nice step forward from previous generations but it went too far in the retro/gimimicky direction at the expense of options, quality or perception of quality.

I APPLAUD them for using a car like an Audi as their new measure of reference instead of say - Ford. This doesn't mean that they intend to blatantly copy Audi look, materials and price in the Camaro. Obviously there is a price point for the Camaro that they have to stay within. But it tells me that instead of trading small back and forth jabs with direct domestic competitors, they decided to look at one of the best in the best in the business to get an idea of what signifies quality in an interior.
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Old 05-30-2010, 03:41 PM   #114
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It sells fine just the way it is, it's going to sell better once all the options like convertible, Z28, HUD, LCD w/Nav & reverse camera, other interior improvements, etc... come out.
Fixed that for you !
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Old 05-30-2010, 04:29 PM   #115
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Again, missing the point. So many of you don't look outside of American cars and then wonder why people don't want American cars - you need to open your mind.

It's not "if people want a Honda, then buy a Honda". It's "people see the quality of material and fit and finish in a $17,000 Civic and then expect to see that same level in any car costing $25,000 or more, reguardless of performance and handling"

With today's technology and available materials it is not expensive to design a better interior than what is currently in the Camaro. It is not. It has been proven by other car makers all over the world.
I think you've missed the point... those who want Hondas are buying them.... Are you suggesting that the people who are buying Hondas would look at a Camaro IF the interior was on par with Honda or Audi? I don't think so... as for my mind being open, it is.... I don't share your view, it doesn't mean my mind is closed, it means, I don't share your view...

If people choose to buy imports vs american, it does not mean that American cars are lacking as much as it may mean that they prefer imports for any number of reasons... I am okay with that.....
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Old 05-30-2010, 04:33 PM   #116
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Don't you think Chevy has already made significant improvements to the interior and the engines from previous generations? Is the car affordable today? Should they now stop improving the engines so that costs don't increase?

Did Ford recently make improvements to the Mustang's interior and engines? Is that car affordable today?

Cars don't have to be stagnate to remain affordable. Chevy is FINALLY realizing that interiors are very important to buyers. I think the 2010 Camaro is a nice step forward from previous generations but it went too far in the retro/gimimicky direction at the expense of options, quality or perception of quality.

I APPLAUD them for using a car like an Audi as their new measure of reference instead of say - Ford. This doesn't mean that they intend to blatantly copy Audi look, materials and price in the Camaro. Obviously there is a price point for the Camaro that they have to stay within. But it tells me that instead of trading small back and forth jabs with direct domestic competitors, they decided to look at one of the best in the best in the business to get an idea of what signifies quality in an interior.
Improvements will always be made, please understand I am not disagreeing with that point... however my point is that improvements whatever they may be, engine, interior, exterior, etc will cost... If the increase is major, then those who were looking at purchasing the car will not be able to. If Chevy is aiming at selling the car to a particular market segment, but that segment cannot afford the new and improved, then the company will lose sales... that is my point....
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Old 05-30-2010, 06:08 PM   #117
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You had me till you said the 1st-4th gen's were junk.


+1
The 1st -4th gen were not junk, they were on par with others in thier prospective eras. And if they were junk then why did we go back to thier styling.


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Old 05-30-2010, 08:02 PM   #118
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As long as i live i never cease to be amazed. GM announces they're improving the Camaro and people get mad. Amazing.
Nope, GM said they are changing the Camaro. Whether it will be an improvement will depend on the consumers.
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Old 05-30-2010, 08:19 PM   #119
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Sure it outsells the Mustang and Challenger...... what I am talking about is the V6 Camaro being a true head-to-head competitor to the Accord V6 coupe and Altima V6 coupe.
I knew you wanted to turn this car into a sedan... Buick's are going to do that better.

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The problem with most of you who don't see the big picture is you are sticking with GM as an "American" ideal - get with the program. GM is in competition with everyone, all over the world, and the more people realize that your opinions will change. You cannot keep comparing the Camaro to only Ford and Chrysler offerings. It must be compared to Honda, Nissan, BMW, Hyundai, Audi - in other words, all of those companies offer something in the Camaro's price range and performance range which can pull a customer away.
Huge mistake. Trying to emulate other car manufacturers is what got them in trouble. They can't make BMW's, Audi's, Toyota's and Nissan's better than those respective companies do, and nobody would respect GM cars if they tried to.

All they have to do is make what people like. People really, really, really like the Camaro. If GM screws it up by turning it into just another bland foreign car, it won't sell.

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Time will tell. Remember - they aren't competing against just Ford and Chrysler anymore.
Since they're beating the competition (yes, all competition), I don't see what your point is.
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Old 05-30-2010, 08:37 PM   #120
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I really wish we had the air conditioned seats !
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Old 05-30-2010, 08:57 PM   #121
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Nobody said they're making the Camaro like an Audi or a BMW in any other area than quality.
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:50 PM   #122
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Huge mistake. Trying to emulate other car manufacturers is what got them in trouble. They can't make BMW's, Audi's, Toyota's and Nissan's better than those respective companies do, and nobody would respect GM cars if they tried to.


NO!

It's not trying to make a BMW, it's trying to get the materials, fit, and finish of a BMW..... OF COURSE I WANT AMERICAN STYLE AND PERFORMANCE! BUT NOT AMERICAN CHEAP HARD PLASTIC AND LACK OF ATTENTION TO DETAIL!

All these years they WERE trying to make their cars more European or Japanese, but they were focusing on the wrong things. People want their American cars to be American - that means powerful and stylish.

But what they DON'T want, and have now proven over the last 10+ years of not buying American cars, is the hard plastic, the panel gaps, and the lack of attention to detail that honestly was absent of every American car from about 1965 until the 2008 redesigned Cadillac CTS came out.

The problem is, going back to the 1970s comparable Japanese and German interiors had much better quality of materials and fit and finish than equally priced American counterparts. I do not mean the design, I mean the quality of the materials.

The "junk" I refered to in the 1st-4th gen Camaros was a reference to the quality of the plastics in the interiors. Not the look. Not the performance.
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:59 PM   #123
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NO!

It's not trying to make a BMW, it's trying to get the materials, fit, and finish of a BMW..... OF COURSE I WANT AMERICAN STYLE AND PERFORMANCE! BUT NOT AMERICAN CHEAP HARD PLASTIC AND LACK OF ATTENTION TO DETAIL!

All these years they WERE trying to make their cars more European or Japanese, but they were focusing on the wrong things. People want their American cars to be American - that means powerful and stylish.

But what they DON'T want, and have now proven over the last 10+ years of not buying American cars, is the hard plastic, the panel gaps, and the lack of attention to detail that honestly was absent of every American car from about 1965 until the 2008 redesigned Cadillac CTS came out.

The problem is, going back to the 1970s comparable Japanese and German interiors had much better quality of materials and fit and finish than equally priced American counterparts. I do not mean the design, I mean the quality of the materials.

The "junk" I refered to in the 1st-4th gen Camaros was a reference to the quality of the plastics in the interiors. Not the look. Not the performance.
you've exaggerated to make a tenuous point.... last I checked, people were buying American cars over the last decade... they may have complained about them, but they did buy them..... likewise the attention to detail was more obvious in some cars than with others...
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:33 PM   #124
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I personally like the interior. Having said that, I'm waiting to see what the Z28 has to offer. (performance wise)
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:17 PM   #125
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NO!

It's not trying to make a BMW, it's trying to get the materials, fit, and finish of a BMW..... OF COURSE I WANT AMERICAN STYLE AND PERFORMANCE! BUT NOT AMERICAN CHEAP HARD PLASTIC AND LACK OF ATTENTION TO DETAIL!

All these years they WERE trying to make their cars more European or Japanese, but they were focusing on the wrong things. People want their American cars to be American - that means powerful and stylish.

But what they DON'T want, and have now proven over the last 10+ years of not buying American cars, is the hard plastic, the panel gaps, and the lack of attention to detail that honestly was absent of every American car from about 1965 until the 2008 redesigned Cadillac CTS came out.

The problem is, going back to the 1970s comparable Japanese and German interiors had much better quality of materials and fit and finish than equally priced American counterparts. I do not mean the design, I mean the quality of the materials.

The "junk" I refered to in the 1st-4th gen Camaros was a reference to the quality of the plastics in the interiors. Not the look. Not the performance.
The 2010 Camaro has a very good interior, as far as fit and finish goes. It's style is distinctive and generally well received (the only negatives I heard about were from people who obviously don't like muscle cars to begin with). In short, it's not one of the older models you have a problem with, so I really don't know why you keep bringing that up. It doesn't fit this car.

The 2010 Camaro is a very good car, outside and inside. GM has to be very careful that they don't screw it up by "improving" it into something that sucks.
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