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Old 10-20-2008, 08:51 PM   #1
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For All You Future V-6 Owners

I'm sure many on this site have a subscription to Road & Track magazine on this website. Well in the Novemeber issue they did an article titles Bling Quartet. Basically they tested tuners examples of production cars. One of the cars that caught my eye was the new CTS tunered by a company called D3. They modified things like the suspension, brakes, and aerodynamics. But what caught my eye was the modified 3.6L Modified Direct Injection V-6 under the hood! Here's the quote:

"Under the hood, D3 kept changes minimal. There's a custom intake system with a heat shield and a Corsa exhaust that not only improves flow, but gives the car a menacing roar during acceleration. The D3 CTS's 3.6-liter VVT DI (Direct Injection) V-6 produces 340 bhp at 6600 rpm and 292 lb.-ft. of torque at 4380. This allows the transformed car to get to 60 mph in 6.1 sec. and to the quarter mile in 14.5. (The company is working on a supercharged model)"

Those are some impressive numbers considering not too much was done. I think it'll be hilarious seeing modded Camaro V-6's walking on Mustang GT's! Here's a link to the article:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=7075
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:21 PM   #2
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I dunno, lack of torque and weight difference, I still see the GT winning. I guess it does make it more of a driver's race though.
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Old 10-20-2008, 10:25 PM   #3
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i thought the GT 0-60 was 5.4 seconds? is that true?
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Old 10-20-2008, 10:31 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DET MUSL View Post
I'm sure many on this site have a subscription to Road & Track magazine on this website. Well in the Novemeber issue they did an article titles Bling Quartet. Basically they tested tuners examples of production cars. One of the cars that caught my eye was the new CTS tunered by a company called D3. They modified things like the suspension, brakes, and aerodynamics. But what caught my eye was the modified 3.6L Modified Direct Injection V-6 under the hood! Here's the quote:

"Under the hood, D3 kept changes minimal. There's a custom intake system with a heat shield and a Corsa exhaust that not only improves flow, but gives the car a menacing roar during acceleration. The D3 CTS's 3.6-liter VVT DI (Direct Injection) V-6 produces 340 bhp at 6600 rpm and 292 lb.-ft. of torque at 4380. This allows the transformed car to get to 60 mph in 6.1 sec. and to the quarter mile in 14.5. (The company is working on a supercharged model)"

Those are some impressive numbers considering not too much was done. I think it'll be hilarious seeing modded Camaro V-6's walking on Mustang GT's! Here's a link to the article:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=7075
I thought it already went 0-60 in 6.1sec stock.
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Old 10-20-2008, 10:41 PM   #5
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isnt t the camaro that is 0-60 in 6.1, not sue on the caddy though
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Old 10-20-2008, 11:21 PM   #6
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They said it will be at least 6.1 stock, but they are hoping to drop that to 5.9 stock.
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:01 AM   #7
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i thought the GT 0-60 was 5.4 seconds? is that true?
Not that it matters too much, but in tests against the GTO (my car) the GT could do 0-60 in 5.1 seconds. That's with the 5-speed manual.

I still think the Camaro would lose.

I saw that article too, and while it's impressive that they got it to 340 hp and most importantly 292 lbft of torque, I still doubt it's enough to beat the GT.


The V6 Camaro weighs too much and is geared too tall.

I don't see why V6 guys insist on believing the car will beat the GT.

Not to mention that company probably did quite a bit of tuning which would cost you $$..
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:16 AM   #8
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A lightly modded manual 5th gen. V6 up against an automatic GT would be an interesting race.
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:45 AM   #9
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That's awesome. I was hoping somebody would come up with a way to mod the V6 of the camaro.
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:47 AM   #10
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holy crap...I took a link to another page, check this out:

Quote:
Another D3 strong suit is its new supercharger for Cadillac's already-excellent direct-injected 3.6-liter V-6 engine. Developed in-house, this blower is very compact (fits with room to spare under the standard hood). Even though it is lightly boosted (running at about only 4.5 psi of boost), the engine is still very efficient, producing in excess of 400 horsepower.
100 + hp on 4.5 psi?!? Jeez!
I think whoever first said this little engine has some potential was understating the situation!
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:06 PM   #11
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I agree with you. You can get a lot of power out of those engines!! I can't wait!
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Old 10-21-2008, 12:13 PM   #12
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holy crap...I took a link to another page, check this out:


100 + hp on 4.5 psi?!? Jeez!
I think whoever first said this little engine has some potential was understating the situation!
Holy crap! I guess this answers the other thread about modding out the engine after the warranty expires! Good find, Dragon!
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:35 PM   #13
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holy crap...I took a link to another page, check this out:


100 + hp on 4.5 psi?!? Jeez!
I think whoever first said this little engine has some potential was understating the situation!
Wanna know why? Two words, compression ratio.
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:59 PM   #14
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one thing to keep in mind is that the peak hp of 340 is at 6600 rpms. i imagine that the GT would be able to hold its own or vice versa.


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holy crap...I took a link to another page, check this out:


100 + hp on 4.5 psi?!? Jeez!
I think whoever first said this little engine has some potential was understating the situation!
a few of us said this motor had potential....
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Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Wanna know why? Two words, compression ratio.
no.... two words.... DIRECT INJECTION

the cr is nearly too high for a serious amount of boost with normal fuel injection, but the fact that the v-6 is DI, the fuel doesnt have a chance to detonate in the high cr as its entering directly into the combustion chamber precisely when it needs to.
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Old 10-21-2008, 09:36 PM   #15
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the cr is nearly too high for a serious amount of boost with normal fuel injection, but the fact that the v-6 is DI, the fuel doesnt have a chance to detonate in the high cr as its entering directly into the combustion chamber precisely when it needs to.
Wow there is a car guy right there. I kind of just turned stupid right there because I kind of knew what you were talking about, but not really. So are you saying that since it's DI there will be no lag from you hitting the pedal, to it going? Or maybe a little lag?
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
holy crap...I took a link to another page, check this out:


100 + hp on 4.5 psi?!? Jeez!
I think whoever first said this little engine has some potential was understating the situation!
Why are you so surprised, it sounds about right to me. 4.5/14 = 32% gain. 132% of 304=402. I assume that losses due to heat would be countered by an intercooler and additional tuning.

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Wow there is a car guy right there. I kind of just turned stupid right there because I kind of knew what you were talking about, but not really. So are you saying that since it's DI there will be no lag from you hitting the pedal, to it going? Or maybe a little lag?
Nope, not what hes saying at all. in a normal engine, it draws fuel and air in, then compresses them, then ignites them, and forces the exhaust out. Problem is, when you compress a gas (like air) it heats up. If it gets too hot, it will ignite the fuel before you want it to. In a turbo charged engine you can't compress the air as much before this happens because you have already forced 30% to 100% more air into the cylinder, its 'pre-compressed' if you will. This whole problem gets avoided with direct injection because the fuel is added after the air is compressed. Air can't burn on its own no matter how hot you get it. It needs fuel.
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Old 10-22-2008, 01:34 PM   #17
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Why are you so surprised, it sounds about right to me. 4.5/14 = 32% gain. 132% of 304=402. I assume that losses due to heat would be countered by an intercooler and additional tuning.
Right, but it's usually never that direct. I know magnuson's on an LS1 only bumped the power 120hp or so...and that was with 7+ psi. With 7+psi on this little guy...if you were careful with the motor...you could be pushing 460bhp! That's pretty impressive for someone who might want to increase the power sometime down the road....
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Old 10-22-2008, 02:10 PM   #18
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Not that it matters too much, but in tests against the GTO (my car) the GT could do 0-60 in 5.1 seconds. That's with the 5-speed manual.

I still think the Camaro would lose.

I saw that article too, and while it's impressive that they got it to 340 hp and most importantly 292 lbft of torque, I still doubt it's enough to beat the GT.


The V6 Camaro weighs too much and is geared too tall.

I don't see why V6 guys insist on believing the car will beat the GT.

Not to mention that company probably did quite a bit of tuning which would cost you $$..


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Old 10-22-2008, 02:42 PM   #19
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the cr is nearly too high for a serious amount of boost with normal fuel injection, but the fact that the v-6 is DI, the fuel doesnt have a chance to detonate in the high cr as its entering directly into the combustion chamber precisely when it needs to.
I was talking about the relationship between the incredibly low amount of boost (because of the compression ratio) and the tremendous power reward.
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Old 10-22-2008, 08:43 PM   #20
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Keep in mind those test numbers were in a CTS. With these same things done in a V-6 Camaro it could be better..... but you can't say no until it's tried. It did say in the magazine that they would have applications for the V-6 Camaro.
Also another interesting note; Road & Track says that you can actually purchase D3 parts for your CTS through your Cadillac dealer! Now I don't know about you, but that's pretty impressive that GM would do that so that tells me that this company is for real.
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Old 10-22-2008, 08:58 PM   #21
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Nope, not what hes saying at all. in a normal engine, it draws fuel and air in, then compresses them, then ignites them, and forces the exhaust out. Problem is, when you compress a gas (like air) it heats up. If it gets too hot, it will ignite the fuel before you want it to. In a turbo charged engine you can't compress the air as much before this happens because you have already forced 30% to 100% more air into the cylinder, its 'pre-compressed' if you will. This whole problem gets avoided with direct injection because the fuel is added after the air is compressed. Air can't burn on its own no matter how hot you get it. It needs fuel.

Thank you for that car information. I know even more about the camaro's engine now!
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Old 10-23-2008, 12:57 AM   #22
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That's amazing that GM would partner would offer D3 products.
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Old 10-23-2008, 04:26 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
I was talking about the relationship between the incredibly low amount of boost (because of the compression ratio) and the tremendous power reward.
i got ya now.

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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Right, but it's usually never that direct. I know magnuson's on an LS1 only bumped the power 120hp or so...and that was with 7+ psi. With 7+psi on this little guy...if you were careful with the motor...you could be pushing 460bhp! That's pretty impressive for someone who might want to increase the power sometime down the road....
you could probably pull off 7psi in stock form.... for a while, but id intercool or meth inject it if I went more than 6ish psi with that motor. to add to that... switch to ethanol and crank the boost up!!!

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Thank you for that car information. I know even more about the camaro's engine now!

read some more..... http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en...FV6/08_LLT.doc
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Old 10-23-2008, 05:54 AM   #24
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I am no expert on DI, but I think a limiting factor is the injection system's ability to overcome the cylinder pressure. Add a lot of boost and the system could really struggle to get the fuel into the cylinder. I would imagine upgrading of the factory system would get pretty expensive and complex. If the maximum bmep in the cylinder is 2000 psi, the injection system will have to be capable of much more than that to accurately put the correct amount of fuel in. Upping this significantly through FI may cause a lot of issues in fuel control.
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Old 10-23-2008, 11:12 AM   #25
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Yeah it's not going to beat a GT. I've always been amazed how fast the GT is considering the size of the engine, and the weight of the car. Talk about optimized gearing. I mean, it's less powerful than an LS1 Z28, it's at least a hundred pounds heavier, but it's a tick faster.
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