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Old 10-21-2008, 09:36 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post

the cr is nearly too high for a serious amount of boost with normal fuel injection, but the fact that the v-6 is DI, the fuel doesnt have a chance to detonate in the high cr as its entering directly into the combustion chamber precisely when it needs to.
Wow there is a car guy right there. I kind of just turned stupid right there because I kind of knew what you were talking about, but not really. So are you saying that since it's DI there will be no lag from you hitting the pedal, to it going? Or maybe a little lag?
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:06 PM   #16
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holy crap...I took a link to another page, check this out:


100 + hp on 4.5 psi?!? Jeez!
I think whoever first said this little engine has some potential was understating the situation!
Why are you so surprised, it sounds about right to me. 4.5/14 = 32% gain. 132% of 304=402. I assume that losses due to heat would be countered by an intercooler and additional tuning.

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Wow there is a car guy right there. I kind of just turned stupid right there because I kind of knew what you were talking about, but not really. So are you saying that since it's DI there will be no lag from you hitting the pedal, to it going? Or maybe a little lag?
Nope, not what hes saying at all. in a normal engine, it draws fuel and air in, then compresses them, then ignites them, and forces the exhaust out. Problem is, when you compress a gas (like air) it heats up. If it gets too hot, it will ignite the fuel before you want it to. In a turbo charged engine you can't compress the air as much before this happens because you have already forced 30% to 100% more air into the cylinder, its 'pre-compressed' if you will. This whole problem gets avoided with direct injection because the fuel is added after the air is compressed. Air can't burn on its own no matter how hot you get it. It needs fuel.
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Old 10-22-2008, 01:34 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Why are you so surprised, it sounds about right to me. 4.5/14 = 32% gain. 132% of 304=402. I assume that losses due to heat would be countered by an intercooler and additional tuning.
Right, but it's usually never that direct. I know magnuson's on an LS1 only bumped the power 120hp or so...and that was with 7+ psi. With 7+psi on this little guy...if you were careful with the motor...you could be pushing 460bhp! That's pretty impressive for someone who might want to increase the power sometime down the road....
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Old 10-22-2008, 02:10 PM   #18
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Not that it matters too much, but in tests against the GTO (my car) the GT could do 0-60 in 5.1 seconds. That's with the 5-speed manual.

I still think the Camaro would lose.

I saw that article too, and while it's impressive that they got it to 340 hp and most importantly 292 lbft of torque, I still doubt it's enough to beat the GT.


The V6 Camaro weighs too much and is geared too tall.

I don't see why V6 guys insist on believing the car will beat the GT.

Not to mention that company probably did quite a bit of tuning which would cost you $$..


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Old 10-22-2008, 02:42 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
the cr is nearly too high for a serious amount of boost with normal fuel injection, but the fact that the v-6 is DI, the fuel doesnt have a chance to detonate in the high cr as its entering directly into the combustion chamber precisely when it needs to.
I was talking about the relationship between the incredibly low amount of boost (because of the compression ratio) and the tremendous power reward.
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Old 10-22-2008, 08:43 PM   #20
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Keep in mind those test numbers were in a CTS. With these same things done in a V-6 Camaro it could be better..... but you can't say no until it's tried. It did say in the magazine that they would have applications for the V-6 Camaro.
Also another interesting note; Road & Track says that you can actually purchase D3 parts for your CTS through your Cadillac dealer! Now I don't know about you, but that's pretty impressive that GM would do that so that tells me that this company is for real.
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Old 10-22-2008, 08:58 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post

Nope, not what hes saying at all. in a normal engine, it draws fuel and air in, then compresses them, then ignites them, and forces the exhaust out. Problem is, when you compress a gas (like air) it heats up. If it gets too hot, it will ignite the fuel before you want it to. In a turbo charged engine you can't compress the air as much before this happens because you have already forced 30% to 100% more air into the cylinder, its 'pre-compressed' if you will. This whole problem gets avoided with direct injection because the fuel is added after the air is compressed. Air can't burn on its own no matter how hot you get it. It needs fuel.

Thank you for that car information. I know even more about the camaro's engine now!
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Old 10-23-2008, 12:57 AM   #22
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That's amazing that GM would partner would offer D3 products.
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Old 10-23-2008, 04:26 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
I was talking about the relationship between the incredibly low amount of boost (because of the compression ratio) and the tremendous power reward.
i got ya now.

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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Right, but it's usually never that direct. I know magnuson's on an LS1 only bumped the power 120hp or so...and that was with 7+ psi. With 7+psi on this little guy...if you were careful with the motor...you could be pushing 460bhp! That's pretty impressive for someone who might want to increase the power sometime down the road....
you could probably pull off 7psi in stock form.... for a while, but id intercool or meth inject it if I went more than 6ish psi with that motor. to add to that... switch to ethanol and crank the boost up!!!

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Thank you for that car information. I know even more about the camaro's engine now!

read some more..... http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en...FV6/08_LLT.doc
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Old 10-23-2008, 05:54 AM   #24
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I am no expert on DI, but I think a limiting factor is the injection system's ability to overcome the cylinder pressure. Add a lot of boost and the system could really struggle to get the fuel into the cylinder. I would imagine upgrading of the factory system would get pretty expensive and complex. If the maximum bmep in the cylinder is 2000 psi, the injection system will have to be capable of much more than that to accurately put the correct amount of fuel in. Upping this significantly through FI may cause a lot of issues in fuel control.
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Old 10-23-2008, 11:12 AM   #25
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Yeah it's not going to beat a GT. I've always been amazed how fast the GT is considering the size of the engine, and the weight of the car. Talk about optimized gearing. I mean, it's less powerful than an LS1 Z28, it's at least a hundred pounds heavier, but it's a tick faster.
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Old 10-23-2008, 06:51 PM   #26
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Yeah it's not going to beat a GT. I've always been amazed how fast the GT is considering the size of the engine, and the weight of the car. Talk about optimized gearing. I mean, it's less powerful than an LS1 Z28, it's at least a hundred pounds heavier, but it's a tick faster.
what years are you talking? Z28>GT
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Old 10-23-2008, 07:01 PM   #27
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what years are you talking? Z28>GT
I'm sure he's referring to the current gen Mustang GT. Which yeah does 0-60 in like 5.1 seconds.... My SS supercharged Cobalt runs with previous gen Mustang GT's... lol I'm sure the Camaro V6 also won't have a problem with them.

The V6 Camaro stock vs a stock current Gen Mustang GT is going to get easily beat by the Mustang GT. We're talking over a half second in difference in acceleration between the two. Not to mention a current gen Mustang GT will do 13.6 in the 1/4 vs the 14.0-14.5 est 0-60 with the V6 Camaro.

My prediction is that the Camaro V6 stock will do 0-60 in 5.7-5.9 seconds. I can't see it doing 60 in less than that stock. Also I don't see the 1/4 being any quicker than 14.1 and that's going to be with a skilled driver.

Hopefully the V.6 from what we are hearing will be responsive to mods! One can only hope!

As for me I now have my sites on a 09 Cobalt SS Turbocharged... These things are doing the 1/4 14.0 according to the mags, but they're doing under 14 bone stock with a skilled driver... Someone even got one to do it in 13.6...
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Old 10-23-2008, 08:20 PM   #28
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I'm sure he's referring to the current gen Mustang GT. Which yeah does 0-60 in like 5.1 seconds.... My SS supercharged Cobalt runs with previous gen Mustang GT's... lol I'm sure the Camaro V6 also won't have a problem with them.
Im sure he is as well, but thats comparing apples to oranges.

comparing a vehicle that came out 6 years ago vs a vehicle that came out this year is not a decent comparison.

but as ive stated before, im fairly certain the mustang GT will beat the V-6 Camaro. due mostly in part from the higher torque of the GT being able to get off the line.
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