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Old 07-08-2010, 10:52 PM   #76
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Wacker, Ted is Ted Jannetty. He is the builder and tuner of my car. He said it was plug and play, those were his word exactly. He is working with Joe jr from protorque on developing a better version gen 5 converter. I trust Ted 200 percent. I'll mention this thread and see what he thinks,
Id be curious what Joe comes up with/changes with his latest version. Im pretty sure I have gen 1 as Joe said I was the 1st Camaro, and 2nd GM with the new design. Even though Ted says its plug and play, does he plan on tuning your trans to the new converter?
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:53 PM   #77
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Wacker, Ted is Ted Jannetty. He is the builder and tuner of my car. He said it was plug and play, those were his word exactly. He is working with Joe jr from pro torque on developing a better version gen 5 converter. I trust Ted 200 percent. I'll mention this thread and see what he thinks,
Ted has a really good rep on here. All info I have provided is based on over a year of logging/tuning this thing using two types of tuning software and two types off loggers/scanners. There may be a reason why pro-torque is still working on the Camaro verter. Plug and Play for an experienced tuner like Ted may mean something totally different to the laymen.
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:55 PM   #78
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Id be curious what Joe comes up with/changes with his latest version. Im pretty sure I have gen 1 as Joe said I was the 1st Camaro, and 2nd GM with the new design. Even though Ted says its plug and play, does he plan on tuning your trans to the new converter?
I would hope so...Pretty sure someone used EFI live to tune yours correct?
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:46 PM   #79
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I would hope so...Pretty sure someone used EFI live to tune yours correct?
Chuck at Westchester Corvettes tuned both the engine and trans at the time the convertor was installed.

A Couple of test methods were performed:

1) Seat of the pants (see like below link and fast forward to 38-43 seconds, yep, thats Chuck driving , Joe with the death grip on the roof riding shotgun ) http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1521425 - post1521425
and this with .05 miles on the new convertor!


2) They data logged some runs using EFI live. Later they analyzed the logs watching stall, recovery , slippage and some parameters I have no idea about. Joe took the info, and had planned to tweak the design before building another one.
Its a conservative variant on his new design, so its very treatable, but at the same time, allows a much better launch
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:05 AM   #80
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Still tuning the new verter and thought I would add some updates. Both D & S mode command a desired slip based on a multitude of parameters (load,TPS,Speed,etc). What I've had to do is modify lockup to occur no sooner than 67 MPH and be off by 62 MPH. Unless this action is taken I see anywhere from 50 to 100 RPM slip with TCC line pressure applied (VERY BAD). You can not feel this slip, only see it in the log, unless it is what I like to call "hunting". Hunting is the locking and unlocking of the verter while the TCM tries to achieve a desired slip with a converter not designed to do so. Interesting enough TUTD mode neither hunts nor slips at any speed, RPM, or load. Once these specific tables are unmasked I believe I'll be able to lock in D & S at any time I want without any slip.
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:25 AM   #81
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Still tuning the new verter and thought I would add some updates. Both D & S mode command a desired slip based on a multitude of parameters (load,TPS,Speed,etc). What I've had to do is modify lockup to occur no sooner than 67 MPH and be off by 62 MPH. Unless this action is taken I see anywhere from 50 to 100 RPM slip with TCC line pressure applied (VERY BAD). You can not feel this slip, only see it in the log, unless it is what I like to call "hunting". Hunting is the locking and unlocking of the verter while the TCM tries to achieve a desired slip with a converter not designed to do so. Interesting enough TUTD mode neither hunts nor slips at any speed, RPM, or load. Once these specific tables are unmasked I believe I'll be able to lock in D & S at any time I want without any slip.
Unless you know something I don't (or your software works differently than mine) you won't be available to achieve zero slip because PWM can't be turned off in the 6L80 like it can in the 4L series transmission.
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:31 PM   #82
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Unless you know something I don't (or your software works differently than mine) you won't be available to achieve zero slip because PWM can't be turned off in the 6L80E like it can in the 4L series transmission.
Vince @ Trifecta performance writes his own software and has/can manipulate any table/code in the ECM/TCM. It's just a matter of finding the table/code that correlates to the desired outcome. Should know something fairly soon as we both just got back from vacation and are logging our butts off.
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:38 PM   #83
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I wish I could add something to this thread but you guys are talking way above my head. My converter is going in this Thursday so I'll keep you updated as I get the info. I'm pretty sure that the new Pro-Torque is a 12" converter and isn't supposed to generate much more heat. I'll def keep and eye on that. My trans temps now are 180ish. Ted also mentioned something about the billet stator having double fins to lookup quicker...does that make any sense? Hopefully Ted will chime in.
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Old 07-18-2010, 04:08 PM   #84
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I wish I could add something to this thread but you guys are talking way above my head. My converter is going in this Thursday so I'll keep you updated as I get the info. I'm pretty sure that the new Pro-Torque is a 12" converter and isn't supposed to generate much more heat. I'll def keep and eye on that. My trans temps now are 180ish. Ted also mentioned something about the billet stator having double fins to lookup quicker...does that make any sense? Hopefully Ted will chime in.
I'm sure a converter builder could add some insight to the double fins. Currently the TCC only applies what pressure it deems necessary to achieve the preset desired slip, as load is increased it applies more pressure until it hits the cap of 109.9. There is also a ramp table that allows how fast the TCC applies pressure. Would be interesting to see if changing the internals of the converter have any affect on that. IMO the more guys we have looking at this thing the faster we are going to figure it out. Keep in mind, the tuning business is about making money. If you can do something no one else can then you will have more money in your pocket. Some scanners like HP can lock the converter by instantly applying 109.9 psi. This is good for logging and testing but much too violent at anything above 50% TPS. It does however prove that we can bypass any PWM setting via code manipulation. I have tuned a couple Camaros using HP. I currently run an HP tranny tune and Vince's' engine tune. I will say up until I installed the high stall converter in (S) my car shifted near stock until above 4500 when it turned into a race car and scratched 1-3. In (D) it still felt stock with added firmness in the upper RPMs. With the addition of the higher stall I've have to re-address pressure tables to re-acquire the smooth/unnoticeable stock shift. The looser converter allows for a quicker shift at lower RPMs therefore adding undesired firmness in (D) mode. It's still not perfect, but for my setup its pretty nice.
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:51 PM   #85
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I am installing the GEN 2 version of Protorque's converter in a few weeks..
We will have the tuning figured out for this unit, Joe has done alot of work on his newest GEN 2 verter...

Joe was very happy to have us be one of his testers and I will get data for u soon...
We run his stuff exclusively because its the best.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:07 PM   #86
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I am installing the GEN 2 version of Protorque's converter in a few weeks..
We will have the tuning figured out for this unit, Joe has done alot of work on his newest GEN 2 verter...

Joe was very happy to have us be one of his testers and I will get data for u soon...
We run his stuff exclusively because its the best.
Awesome, can't wait. What tuning software do you use?
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Old 07-29-2010, 12:16 PM   #87
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Old 08-19-2010, 08:45 PM   #88
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I am installing the GEN 2 version of Protorque's converter in a few weeks..
We will have the tuning figured out for this unit, Joe has done allot of work on his newest GEN 2 verter...

Joe was very happy to have us be one of his testers and I will get data for u soon...
We run his stuff exclusively because its the best.
Any updates? Currently working on a fix for the 17.8 psi pre-apply that will inevitably destroy the verter.
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Old 08-19-2010, 08:55 PM   #89
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Oh yeah. Sorry. I totaly forgot about this thread. I guess my Pro Torque converter is a Gen 2 as well. I've had in in for almost two months. First thing I can tell you is that you don't notice it at all driving. I let my dad drive the car and he asked if the stall was in. Secondly, Ted did not need to do anything to the tune. They bolted the converter in and I was on my way. I've had no issues since the install and about 1500 miles. I just took it on a trip down to DC from CT and in the 100 degree heat it was flawless. Stop and go on the Jersey Turnpike was not a problem. Which brings me to my next point. I have no trans cooler and my temps remain the same as stock. They did not increase at all.

At the track, I only got three passes, the 60' went from a 1.60 with the stock stall to a 1.48. This is on slicks. No doubt this thing will be in the very low 1.4's when the DA turns negative in the fall. It feels like it pulls the wheels. At least thats what it feels like. All in all The Pro Torque converter has been much more than I expected. I'm glad I trust Ted to put in the good stuff.
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Old 08-19-2010, 11:35 PM   #90
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Oh yeah. Sorry. I totally forgot about this thread. I guess my Pro Torque converter is a Gen 2 as well. I've had in in for almost two months. First thing I can tell you is that you don't notice it at all driving. I let my dad drive the car and he asked if the stall was in. Secondly, Ted did not need to do anything to the tune. They bolted the converter in and I was on my way. I've had no issues since the install and about 1500 miles. I just took it on a trip down to DC from CT and in the 100 degree heat it was flawless. Stop and go on the Jersey Turnpike was not a problem. Which brings me to my next point. I have no trans cooler and my temps remain the same as stock. They did not increase at all.

At the track, I only got three passes, the 60' went from a 1.60 with the stock stall to a 1.48. This is on slicks. No doubt this thing will be in the very low 1.4's when the DA turns negative in the fall. It feels like it pulls the wheels. At least thats what it feels like. All in all The Pro Torque converter has been much more than I expected. I'm glad I trust Ted to put in the good stuff.
Thanks for the update. I think Protorque uses a single disk clutch that hides the stepped apply pressure very well.That seems to be the case with everyones single disk converter. When you go to a multi disk system it seems to rear its ugly head. Having said that, you as well as every 6L80E owner are getting the pre-apply pressure of 17ish psi. This is very bad on the converter and wear can be seen on units with as little as 10K on them.

Does the Protorque guarantee a WOT lockup?
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Old 08-19-2010, 11:41 PM   #91
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Also, being supercharged puts/keeps the TCM in the high load tables. By that I mean your tranny is always seeing an enormous amount of power compared to stock and more than likely out of desired slip tables. I would be very interested to see a cruise/lockup log.
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Old 08-20-2010, 04:14 PM   #92
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Wacker, you last two posts are over my head but if it can be done using the SCT, would you like me to log some stuff for you? It would only be some around town driving and short highway runs. And it may take a week or to to get any info since I don't really use the car. Let me know.
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:35 PM   #93
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Joe has figured out the issues, I talked to him in lenght about what u are experiencing and neither me or superscharged with see this problemm

Joes fin and stator design makes for a stock like stall with good flash characteristics out of a 12" stock verter....
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Old 08-21-2010, 12:37 AM   #94
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Joe has figured out the issues, I talked to him in lenght about what u are experiencing and neither me or superscharged with see this problem

Joes fin and stator design makes for a stock like stall with good flash characteristics out of a 12" stock verter....
I know Joe makes good stuff. The reason your do not feel the pre-apply pressure is because of the single disk clutch. Joe has basically taken the stock converter, worked his magic, and re-sealed it back up. The Protorque retains the stock damper and single clutch element. Trust me, you are getting a pre-apply pressure, every 6L80E does. I know because I've ran a vet, truck, G8, and caddy OS in my Camaro. They all do it. What you will not get with a single disk converter is the ability to have WOT lockup with a good amount of power beyond stock or you'll have a very short converter life. Also, the 12" (300mm) converter is huge compared to a 248 or 258. What this translates to is more rotating mass regardless of stator used. I'd be curious to see a multi disk Protorque and how it reacts in this tranny. I think Yank was building one. Circle D is sending me another verter with less clutches possibly in the 278mm realm. The trick is to retain the high HP WOT lockup while eliminating the converter drag caused by the 17ish pre-apply pressure.
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Old 08-21-2010, 12:39 AM   #95
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Wacker, you last two posts are over my head but if it can be done using the SCT, would you like me to log some stuff for you? It would only be some around town driving and short highway runs. And it may take a week or to to get any info since I don't really use the car. Let me know.
What is an SCT? If your capable of selecting PID's, select TCC Solenoid pressure.
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Old 08-21-2010, 10:50 AM   #96
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What is an SCT?
SCT is a handheld flash tuner.

Question: are you running Circle Ds dual disk convertor... I've been in contact with them and trying to figure out which one to go with...
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Old 08-21-2010, 04:00 PM   #97
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SCT is a handheld flash tuner.

Question: are you running Circle Ds dual disk convertor... I've been in contact with them and trying to figure out which one to go with...
Like I mentioned earlier, the 258 multi disk I run drags a little until line pressure is allowed to ramp in above the 17.8psi. It does stall quick do to its size. The same converter with a single disk does not drag, however its WOT holding capacity is far less. I'm going to test another version in the coming weeks. If your planning on WOT lockup you might want to hold off a bit until I get some data, or you could probably test one too. The Circle D converter is freekin sweet compared to stock. You really see the quality in the billet cover. I gained a solid 2 tenths at a 3k DA. Should see around 3-4 when the colder temps arrive

I doubt he'd be able to log TCC apply pressure then.
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:05 PM   #98
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U are totally correct, the stock size verter joe is building is for this reason
Not dissagreeing with u at all.

I am sure someone will figure out the multi disc stuff but I have tested MANY verters over the yrs in 4L60's and locking them up was worth only mph....This was of course on NA setups ranging from 11.90 to 10.80...

My 10.60 383 LT1 nitrous car did pick up .1 locking up at the top of 2nd....

Supercharged is propably running a version of my 12" too
Just goes to show u that a 9.5" isnt always needed...


I am going to base line my car next week (NA)
Then do the verter and go the following week (NA)
I will keep records of DA to compare, sit tight
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:43 PM   #99
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U are totally correct, the stock size verter joe is building is for this reason
Not dissagreeing with u at all.

I am sure someone will figure out the multi disc stuff but I have tested MANY verters over the yrs in 4L60's and locking them up was worth only mph....This was of course on NA setups ranging from 11.90 to 10.80...

My 10.60 383 LT1 nitrous car did pick up .1 locking up at the top of 2nd....

Supercharged is propably running a version of my 12" too
Just goes to show u that a 9.5" isnt always needed...


I am going to base line my car next week (NA)
Then do the verter and go the following week (NA)
I will keep records of DA to compare, sit tight
Keep us posted...
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:50 PM   #100
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When I reference WOT lockup this includes applying full throttle after TCC application. I personally prefer the TCC to stay engaged after lockup. On an FI motor a single disk is not going to hold for long if any.
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