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Old 08-22-2010, 09:55 PM   #101
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Well aware or multi disc verters with fi
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:09 PM   #102
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The Protorque converter uses the Stock Lock up clutch, becasuse we feel that it can handle a lot of torque.

Many guys are putting alot of power through the stock converters with no failures.

There are two ways to look at multi vs single, Multi has more surface area but gives up Mean Radius so it may be a wash

If Wacker is right about the 17ish psi pre apply pressure, (no doubt) a multi clutch will also increase the drag while unlocked.

The larger single disc May actually have more capacity due to Mean Radius, and for now let the numbers speak for themselves.

4-5 Tenths ET, with Zero loss of Driveability, no additional heat, for 829.00 is the best bang for the buck.

This one stalls at 2600, Higher stall will probably blow away the tires.

We are looking for a complete package and the Protorque had Come through with flying colors.

Think about this, a daily driver that clicks off 10.50s was unheard of just a few years ago.

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Old 08-23-2010, 10:07 PM   #103
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The Protorque converter uses the Stock Lock up clutch, because we feel that it can handle a lot of torque.

Many guys are putting allot of power through the stock converters with no failures.

There are two ways to look at multi vs single, Multi has more surface area but gives up Mean Radius so it may be a wash

If Wacker is right about the 17ish psi pre apply pressure, (no doubt) a multi clutch will also increase the drag while unlocked.

The larger single disc May actually have more capacity due to Mean Radius, and for now let the numbers speak for themselves.

4-5 Tenths ET, with Zero loss of Driveability, no additional heat, for 829.00 is the best bang for the buck.

This one stalls at 2600, Higher stall will probably blow away the tires.

We are looking for a complete package and the Protorque had Come through with flying colors.

Think about this, a daily driver that clicks off 10.50s was unheard of just a few years ago.

Ted.
Thanks Ted. The 17ish psi is only on before lockup, no drag while unlocked. I agree the Protorque converter (with stock lockup) will hold good power, but not as much as a multi disk. Are they working on getting more stall out of the unit? 2600 is okay for a blown motor but way too low for the NA guys.
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Old 08-23-2010, 11:50 PM   #104
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Why do u need a multi with your setup, its na?

Yes Joe just send me mine, it should stall to 3000 and for my cam only setup it should be fine..
If I go centri after the cam I think it will work too

The PD blowers are the ones that dont need alot of stall
Case in piont teds customers car, very impressive to say the least...
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Old 08-24-2010, 08:22 AM   #105
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Why do u need a multi with your setup, its na?

Yes Joe just send me mine, it should stall to 3000 and for my cam only setup it should be fine..
If I go centri after the cam I think it will work too

The PD blowers are the ones that dont need alot of stall
Case in piont teds customers car, very impressive to say the least...
I will be FI soon, maybe next summer. Yes that car is ridiculous, I am jealous.
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Old 08-24-2010, 09:06 AM   #106
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Thanks Ted. The 17ish psi is only on before lockup, no drag while unlocked. I agree the Protorque converter (with stock lockup) will hold good power, but not as much as a multi disk. Are they working on getting more stall out of the unit? 2600 is okay for a blown motor but way too low for the NA guys.
He can put the stall anywhere I want it for each specific application.

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Old 08-24-2010, 09:13 AM   #107
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Let me add this.

The Torque converter is the single most important part to bring any combination together.

Torque converters have been marketed by stall speed, Stall speed is NOT the WAY to Choose a Converter.

Here is why, Stall speed is in Direct Relation to INPUT Torque, so a converter that is sold as a 2800 may only stall at 2000 on one car and 3500 on another.

And Stall speed is only part of the equation, Torque multiplication, and efficiency are HUGE Factors that are not on the sticker on the box.

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Old 08-24-2010, 01:23 PM   #108
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Pardon my continued ignorance Ted but how do you find out what those other factors are
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Old 08-24-2010, 01:37 PM   #109
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Pardon my continued ignorance Ted but how do you find out what those other factors are
You look at the Results we post, and trust we will get you set up with the right converter for your specific needs.

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Old 08-24-2010, 06:49 PM   #110
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To piggy back on Ted...To make sure you get the right converter for your application, you should always give the converter builder as much info as possible. A good shop will set the converter up to your car and your car alone and if they get it wrong the first try they will fix it for free.
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Old 08-24-2010, 07:08 PM   #111
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I went with the Circle D because of quality, reputation, customer service, and I firmly believe the smaller 258mm converter will stall quicker than a 300mm unit with the same setup. It simply takes more power to turn a larger diameter/heavier unit. IMO you can't go wrong by choosing Protorque, Circle D, or Yank. All three have the best reputation/record in the industry.
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Old 08-25-2010, 11:08 PM   #112
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I mentioned earlier the converter I run has two clutch surfaces, Chris clarified this for me letting me know by design it has three.
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:37 PM   #113
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Vince has fixed the pre-apply and desired slip issue. You can now have full lockup at any vehicle speed any power setting with whatever psi you desire (seal capacity dependent). Any vehicle with the 6L80E will now have the option to run whatever converter they deem necessary. As an added bonus, once your TCM is flashed with the custom OS, you can overlay tuning software like HP and still retain the custom settings. What this means is you can buy the baddest converter Circle D makes, flash your TCM using Trifecta software, then re-flash your custom HP tune. Or you can simply have Vince tune your 6L80E all together your choice. Either option will be available through Trifecta performance or Circle D transmissions soon. Vince has been logging all weekend and I will start tomorrow.
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Old 08-30-2010, 07:52 AM   #114
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Vince has fixed the pre-apply and desired slip issue. You can now have full lockup at any vehicle speed any power setting with whatever psi you desire (seal capacity dependent). Any vehicle with the 6L80E will now have the option to run whatever converter they deem necessary. As an added bonus, once your TCM is flashed with the custom OS, you can overlay tuning software like HP and still retain the custom settings. What this means is you can buy the baddest converter Circle D makes, flash your TCM using Trifecta software, then re-flash your custom HP tune. Or you can simply have Vince tune your 6L80E all together your choice. Either option will be available through Trifecta performance or Circle D transmissions soon. Vince has been logging all weekend and I will start tomorrow.
Good Job Guys, Technology Moving Forward.

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Old 08-30-2010, 01:11 PM   #115
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just called and left message with them,

so what are our options to get this modified O/S??,, can he modify our (already modified) hpt file?
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Old 10-20-2010, 06:08 PM   #116
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just called and left message with them,

so what are our options to get this modified O/S??,, can he modify our (already modified) hpt file?
Anyone interested in prolonging their converter's life should PM me.
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Old 10-20-2010, 09:39 PM   #117
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Vince has fixed the pre-apply and desired slip issue. You can now have full lockup at any vehicle speed any power setting with whatever psi you desire (seal capacity dependent). Any vehicle with the 6L80E will now have the option to run whatever converter they deem necessary. As an added bonus, once your TCM is flashed with the custom OS, you can overlay tuning software like HP and still retain the custom settings. What this means is you can buy the baddest converter Circle D makes, flash your TCM using Trifecta software, then re-flash your custom HP tune. Or you can simply have Vince tune your 6L80E all together your choice. Either option will be available through Trifecta performance or Circle D transmissions soon. Vince has been logging all weekend and I will start tomorrow.
Nice... I spoke to Circle D yesterday and they mentioned getting a flash tune from Trifecta... I think this post explains it quite well... Thanks!

Edit: Circle D on order...
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Old 10-21-2010, 07:15 AM   #118
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We have a New record on the books with the Protorque JRE spec converters, SuperchargedSS car went 10.19 et 130 mph.

We put 4.10 gears in the car and are heading to the F-Body Nationals At Island Dragway in Great Meadows NJ. on Saturday.

If all goes well we are looking for that elusive 9 second time slip.

Ted.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:12 PM   #119
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We have a New record on the books with the Protorque JRE spec converters, SuperchargedSS car went 10.19 et 130 mph.

We put 4.10 gears in the car and are heading to the F-Body Nationals At Island Dragway in Great Meadows NJ. on Saturday.

If all goes well we are looking for that elusive 9 second time slip.

Ted.

AND...??? Did they follow up on this in another thread that I missed?
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:37 PM   #120
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AND...??? Did they follow up on this in another thread that I missed?
He was sick and could not make the event.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:52 PM   #121
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He was sick and could not make the event.

Thanks for letting us know. Hope he feels better.

I'm getting ready to put in a cam and torque converter in my car and I'm following this thread and many others trying to learn about this stuff. Thanks for all the great information.
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Old 12-16-2010, 04:21 PM   #122
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I wish I'm waiting and hoping to get Z28 If not, I'll have to try to put together my vision of Z28

While I'm not calling you out on your tuned 6L80 shifting faster than the GTR, it's my understanding the tranny in that car is a clutchless manual; I don't know that an auto' can shift faster than these trannies. I don't honestly know though...

As far as higher efficiency, it is kinda' relative. The SS3800 I had on my '02 was more efficient than the OEM converter; I gained about 2 MPH with only the converter change - and a lot on ET. A lot has to do with the stator and orientation of the fins/veins. Typically - a lot of the time, the higher stall speed you go, you can "loose" HP, but you can gain ET by keeping the engine in it's powerband more throughout the pass. You can aritificially lock the converter and get HP "back", but just because the dyno' shows a drop in HP doesn't mean the car won't go faster, by virtue of the other influences a high quality converter will add. For example: My car showed a nearly 50 RWHP drop when unlocking the converter. I still improved my MPH through the traps, so I really didn't loose any power. Another way to effectively gain HP is by going with a smaller/lighter converter. The OEM converter on my '02 was about 50 lbs. The Yank was just under 30 lbs.; it takes less HP to turn less weight, so I effectively got more HP. STR and shift extension can also influence performance at the track or on the street, too, and with good tuning, there is absolutely no reason a stalled A6 won't be able to at least keep up with the best M6 driver. I would almost guarantee one would be able to get a better 60' time than that M6 driver.
Great post! This info really tied together a lot of concepts that I've been learning and coming to understand lately.
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:34 PM   #123
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Great post! This info really tied together a lot of concepts that I've been learning and coming to understand lately.
Thanks I'm hoping the concepts of what I was trying to say came across. I can go into many things a fair amount more, however, much the theory of what I've learned has come Yank's website, and I'm not sure it still has that stuff posted. I can tell you that my car, and my brother's car proved the theories of efficiency, STR, and shift extension quite well, IMO. Ultimately, his car was a touch faster because my car's tuning wasn't quite done, but even if I were able to finally get a good pass from it after the tuning was completed, I don't think it would've quite matched his car. He ran a 12.4 on a lid, catback, MT DRs, 3.73s, and a crapped canned tune. My car pulled a 12.5, hitting the limiter a few times on the 2-3 shift, running the same mods', with only a unfinished tranny tune, and OEM 3.23s. I think his car might have had a 12.2-.3 in it in the fall when it was nice, dry, and cold around here, because that 12.4 was in the summer in 90* temps. Mine was in the summer, too, but I'll never know what she would've run

I don't know if the Gen 5s are going to benefit, as much, from the converters, as the 4-speed tranny guys. My guess is the gear spacing is the biggest factor, and the spread on the 4-speed trannies was really long, especially on the 1-2. I know it's a little long on the 6L80s, but I don't really think it's as great as the 4L60s. The overall ratios are shorter on the 6L's, too, to my understanding, so, again, I just don't know if the gains are going to be quite as much. Also, it seems like many of the trannies I've watched in videos converters are locking up during the run. I know ours didn't lock - we were always running unlocked, which made me that much more of a believer in the converter's efficiency.
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:00 PM   #124
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Ted has his info right on on the TC. As a fellow drag racer your combo is not worth a dang w/out the right TC.
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:19 PM   #125
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Thanks I'm hoping the concepts of what I was trying to say came across. I can go into many things a fair amount more, however, much the theory of what I've learned has come Yank's website, and I'm not sure it still has that stuff posted. I can tell you that my car, and my brother's car proved the theories of efficiency, STR, and shift extension quite well, IMO. Ultimately, his car was a touch faster because my car's tuning wasn't quite done, but even if I were able to finally get a good pass from it after the tuning was completed, I don't think it would've quite matched his car. He ran a 12.4 on a lid, catback, MT DRs, 3.73s, and a crapped canned tune. My car pulled a 12.5, hitting the limiter a few times on the 2-3 shift, running the same mods', with only a unfinished tranny tune, and OEM 3.23s. I think his car might have had a 12.2-.3 in it in the fall when it was nice, dry, and cold around here, because that 12.4 was in the summer in 90* temps. Mine was in the summer, too, but I'll never know what she would've run

I don't know if the Gen 5s are going to benefit, as much, from the converters, as the 4-speed tranny guys. My guess is the gear spacing is the biggest factor, and the spread on the 4-speed trannies was really long, especially on the 1-2. I know it's a little long on the 6L80s, but I don't really think it's as great as the 4L60s. The overall ratios are shorter on the 6L's, too, to my understanding, so, again, I just don't know if the gains are going to be quite as much. Also, it seems like many of the trannies I've watched in videos converters are locking up during the run. I know ours didn't lock - we were always running unlocked, which made me that much more of a believer in the converter's efficiency.
I've gained .5 with a 3500 stall unlocked. I still see too low of an RPM after shift completion so the next converter will be a looser 4000 stall. My goal is to see no more than a 1000 RPM drop after the shift. My tuning strategy with a custom converter will have the 4K converter feeling more like a 2500K for part throttle driving. Currently my 3500K feels really nice with the tune I'm running. The converter is built with special friction material designed for continuous slip (just like stock) so I apply it with a min psi value at 10MPH while managing the slip with desired slip tables. I don't fully lock it until 35MPH which makes for great drivability and pretty darn good fuel economy for my stall.
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2010 IOM 2SS/RS A6, Tuned by Me, ARH/NoCats, Borla Touring, Vararam CAI, G-Force 9" with 4.10's, Circle D 4500K, (Skinnies/Slicks, and Bogarts all around 24MPG


11.6 @ 113 1000 DA

www.6l80tuning.com www.6l90tuning.com
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