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Old 07-07-2010, 07:51 PM   #71
Supercharged SS
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I have the newest version,(I think the 4th or 5th version) comming from Pro Torque that they specd for my car. Ted will be installing so I know he will do whatever is needed and not release the car until he is satisfied.
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Old 07-07-2010, 08:28 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Supercharged SS View Post
I have the newest version,(I think the 4th or 5th version) coming from Pro Torque that they specd for my car. Ted will be installing so I know he will do whatever is needed and not release the car until he is satisfied.
Don't know him personally but he seems like a good dude.
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Old 07-07-2010, 09:07 PM   #73
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I know the HD trucks use the same stock verter and one would have to assume they demand full lockup all the time for towing. Otherwise the converter would'nt last a month.


this is right from the gm service manual,, i think finding the o/s that uses full lock up will be the key to integrating it into out tcm:


A torque converter with an electronically controlled capacity clutch (ECCC). ECCC was developed to reduce the possibility of noise, vibration, or chuggle caused by TCC apply. In RWD 6-Speed transmissions, this slippage can range from 0-50 RPM. Full lockup (0 RPM slip) is still available on some applications. TCC may apply in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th gears. The specific TCC apply points and the amount of clutch slippage are determined by a number of operating conditions, including throttle position, vehicle speed, gear, as well as specific vehicle application. Transmission fluid temperature will also affect TCC apply points.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:48 PM   #74
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Also...When AFM activates it puts the TCC into a state of commanded slip. Most logs show around 50 RPM slip while still applying pressure. GM did this to aid in the smooth transition from 4 to 8 cylinders. What this means for us aftermarket converter guys is a very short converter life unless AFM is deactivated. Most if not all tuners will do this, even most handhelds will as well. You can deactivate AFM without a tune with this step by step procedure.

1. Select M on the shift selector.
2. Tap up to display 6th
3. Tap down to display 5th
4. Tap back up to 6th

At this point AFM will be deactivated and won't reactivate until the shift lever is moved back to the D position.
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:01 PM   #75
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Wacker, Ted is Ted Jannetty. He is the builder and tuner of my car. He said it was plug and play, those were his word exactly. He is working with Joe jr from protorque on developing a better version gen 5 converter. I trust Ted 200 percent. I'll mention this thread and see what he thinks,
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:52 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Supercharged SS View Post
Wacker, Ted is Ted Jannetty. He is the builder and tuner of my car. He said it was plug and play, those were his word exactly. He is working with Joe jr from protorque on developing a better version gen 5 converter. I trust Ted 200 percent. I'll mention this thread and see what he thinks,
Id be curious what Joe comes up with/changes with his latest version. Im pretty sure I have gen 1 as Joe said I was the 1st Camaro, and 2nd GM with the new design. Even though Ted says its plug and play, does he plan on tuning your trans to the new converter?
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:53 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Supercharged SS View Post
Wacker, Ted is Ted Jannetty. He is the builder and tuner of my car. He said it was plug and play, those were his word exactly. He is working with Joe jr from pro torque on developing a better version gen 5 converter. I trust Ted 200 percent. I'll mention this thread and see what he thinks,
Ted has a really good rep on here. All info I have provided is based on over a year of logging/tuning this thing using two types of tuning software and two types off loggers/scanners. There may be a reason why pro-torque is still working on the Camaro verter. Plug and Play for an experienced tuner like Ted may mean something totally different to the laymen.
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:55 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by PatrickfromMD View Post
Id be curious what Joe comes up with/changes with his latest version. Im pretty sure I have gen 1 as Joe said I was the 1st Camaro, and 2nd GM with the new design. Even though Ted says its plug and play, does he plan on tuning your trans to the new converter?
I would hope so...Pretty sure someone used EFI live to tune yours correct?
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:46 PM   #79
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I would hope so...Pretty sure someone used EFI live to tune yours correct?
Chuck at Westchester Corvettes tuned both the engine and trans at the time the convertor was installed.

A Couple of test methods were performed:

1) Seat of the pants (see like below link and fast forward to 38-43 seconds, yep, thats Chuck driving , Joe with the death grip on the roof riding shotgun ) http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1521425 - post1521425
and this with .05 miles on the new convertor!


2) They data logged some runs using EFI live. Later they analyzed the logs watching stall, recovery , slippage and some parameters I have no idea about. Joe took the info, and had planned to tweak the design before building another one.
Its a conservative variant on his new design, so its very treatable, but at the same time, allows a much better launch
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:05 AM   #80
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Still tuning the new verter and thought I would add some updates. Both D & S mode command a desired slip based on a multitude of parameters (load,TPS,Speed,etc). What I've had to do is modify lockup to occur no sooner than 67 MPH and be off by 62 MPH. Unless this action is taken I see anywhere from 50 to 100 RPM slip with TCC line pressure applied (VERY BAD). You can not feel this slip, only see it in the log, unless it is what I like to call "hunting". Hunting is the locking and unlocking of the verter while the TCM tries to achieve a desired slip with a converter not designed to do so. Interesting enough TUTD mode neither hunts nor slips at any speed, RPM, or load. Once these specific tables are unmasked I believe I'll be able to lock in D & S at any time I want without any slip.
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:25 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Wacker View Post
Still tuning the new verter and thought I would add some updates. Both D & S mode command a desired slip based on a multitude of parameters (load,TPS,Speed,etc). What I've had to do is modify lockup to occur no sooner than 67 MPH and be off by 62 MPH. Unless this action is taken I see anywhere from 50 to 100 RPM slip with TCC line pressure applied (VERY BAD). You can not feel this slip, only see it in the log, unless it is what I like to call "hunting". Hunting is the locking and unlocking of the verter while the TCM tries to achieve a desired slip with a converter not designed to do so. Interesting enough TUTD mode neither hunts nor slips at any speed, RPM, or load. Once these specific tables are unmasked I believe I'll be able to lock in D & S at any time I want without any slip.
Unless you know something I don't (or your software works differently than mine) you won't be available to achieve zero slip because PWM can't be turned off in the 6L80 like it can in the 4L series transmission.
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:31 PM   #82
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Unless you know something I don't (or your software works differently than mine) you won't be available to achieve zero slip because PWM can't be turned off in the 6L80E like it can in the 4L series transmission.
Vince @ Trifecta performance writes his own software and has/can manipulate any table/code in the ECM/TCM. It's just a matter of finding the table/code that correlates to the desired outcome. Should know something fairly soon as we both just got back from vacation and are logging our butts off.
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:38 PM   #83
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I wish I could add something to this thread but you guys are talking way above my head. My converter is going in this Thursday so I'll keep you updated as I get the info. I'm pretty sure that the new Pro-Torque is a 12" converter and isn't supposed to generate much more heat. I'll def keep and eye on that. My trans temps now are 180ish. Ted also mentioned something about the billet stator having double fins to lookup quicker...does that make any sense? Hopefully Ted will chime in.
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Old 07-18-2010, 04:08 PM   #84
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I wish I could add something to this thread but you guys are talking way above my head. My converter is going in this Thursday so I'll keep you updated as I get the info. I'm pretty sure that the new Pro-Torque is a 12" converter and isn't supposed to generate much more heat. I'll def keep and eye on that. My trans temps now are 180ish. Ted also mentioned something about the billet stator having double fins to lookup quicker...does that make any sense? Hopefully Ted will chime in.
I'm sure a converter builder could add some insight to the double fins. Currently the TCC only applies what pressure it deems necessary to achieve the preset desired slip, as load is increased it applies more pressure until it hits the cap of 109.9. There is also a ramp table that allows how fast the TCC applies pressure. Would be interesting to see if changing the internals of the converter have any affect on that. IMO the more guys we have looking at this thing the faster we are going to figure it out. Keep in mind, the tuning business is about making money. If you can do something no one else can then you will have more money in your pocket. Some scanners like HP can lock the converter by instantly applying 109.9 psi. This is good for logging and testing but much too violent at anything above 50% TPS. It does however prove that we can bypass any PWM setting via code manipulation. I have tuned a couple Camaros using HP. I currently run an HP tranny tune and Vince's' engine tune. I will say up until I installed the high stall converter in (S) my car shifted near stock until above 4500 when it turned into a race car and scratched 1-3. In (D) it still felt stock with added firmness in the upper RPMs. With the addition of the higher stall I've have to re-address pressure tables to re-acquire the smooth/unnoticeable stock shift. The looser converter allows for a quicker shift at lower RPMs therefore adding undesired firmness in (D) mode. It's still not perfect, but for my setup its pretty nice.
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