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Old 12-09-2010, 12:35 AM   #726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Emma View Post
3.6 if you want to make 7 to 8 lbs of boost with headers. If no headers, then the 3.8 will make about the same boost.

You have headers don't you? I do. That's why I went with the 3.6" pulley. If you look at my dyno sheet, you can see the boost varied between 7 and 8 and my car made 500 rwhp. Still nice and safe for the engine internals, but oh so fun.
I remember you telling me to get a 3.6 and it is sound advice.

I just wonder if the 3.4 can work and maybe be nanied down a bit to be safe enough for my set-up. Reason is so I don't have to buy the 3.6

I want over 500 rwhp, don't really mind not getting up toward 550 rwhp, I'm not chasing power. Just would like to save some cash and not have to buy the 3.6 because a 3.4 or 3.8 will come with my kit.
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:34 AM   #727
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Totally missed the COTW!!

Congrats friend. Well deserved!

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Old 12-09-2010, 06:22 AM   #728
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I remember you telling me to get a 3.6 and it is sound advice.

I just wonder if the 3.4 can work and maybe be nanied down a bit to be safe enough for my set-up. Reason is so I don't have to buy the 3.6

I want over 500 rwhp, don't really mind not getting up toward 550 rwhp, I'm not chasing power. Just would like to save some cash and not have to buy the 3.6 because a 3.4 or 3.8 will come with my kit.
The pulley choice is really based on your driving style/preference. 3.4 will push the envelope harder. You have to ask yourself what's cheaper - a pulley or burnt pistons? Not saying that you will burn a piston, just that you may wish to drive it with a 3.8 and stay safe until you get used to it. BTW - Is there a SPECIFIC reason why they will not let you order it with a 3.6 pulley instead of the 3.8 or 3.4? Or at least purchase it as a small upcharge versus a full price hit.
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:05 AM   #729
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Considering how important the pulley is to how the supercharger works with your motor, isn't it best to get the right pulley to start with? You could order a 3.6" pulley and sell the 3.4 to someone here in the forums who is wanting to upgrade their engine internal to handle the extra boost.

I don't know the cost of a 3.6" pulley, but I have to imagine it's worth it to get the right one to start with.
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:30 AM   #730
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The pulley choice is really based on your driving style/preference. 3.4 will push the envelope harder. You have to ask yourself what's cheaper - a pulley or burnt pistons? Not saying that you will burn a piston, just that you may wish to drive it with a 3.8 and stay safe until you get used to it. BTW - Is there a SPECIFIC reason why they will not let you order it with a 3.6 pulley instead of the 3.8 or 3.4? Or at least purchase it as a small upcharge versus a full price hit.
I think the blowers thay have came with the 3.8 or 3.4 none of the kits have a 3.6 so he'd have to order one.

If I remember correctly.

Bruce,

Is there a problem with say going with the 3.4 and keeping the AFR safe like low 11's...

I know it's counter productive but is that still a safe option?
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:18 AM   #731
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I think the blowers thay have came with the 3.8 or 3.4 none of the kits have a 3.6 so he'd have to order one.

If I remember correctly.

Bruce,

Is there a problem with say going with the 3.4 and keeping the AFR safe like low 11's...

I know it's counter productive but is that still a safe option?
You can run rich to be safe. Keep the A/F in the 11.5 - 11.8 range. Of course doing this will help cool the charge down a little more BUT...that also will lower the hp/tq output which was kinda the reason to go to the smaller pulley, but I think it is a pretty safe tradeoff.

It's a bit of a game - do you stay conservative or do you push it a little knowing there may be more expensive consequences? The chances of failure occurring is pretty remote, but it happens.

Here is a good recent read for Randy of someone who just toasted a piston with 8 psi of boost: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119155

...but they were running 12's for an FI A/F ratio too.

When it comes down to it, it's all in the tune. He needs a good local tuner.

..and if that fails - RACE GAS, METH & Nitrous. Nothing like a nuclear explosion in front of your buddies
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:24 AM   #732
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I told PQ he and Bonnie could come up here to IPS and stay with us while IPS does the install and tunes his car. IPS Brandon will get you that 3.6" pulley and Eric will make your car sing with a nice tune. (pun intended.)

BTW, the damage speedster pointed out is the kind of thing that can happen if you don't have a boost-a-pump and you have too much boost. I got the boost-a-pump just to be safe. Besides, it's fun to say... try it... "boost-a-pump." Atta boy!
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:28 AM   #733
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I told PQ he and Bonnie could come up here to IPS and stay with us while IPS does the install and tunes his car. IPS Brandon will get you that 3.6" pulley and Eric will make your car sing with a nice tune. (pun intended.)

BTW, the damage speedster pointed out is the kind of thing that can happen if you don't have a boost-a-pump and you have too much boost. I got the boost-a-pump just to be safe. Besides, it's fun to say... try it... "boost-a-pump." Atta boy!
The good news is when he tunes it the tuner will know if he's starving it for fuel or not... So with a safe tune it may not be needed. I don't have one and my AFR never gets above 11.8.

but if you have the cash available a "boost a pump"... is a good investment.
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:51 AM   #734
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One question.....

..... How bad do ya wanna beat Chris???

I assume (expect) there will be a grudge race at the fest?
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:08 PM   #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedster View Post
The pulley choice is really based on your driving style/preference. 3.4 will push the envelope harder. You have to ask yourself what's cheaper - a pulley or burnt pistons? Not saying that you will burn a piston, just that you may wish to drive it with a 3.8 and stay safe until you get used to it. BTW - Is there a SPECIFIC reason why they will not let you order it with a 3.6 pulley instead of the 3.8 or 3.4? Or at least purchase it as a small upcharge versus a full price hit.
Ya. The kit I'm buying already has a 3.8 and he has a 3.4 and will give me either, but he would have to order, and pay for, a 3.6 and so I'd obviously have to buy it seperate to cover his cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedster View Post
You can run rich to be safe. Keep the A/F in the 11.5 - 11.8 range. Of course doing this will help cool the charge down a little more BUT...that also will lower the hp/tq output which was kinda the reason to go to the smaller pulley, but I think it is a pretty safe tradeoff.

It's a bit of a game - do you stay conservative or do you push it a little knowing there may be more expensive consequences? The chances of failure occurring is pretty remote, but it happens.

Here is a good recent read for Randy of someone who just toasted a piston with 8 psi of boost: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119155
...but they were running 12's for an FI A/F ratio too.

When it comes down to it, it's all in the tune. He needs a good local tuner.

..and if that fails - RACE GAS, METH & Nitrous. Nothing like a nuclear explosion in front of your buddies
Oh. I can certainly blow some s*** up. lol

But I don't want to have to pay big later for not spending the 120.00 or so now. I was just wondering.

Even if I nannied down the tune with a 3.4, would that would leave the potential for a big problem should the tune get out of adjustment for whatever reason?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Emma View Post
I told PQ he and Bonnie could come up here to IPS and stay with us while IPS does the install and tunes his car. IPS Brandon will get you that 3.6" pulley and Eric will make your car sing with a nice tune. (pun intended.)

BTW, the damage speedster pointed out is the kind of thing that can happen if you don't have a boost-a-pump and you have too much boost. I got the boost-a-pump just to be safe. Besides, it's fun to say... try it... "boost-a-pump." Atta boy!
Booostahpuhmp............
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:10 PM   #736
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One question.....

..... How bad do ya wanna beat Chris???

I assume (expect) there will be a grudge race at the fest?


If I hear "My car is fast" one more time, I'll ................ why I'll............. ok, I'm getting the 3.2
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Old 12-09-2010, 01:45 PM   #737
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jesus...3.2 sounds like fun! DOIT
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:32 PM   #738
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Even if I nannied down the tune with a 3.4, would that would leave the potential for a big problem should the tune get out of adjustment for whatever reason?
It's not the tune you have to worry about. Everyone assumes that gas is all the same. It is NOT. You shoot for 93 octane. Occasionally it may be lower. It may get water/condensation in the tank (both the gas station and your car). Ethanol over 30 days old can cause separation. All kinds of factors. The gas you buy can vary a lot in quality. The tune itself should never really "get out of adjustment" unless a sensor or injector goes bad.
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Old 12-09-2010, 06:03 PM   #739
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It's not the tune you have to worry about. Everyone assumes that gas is all the same. It is NOT. You shoot for 93 octane. Occasionally it may be lower. It may get water/condensation in the tank (both the gas station and your car). Ethanol over 30 days old can cause separation. All kinds of factors. The gas you buy can vary a lot in quality. The tune itself should never really "get out of adjustment" unless a sensor or injector goes bad.
I guess that's what I mean. Pump start to quit, injector, sensor, something physical/mechanical.

It doesn't sound like it would be smart for me to do it. I'd hate to destroy my engine over a simple 150.00 or so.

BUT, if I wanted to do a cam later, which I probably will, would I want to get a 3.4 and nanny it for the meantime anyway? Or would you get the 3.6 or 3.8 for now and buy a 3.4 at the time you do the cam and swap them?

Just brainstorming for now. I think he's gonna send the stuff to me Monday. I'll have him paid and ready to go by then.

I may end up in Houston for the install. I just don't know anyone anywhere close to hear that I feel great about.

Zebra may have found a good place in Pensecola, but we'll see.



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jesus...3.2 sounds like fun! DOIT
Let me borrow your car for a few days.......
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Old 12-09-2010, 06:30 PM   #740
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I'm not sure exactly what you mean in your above post, PQ, but the 3.4" pulley will produce more boost than the 3.6" (smaller pulley, more boost). The standard maggie kit for a stock car comes with the 3.8" pulley. You have headers (like I do) which produces more air flow. So, to get the same amount of boost through a motor with headers, Magnuson recommended that I get the 3.6" pulley to produce the same boost as the 3.8" pulley makes in a stock motor.

I am also planning to get a cam. I am not planning to change the 3.6" pulley at that time.

Sincerely,
Little Miss Know it All

PS: I only know a little about this because I just went through the same set of decisions and smart people taught me some good stuff!
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Old 12-09-2010, 06:38 PM   #741
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Here in lies my problem with FI. I am afraid of the added power and what it will do to the other parts like tranny, bottom end, rear end etc.. I am thinking of just building mine.
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Old 12-09-2010, 06:48 PM   #742
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I too was afraid of the added power. Now that I have it, I love it and fear no longer... it's addictive. I blame GTAHVIT.
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:26 PM   #743
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It doesn't sound like it would be smart for me to do it. I'd hate to destroy my engine over a simple 150.00 or so.

150.00? That is like 3 hours of partying for you. Take a break for one night and you'll have it covered...
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:27 PM   #744
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Here in lies my problem with FI. I am afraid of the added power and what it will do to the other parts like tranny, bottom end, rear end etc.. I am thinking of just building mine.
You'll have fun whatever method you choose.

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I too was afraid of the added power. Now that I have it, I love it and fear no longer... it's addictive. I blame GTAHVIT.

Yeah, he is just a bad influence.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:14 PM   #745
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Originally Posted by Darth_Emma View Post
I'm not sure exactly what you mean in your above post, PQ, but the 3.4" pulley will produce more boost than the 3.6" (smaller pulley, more boost). The standard maggie kit for a stock car comes with the 3.8" pulley. You have headers (like I do) which produces more air flow. So, to get the same amount of boost through a motor with headers, Magnuson recommended that I get the 3.6" pulley to produce the same boost as the 3.8" pulley makes in a stock motor.

I am also planning to get a cam. I am not planning to change the 3.6" pulley at that time.

Sincerely,
Little Miss Know it All

PS: I only know a little about this because I just went through the same set of decisions and smart people taught me some good stuff!
I actually think he should go with the 3.8 as as safe start. My Car is a 3.8 and I've got 3" exhaust all the way back with 1 7/8" headers.

BUT! if he chose to go with the 3.4 he could get a real rich tune, and keep the car safe.

The guys that appear to be blowing pistons seem to have near 10 lbs and an AFR near 12:1 and are running WOT for too long in too high of a gear 5th and 6th.... (making an assumption)

either way we have to remember that the engine, if it detects the knock/detonation, will retard the timing... remember my exhaust rattling on the tunnel brace problem?

As long as the tuner doesn't decrease the sensitivity of the knock sensor, the ecm will retard the timing and go into "safe mode" preventing you from blowing it up...

But regardless, the 3 things you should never do at the same time for very long are run max boost at max RPM with max load on the stock bottom end.

In other words don't go WOT in 5th or 6th gear at redline for any length of time...

That's what will cause piston ring landings to fail before anything else....

I'd be willing to bet the engines we've seen blow did so at WOT... and not in 4th gear unless they'd been run hard before dropping down a gear....
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:53 PM   #746
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I too was afraid of the added power. Now that I have it, I love it and fear no longer... it's addictive. I blame GTAHVIT.
I blame all this on YA'LL CHRIS, EMMA, PQ, and BRUCE look what you have done to me

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You'll have fun whatever method you choose.


I appreciate it Bruce, but I bet my wallet won't


[/QUOTE]Yeah, he is just a bad influence. [/QUOTE]

And that is where it all started
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:05 PM   #747
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In other words don't go WOT in 5th or 6th gear at redline for any length of time...

That's what will cause piston ring landings to fail before anything else....
In addition to GTA's scenarios is mashing the pedal at lower rpms in higher gears. This is the same reason you don't lug an engine while dyno testing...BOOM !! Have you ever seen someone engage a Nitrous system at low rpm? Usually a spectacular explosion.

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I blame all this on YA'LL CHRIS, EMMA, PQ, and BRUCE look what you have done to me




I appreciate it Bruce, but I bet my wallet won't

Yeah, he is just a bad influence. [/QUOTE]

And that is where it all started[/QUOTE]

Blame PQ, Chris and DE. I plead the fifth.
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Old 12-10-2010, 12:40 AM   #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Emma View Post
I'm not sure exactly what you mean in your above post, PQ, but the 3.4" pulley will produce more boost than the 3.6" (smaller pulley, more boost). The standard maggie kit for a stock car comes with the 3.8" pulley. You have headers (like I do) which produces more air flow. So, to get the same amount of boost through a motor with headers, Magnuson recommended that I get the 3.6" pulley to produce the same boost as the 3.8" pulley makes in a stock motor.

I am also planning to get a cam. I am not planning to change the 3.6" pulley at that time.

Sincerely,
Little Miss Know it All

PS: I only know a little about this because I just went through the same set of decisions and smart people taught me some good stuff!
I have no cats. I should be flowing about as good as you can. If I can't get to a good and reputable shop, I'll do the 3.8 and buy the 3.6 too, and try them both. Unless I have to travel a long way to get it done, then I'll just do the 3.6 and call it done. Problem is, I can't really take the chance of driving somewhere and staying and something go wrong and I'm stuck. Things can come up where they can't get the work done, have to order a part or something.


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Here in lies my problem with FI. I am afraid of the added power and what it will do to the other parts like tranny, bottom end, rear end etc.. I am thinking of just building mine.
Sweet. I wish I could. Time wise, would be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Emma View Post
I too was afraid of the added power. Now that I have it, I love it and fear no longer... it's addictive. I blame GTAHVIT.
Me too.

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150.00? That is like 3 hours of partying for you. Take a break for one night and you'll have it covered...
Hmmmmm, i fI stay home this Saturday, I could do it.

Woops, Zebra will be coming in. I'll have to sacrifice another time. lol

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I blame all this on YA'LL CHRIS, EMMA, PQ, and BRUCE look what you have done to me
Emma did it to me. She got it done first.
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Blame PQ, Chris and DE. I plead the fifth.
I'm a follower. Chris is the leader.


Wait......................................... Uh................ I"m thinking the SST is the Jones we all chase....
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Old 12-10-2010, 09:21 AM   #749
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Make life simple, just put the 3.6" pulley on your car. You won't be happy with the lower boost from the 3.8" pulley on a car with headers. Ok, I'm done saying "get the 3.6" pulley." My next words about that will be "I told you so."

This is so exciting!
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Old 12-10-2010, 10:21 AM   #750
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If you're planning on doing the cam soon, then I say stick with the 3.8". Then measure with the cam and get the right pulley. If it's going to be a while, then pony up for the 3.6". Welcome to the world of boost!
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