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Old 10-15-2014, 08:55 AM   #1
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Ebola

This might be a hard topic to discuss without touching on political aspects...I'm going to try to do with without getting political, and I hope anyone else that joins this discussion can try to do the same.

As much as we've been reassured that Ebola won't be a huge problem in the U.S., I have little faith in the reassurances we are getting. Like it or not, this terrible virus IS going to have an impact on our lives over the coming year. It's a simple matter of probability and mathematics. As the Dallas hospital has shown, this virus spreads like wildfire...even with the reassurances that proper precautions had been taken. Our hospitals are not prepared for this. They just aren't. Any virus that expands exponentially at the rate Ebola does NEEDS to be taken seriously.

I understand the need to calm the populace when something like this breaks out. That's what we are currently getting from the CDC and others who are talking about this.

I'm a rational person. Still, I am in the process of starting to stock up on water, MRE's and canned goods. That isn't a bad idea anyways in case of other emergencies.

The question is, how far do we go to protect ourselves? Do we restrict or ban travel from other countries (if we contain the outbreak in Dallas)? Do we restrict travel from Dallas anywhere else over the next 21-42 days?

If this gets bigger...that's something we may be facing. Problem is, we may also face people (especially in Texas) who don't want their freedom infringed upon. That may be the biggest problem we face in preventing the spread of Ebola.
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:20 AM   #2
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I agree that it seems like no one wants to really touch on this subject. I have thought about this from when it was still over seas and I heard that they were bringing the infected doctor back. I wondered about all of the people that travel and if they answer whatever on a sheet of paper and have no fever at that point are free to just go about there business and whom ever they come in contact with may be at risk if that person develops systems and then it will go on and on and that's scary. The government and the Medical fields have got it wrong so far as they all think that no one would lie on a form to get back to the country and possibly expose countless amounts of people and that each medical facility is prepared for this, and that as we are now seeing is just not true.
IMO anyone traveling from one of the known areas in the world where they have had contact should be quarantined for the amount of time that symptoms may appear or they cannot get on a plane to this country. I am not sure how in the name of god that could ever play out but wait until John Q Public not medical folks start coming down with it after being exposed and it spreads like wildfire in the good ole USA and lets see what extremes we will be willing or unwilling to be imposed under to try and control it. Maybe I should go and buy a vet and a z-28 now but seriously we don't seem to be in a very good spot. I hope I'm totally wrong and in a week or two no one even wants to talk about it any more or has to! God Bless America and public praying and allegiance to this country could be on a quick rebound !
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:22 AM   #3
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I think more people will be killed from the common flu this winter than ebola.

I can't say that I'm not a little concerned, but not going to lose any sleep over it. The virus is killed very easily. Antibacterial soap and warm water kills the virus.

I will also stock up on essentials so I can avoid public places if it does begin to spread.

In regards to stopping it from spreading, I don't think they would be able to. Air travel may be easy to check, but doesn't keep someone from hopping in their car or a greyhound bus, etc.
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:24 AM   #4
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I agree that it seems like no one wants to really touch on this subject. I have thought about this from when it was still over seas and I heard that they were bringing the infected doctor back. I wondered about all of the people that travel and if they answer whatever on a sheet of paper and have no fever at that point are free to just go about there business and whom ever they come in contact with may be at risk if that person develops systems and then it will go on and on and that's scary. The government and the Medical fields have got it wrong so far as they all think that no one would lie on a form to get back to the country and possibly expose countless amounts of people and that each medical facility is prepared for this, and that as we are now seeing is just not true.
IMO anyone traveling from one of the known areas in the world where they have had contact should be quarantined for the amount of time that symptoms may appear or they cannot get on a plane to this country. I am not sure how in the name of god that could ever play out but wait until John Q Public not medical folks start coming down with it after being exposed and it spreads like wildfire in the good ole USA and lets see what extremes we will be willing or unwilling to be imposed under to try and control it. Maybe I should go and buy a vet and a z-28 now but seriously we don't seem to be in a very good spot. I hope I'm totally wrong and in a week or two no one even wants to talk about it any more or has to! God Bless America and public praying and allegiance to this country could be on a quick rebound !
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:36 AM   #5
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Antibacterial soap and warm water kills the virus.
This is a VIRUS, not bacteria. Anti-bacterial soap and warm water will do NOTHING to prevent this. This is the kind of misinformation (such as a politician saying water kills it) that will continue to cause this to spread.

Bleach is what the health care workers use to kill this virus. Fire kills it. Wearing gloves can help minimize the risk if you're touching someone. Not warm water and soap. There's no 10 second rule with this virus. Contact with foreign matter (skin, sweat, feces, etc) can cause infection, and washing at that point does NOTHING.

Even scarier...every time this virus is spread to another person, it mutates. Most mutations are harmless. Some, not so much. Meaning...there is a possibility this could go airborne, and then we're really screwed. Small probability, however as more people get infected...that probability goes up.
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:38 AM   #6
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Sometimes people do need to sacrifice some of the freedom they have for the common good. Not for a percieved good, but an actual measurable good. In this case, I would likely support a temporary travel ban. Something like Ebola, like you said, absolutely needs to be contained and dealt with before it becomes unstoppable. Unfortunately, that relies on people look past their own selfishness and doing the right thing. Maybe it's not to that point yet, but I think it's an option that needs to be seriously considered.

As far as what travel ban, I think it's appropriate to ban travel to other countries (at least the ones that have ebola cases), but I feel it's also our responsibility to prevent our own citizens from spreading this to a country that isn't having these problems. It would be wildly irresponsible to enable the spread of this virus to populations where it hasn't made it to. For the city of Dallas, I think that's a little more difficult to address. No matter what decision is made, it could end up disasterous. Going to the extreme and just shutting down in and out for Dallas would prevent it from leaving, but piss off everyone else (possibly needlessly if it is contained in the hospitals). On the other hand, assuming that nothing needs to be done because there are few cases and allowing it to spread can turn it into a country wide problem very quickly.

The best option, although inconvenient, would be to set up screening stations and isolation areas around the hospital. Allow the population to get screened and sent on their way, and not allow them around either of those areas for the next 3-6 weeks or so to try and head the virus off.

That said, it's possible the virus will be contained in the hospital and none of this will be necessary at all.
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:43 AM   #7
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For the city of Dallas, I think that's a little more difficult to address.
I'm all for nuking the city of Dallas right now. It's the only way to be sure.

Note: This has nothing to do with me being a bitter Seahawks fan!
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:44 AM   #8
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Yeah totally unprepared for the virus. Need ban travel from the "hosting" countries and isolate all who've been in contact. This is a serious issue and won't go away. I wonder if rubber gloves will keep the virus out, as rubber has been found to be too porous...
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:55 AM   #9
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We are totally unprepared to handle any virus. We do need some sort of wakeup call.

Quote:
Symptoms of Ebola include

Fever (greater than 38.6°C or 101.5°F)
Severe headache
Muscle pain
Weakness
Diarrhea
Vomiting
Abdominal (stomach) pain
Unexplained hemorrhage (bleeding or bruising)
Symptoms may appear anywhere from 2 to 21 days after exposure to Ebola, but the average is 8 to 10 days.

Recovery from Ebola depends on good supportive clinical care and the patient’s immune response. People who recover from Ebola infection develop antibodies that last for at least 10 years.
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:58 AM   #10
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Have they done tests where they've injected another virus near the ebola virus to see if the other virus decides to take on the ebola virus? I think they've done this.
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:58 AM   #11
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:09 AM   #12
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This is a VIRUS, not bacteria. Anti-bacterial soap and warm water will do NOTHING to prevent this. This is the kind of misinformation (such as a politician saying water kills it) that will continue to cause this to spread.

Bleach is what the health care workers use to kill this virus. Fire kills it. Wearing gloves can help minimize the risk if you're touching someone. Not warm water and soap. There's no 10 second rule with this virus. Contact with foreign matter (skin, sweat, feces, etc) can cause infection, and washing at that point does NOTHING.

Even scarier...every time this virus is spread to another person, it mutates. Most mutations are harmless. Some, not so much. Meaning...there is a possibility this could go airborne, and then we're really screwed. Small probability, however as more people get infected...that probability goes up.
Really? Watched a segment on CNN that claims it would..

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/healt...llas/16471377/

"Chlorine disinfection, heat, direct sunlight, soaps and detergents can kill the Ebola virus."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/27/world/...rus-explainer/

"The WHO says it is believed that fruit bats may be the natural host of the Ebola virus in Africa, passing on the virus to other animals.
Humans contract Ebola through contact with the bodily fluids of infected animals or the bodily fluids of infected humans.
MSF says that while the virus is believed to be able to survive for some days in liquid outside an infected organism, chlorine disinfection, heat, direct sunlight, soaps and detergents can kill it."
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:12 AM   #13
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There's no political discussion that has to take place. Only a very^6 small number of Americans have been infected (and, relatively speaking, only a small number of Africans as well). The spread in Africa is due to reasons that are different than the potential for spread here. We have the knowledge and infrastructure to handle this. Not only will the flu kill more this year, refrigerators probably will as well.
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:12 AM   #14
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Even if soap and water did kill the virus, how many people properly wash their hands in public places? I'm going to go out on a limb and say 1 in 10 actually wash their hands correctly. This saves nobody. They just grab bacteria and keep on spreading it.
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:17 AM   #15
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I think more people will be killed from the common flu this winter than ebola.

I can't say that I'm not a little concerned, but not going to lose any sleep over it. The virus is killed very easily. Antibacterial soap and warm water kills the virus.

I will also stock up on essentials so I can avoid public places if it does begin to spread.

In regards to stopping it from spreading, I don't think they would be able to. Air travel may be easy to check, but doesn't keep someone from hopping in their car or a greyhound bus, etc.
With a projected 10,000 additional cases per week in the hosting countries of this most deadly virus , it isn't something to shirk either. More people die each year from flu than terrorist attacks over here too, yet that analogy hasn't diminished concern on that front. The US isn't any more prepared to control this virus over here than we are controlling it in Africa. Not immediately shutting down flights from this infected region is plain irresponsible on the part of our current administration. Discussing this particular topic as it relates to US concerns without including our current administration's bureaucratic tactics attempting to downplay the urgency of this virus establishing itself in America is to not acknowledge reality.

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Old 10-15-2014, 10:20 AM   #16
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Even if soap and water did kill the virus, how many people properly wash their hands in public places? I'm going to go out on a limb and say 1 in 10 actually wash their hands correctly. This saves nobody. They just grab bacteria and keep on spreading it.
Also, this has more to do with keeping the contaminants off of your skin entirely than washing it off after it's already had a chance to infect you. You would see the CDC protocols calling for soap and water rather than bleach/chlorine when doing decontamination after wearing protective gear. Note that they say "can" kill it. Not "will" kill it.

I'll repeat...there is not a 10-second rule for Ebola. Getting contaminants on your skin can cause you to contract Ebola. The longer it is on your skin, the more likely it is you will contract the virus. However, even a microsecond of contact CAN cause the virus to pass to you.
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:20 AM   #17
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Even if soap and water did kill the virus, how many people properly wash their hands in public places? I'm going to go out on a limb and say 1 in 10 actually wash their hands correctly. This saves nobody. They just grab bacteria and keep on spreading it.
Well if people can't simply wash their hands then what else could possibly be done? Normally it's 1 in 10, but given the way people overreact in emergency situations I'd be willing to bet that stat goes up to about 5- 7 in 10. If this thing starts spreading Purell's stock price will quadruple.
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:21 AM   #18
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Also, this has more to do with keeping the contaminants off of your skin entirely than washing it off after it's already had a chance to infect you. You would see the CDC protocols calling for soap and water rather than bleach/chlorine when doing decontamination after wearing protective gear. Note that they say "can" kill it. Not "will" kill it.

I'll repeat...there is not a 10-second rule for Ebola. Getting contaminants on your skin can cause you to contract Ebola. The longer it is on your skin, the more likely it is you will contract the virus. However, even a microsecond of contact CAN cause the virus to pass to you.
Point taken. CAN and WILL definitely big difference.
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:24 AM   #19
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Well if people can't simply wash their hands then what else could possibly be done? Normally it's 1 in 10, but given the way people overreact in emergency situations I'd be willing to bet that stat goes up to about 5- 7 in 10. If this thing starts spreading Purell's stock price will quadruple.
Again, the solution isn't washing your hands. The solution (as long as Ebola doesn't go airborne) is to not touch or have contact with those with Ebola. Any contact increases the risk that this virus will pass to another person. Look how easily it spread to the 2 hospital workers in Dallas, even though they THOUGHT they were following the proper procedures. The nurse, Nina Pham, was known for being meticulous in following those procedures.
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:24 AM   #20
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I did some basic math: At the rates of spread cited by SOME sources (and there are wildly conflicting reports of how many have it, what its exponential spread rate, and so forth are... I sort of went "middle- of- the- road/ average" for this), if 1.4 million COULD be infected by January, that rate of spread, unchecked, would reach 11 billion people by May of next year.

Clearly, we don't have that many people on the planet, and, of course, there are a nearly infinite number of variables to factor in, that render this 11 billion figure essentially worthless... but it's something to think about.

I'm not an alarmist... I'm always the guy who rolls his eyes at news sensationalism, and who talks people down from panic or concern. However... Ebola is a thing we've never faced before. There does not seem to be any way to contain its geographical spread, especially not in our world of constant travel and mingling with others.

I WAS a proponent of a travel ban: However, at this point, I see it as pointless... too late. We can't stop ALL travel from those countries, so it seems pointless. Let's say you have a bucket of water... the bucket has ten holes in it, so all of the water runs out. But if you plug seven of the holes... well, all of the water still runs out. Even if you plug NINE of the holes, every drop of the water will still run out. Same with preventing this virus from spreading stateside: If we can't plug ALL of the holes, then it seems pointless. We can't track a person leaving Africa who travels to New Delhi, then to London then to Quebec... we can't even tell who is carrying the virus (but doesn't show symptoms), or stop those people from later spreading it to a LOT of other people. We don't even understand how to contain it by following "CDC protocol." We are up against something that NOBODY can contain.

AIDS was scary... but most people figured that if they did not engage in risky behavior (sexually and with drug use) that they were very unlikely to contract the disease. Ebola is different, and that's why it scares people: Anybody can get it.

IF the shit hits the fan here in the U.S., the usually- mocked Preppers will be king. Everybody will wish they'd prepped.

Only time will tell where this goes. We could develop a vaccine, we might figure out a way to contain it.
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:24 AM   #21
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I'm all for nuking the city of Dallas right now. It's the only way to be sure.

Note: This has nothing to do with me being a bitter Seahawks fan!
Lol suuuuure.

This has me nervous but not freaking out nervous. I think they're taking it seriously but travel does need to be restricted to ensure it does not spread.

Also they are using bleach in such super high concentrations I'm pretty sure it kills everything in its path and then double taps what it just killed to be certain its dead.
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:26 AM   #22
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So to all the soap and water comments... do you really think the hospital employees treating the man with the initial case aren't washing their hands almost religiously?
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:27 AM   #23
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On another note...you know what really scares me?

That somehow ISIS, Al Queada or some random lunatic will purposely infect themselves. Then at the point that they become sick, they start travelling on planes and purposefully infecting lots of people who would be difficult to track down.
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:27 AM   #24
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I did some basic math: At the rates of spread cited by SOME sources (and there are wildly conflicting reports of how many have it, what its exponential spread rate, and so forth are... I sort of went "middle- of- the- road/ average" for this), if 1.4 million COULD be infected by January, that rate of spread, unchecked, would reach 11 billion people by May of next year.

Clearly, we don't have that many people on the planet, and, of course, there are a nearly infinite number of variables to factor in, that render this 11 billion figure essentially worthless... but it's something to think about.

I'm not an alarmist... I'm always the guy who rolls his eyes at news sensationalism, and who talks people down from panic or concern. However... Ebola is a thing we've never faced before. There does not seem to be any way to contain its geographical spread, especially not in our world of constant travel and mingling with others.

I WAS a proponent of a travel ban: However, at this point, I see it as pointless... too late. We can't stop ALL travel from those countries, so it seems pointless. Let's say you have a bucket of water... the bucket has ten holes in it, so all of the water runs out. But if you plug seven of the holes... well, all of the water still runs out. Even if you plug NINE of the holes, every drop of the water will still run out. Same with preventing this virus from spreading stateside: If we can't plug ALL of the holes, then it seems pointless. We can't track a person leaving Africa who travels to New Delhi, then to London then to Quebec... we can't even tell who is carrying the virus (but doesn't show symptoms), or stop those people from later spreading it to a LOT of other people. We don't even understand how to contain it by following "CDC protocol." We are up against something that NOBODY can contain.

AIDS was scary... but most people figured that if they did not engage in risky behavior (sexually and with drug use) that they were very unlikely to contract the disease. Ebola is different, and that's why it scares people: Anybody can get it.

IF the shit hits the fan here in the U.S., the usually- mocked Preppers will be king. Everybody will wish they'd prepped.

Only time will tell where this goes. We could develop a vaccine, we might figure out a way to contain it.
Pointless? Surely stopping some or most is better than not checking anymore just because a few have gotten through.
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:30 AM   #25
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Pointless? Surely stopping some or most is better than not checking anymore just because a few have gotten through.

Agreed... I should not have said "pointless." However, I AM pissed off that travel restrictions were not enacted earlier, on a global scale, as it seems it would have had a much better chance of containment.

At this point, travel restrictions will only delay the inevitable... and, yes, this could be a good thing... especially to those who are still alive if and WHEN a vaccine is available.
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