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Old 06-25-2013, 05:17 PM   #5326
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BTW guys...I heard from what I think is a pretty good source that there will be a price drop and big shipment of SCARs soon.

So besides better supply (which typically drives down cost), FN is supposedly lowering dealer cost. The retail is also supposed to change to $2500 for the 17S (instead of $2900). I hope this guy's info is right. I've been wanting to pick one up, but wasn't willing to pay out the nose for it.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:30 PM   #5327
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Thanks...definitely one of my favorites. How can you go wrong with 16 rounds of .45?
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I need to get a reloading press so bad. My 700 is too expensive to shoot. .308 is what I should have gotten.
You got a nice rifle for the money... once you start reloading you'll be able to load it for not much more than .308

If you don't load too hot, brass will last a long time.

You can get sticker shock from some reloaders equipment, but if you do your homework you can get in to it fairly cheap.

I did one thing that even the hardcore accuracy guys think is overkill... I deprime then clean my brass with a Thumblers Tumbler and SS roller bearing media. Since I clean brass in my kitchen this technique doesn't throw dust like a dry media cleaner.

I also use a scale that's so accurate I have to turn off my ceiling fan and hold my breath to use it ... but those are my two splurges, the rest of my equipment is on the low side, like a Lee classic 4 hole turret press and Lee dies.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:45 PM   #5328
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I didn't build one...bought a POF P308. Still can't find PMAGs for under $45.00!
3200 for an AR-10 is a lot. Is it worth it? I've wanted an AR-10 for a while, and I am thinking about just building one. The POF is a beautiful looking rifle though....

I think my next buy is going to be a bolt-action in 6.5 creedmoor though. I have a friend that just swapped over to it. He's really impressed with that round, and I read a lot of good things. All things considered, it's not TOO much more than a good .308 round.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:50 PM   #5329
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BTW guys...I heard from what I think is a pretty good source that there will be a price drop and big shipment of SCARs soon.

So besides better supply (which typically drives down cost), FN is supposedly lowering dealer cost. The retail is also supposed to change to $2500 for the 17S (instead of $2900). I hope this guy's info is right. I've been wanting to pick one up, but wasn't willing to pay out the nose for it.
i really hope thats true. id buy a scar over an ar any time
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:51 PM   #5330
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Not just cheaper ammo...cheaper weapon and cheaper magazines.

I chose POF, and really like them, but there are so many weapons to choose from in so many different price ranges. Do you have a budget in mind?
I really like the look of the POF's. Budget... Doesn't really matter, just the longer it takes to get one.
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You got a nice rifle for the money... once you start reloading you'll be able to load it for not much more than .308

If you don't load too hot, brass will last a long time.

You can get sticker shock from some reloaders equipment, but if you do your homework you can get in to it fairly cheap.

I did one thing that even the hardcore accuracy guys think is overkill... I deprime then clean my brass with a Thumblers Tumbler and SS roller bearing media. Since I clean brass in my kitchen this technique doesn't throw dust like a dry media cleaner.

I also use a scale that's so accurate I have to turn off my ceiling fan and hold my breath to use it ... but those are my two splurges, the rest of my equipment is on the low side, like a Lee classic 4 hole turret press and Lee dies.
Thanks, yes I will have to get into it. I definitely need to research everything first. I may just buy an expensive setup with my brothers.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:11 PM   #5331
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Anybody have the Springfield XDS 45cal.

I would love to get my hands on one, looking to see what people think of them. Massachusetts has strict gun laws and this is definately not allowed to be sold here in Mass through a dealer. Even being in Law Enforcement
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:49 PM   #5332
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Anybody have the Springfield XDS 45cal.

I would love to get my hands on one, looking to see what people think of them. Massachusetts has strict gun laws and this is definately not allowed to be sold here in Mass through a dealer. Even being in Law Enforcement
My sister has one. She said it hurts her hands to fire it at the range after awhile. But she's also a baby. What is it about Mass laws that won't let you have an XDS?
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Old 06-25-2013, 08:11 PM   #5333
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My sister has one. She said it hurts her hands to fire it at the range after awhile. But she's also a baby. What is it about Mass laws that won't let you have an XDS?
Must have 10lb trigger pull, external safety switch and loaded one in the chamber indicators
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:24 PM   #5334
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3200 for an AR-10 is a lot. Is it worth it? I've wanted an AR-10 for a while, and I am thinking about just building one. The POF is a beautiful looking rifle though....

I think my next buy is going to be a bolt-action in 6.5 creedmoor though. I have a friend that just swapped over to it. He's really impressed with that round, and I read a lot of good things. All things considered, it's not TOO much more than a good .308 round.
If I wanted to pay that much I would've probably moved up to a KAC.

I picked mine up for $2400. They aren't cheap, but I really wanted gas piston, and got hooked after shooting my friend's P415. It's very solid, and I really like the NP3 coating. It was designed to run completely dry if necessary.

I haven't even had a chance to shoot the .308 yet, but my P415 is great. I took it straight out of the box and shot 200 rounds through it without a hitch.

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i really hope thats true. id buy a scar over an ar any time
Yea...gonna keep my eye out. If I hear anything else I'll post up.

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I really like the look of the POF's. Budget... Doesn't really matter, just the longer it takes to get one.

Thanks, yes I will have to get into it. I definitely need to research everything first. I may just buy an expensive setup with my brothers.
I did a ton of research on my own, and ultimately had the chance to shoot the POF. At this level you should also look at LWRC, Larue Tactical, Noveske, Daniel Defense, etc.

You can also save some money with Colt, DMPS, Troy and endless other brands. They're all great weapons, and should do everything you need them to. Many of the guys in this thread know a lot more than I do, and a lot of them build their own.

I'd hit your local range and try some out and figure out what's best for you. Good luck.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:17 AM   #5335
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I think I retract my desire for a .338... DAMN AMMO IS EXPENSIVE. .300 win mag it is...
You gotta pay to play. Reloading takes.338 LM down to $1.50 per shot from what I have seen. That includes a few reloads on the brass.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:56 AM   #5336
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If I wanted to pay that much I would've probably moved up to a KAC.

I picked mine up for $2400. They aren't cheap, but I really wanted gas piston, and got hooked after shooting my friend's P415. It's very solid, and I really like the NP3 coating. It was designed to run completely dry if necessary.

I haven't even had a chance to shoot the .308 yet, but my P415 is great. I took it straight out of the box and shot 200 rounds through it without a hitch.
My AR is a gas impingement. There are a advantages and disadvantages to each system. I would like a piston rifle as well, because I think in a SHTF situation, the piston rifle will be better suited as it doesn't require the same level of cleaning (all that gas doesn't get into the upper). On the other hand, it is more parts to possibly fail, they are generally more expensive, and the hit of the piston can cause the bolt assembly to "see-saw".

That being said, I've never read anythign about noticable increased wear on a piston system, or it's piston being fragile. And as far as DI goes... the Filthy 14 is proof of how much buildup it can take without cleaning, as long as it's lubed. A piece from that article:

Quote:
We received the carbine in late 2008 and put #14 into service shortly thereafter.
At Brady, Texas, in March 2009, it suffered a malfunction, which was reduced with Immediate Action. The bolt was wiped down at 6,450 rounds.
At Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin, in May 2009, it had several failures to extract, and the extractor spring was replaced at 13,010 rounds. This is far beyond the normal extractor spring life under these conditions.
At Wamego, Kansas, in June 2009, two bolt lugs broke at 16,400 rounds. We replaced the BCG. Considering the firing schedule, this is within normal parameters.
At Columbus, Ohio, in November 2009, we had several failures to extract at 24,450 rounds. The shooter gave it a field cleaning and replaced the extractor and extractor spring.
At 28,905 rounds, we finally cleaned Filthy 14. As part of our year-end maintenance schedule, we inspect and replace parts as necessary. Filthy 14 looked like the inside of the crankcase of Uncle Ed’s ’49 Packard. It was disgusting to look at and contaminated everything near it, somewhat like the toner cartridges for old printers.
I plopped it into a parts washer filled with Slip 725 parts cleaner, and 20 minutes later it was clean. Mostly clean, anyway.
We have never used a bore brush in the barrel of this gun. We did run a patch down the barrel twice, but that was all. At 50 yards it still shoots two-inch groups, and we understand that it might not at 100 yards and beyond, but we are happy with the fact that, even at 50 yards, the gun is capable of tighter groups than most of the people running it.
We have never used a chamber brush in this gun either. We were often told that this was an absolute must.
Sure…
At the last class in Casa Grande, Arizona, at approximately 30,000 rounds, we had several failures to extract. We replaced the extractor spring and wiped down the BCG.
That's pretty impressive for any gun. I likely will never fire 30,000 rounds through my rifle. I guess there really isn't much of anything that says "DI or Pison is better than another". I HAVE heard they feel a little different to shoot as far as recoil is concerned, but I haven't had the opportunity to see for myself.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:58 AM   #5337
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My AR is a gas impingement. There are a advantages and disadvantages to each system. I would like a piston rifle as well, because I think in a SHTF situation, the piston rifle will be better suited as it doesn't require the same level of cleaning (all that gas doesn't get into the upper). On the other hand, it is more parts to possibly fail, they are generally more expensive, and the hit of the piston can cause the bolt assembly to "see-saw".

That being said, I've never read anythign about noticable increased wear on a piston system, or it's piston being fragile.
Yea...I went through all the piston vs DI stuff, and ultimately settled on piston. It is more expensive, and does weigh more, but it shoots great with very little lubrication. I also enjoy the shorter cleaning time.

Carrier tilt (or "see-saw") is really a thing of the past in most good modern piston systems.

A lot of high end manufacturers (POF, LWRC, HK, F/N) are using pistons even with the higher costs. If they can bring the cost down, I think you'll see more people picking them up.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:54 PM   #5338
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Piston runs cooler and cleaner....

Simple as that! Without the carbon laiden gases being pushed back into the chamber like DI rifles the weapons stay cleaner. As for potential failures they are about the same.

Stoner actually wanted the gas piston set up in the AR's from day one but was over riden by Armalite execs
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:08 PM   #5339
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Piston runs cooler and cleaner....

Simple as that! Without the carbon laiden gases being pushed back into the chamber like DI rifles the weapons stay cleaner. As for potential failures they are about the same.

Stoner actually wanted the gas piston set up in the AR's from day one but was over riden by Armalite execs
I second that...I run piston even with my SBR AR. It makes a huge difference running a suppressor as well - much cleaner and alot less gas blowback.

Here is a pic of my Scar heavy (I am on the right)...Love the Scar 16 and 17!
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:44 PM   #5340
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I second that...I run piston even with my SBR AR. It makes a huge difference running a suppressor as well - much cleaner and alot less gas blowback.

Here is a pic of my Scar heavy (I am on the right)...Love the Scar 16 and 17!
Nice...I think the 17S will be my next rifle.
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Old 06-26-2013, 05:38 PM   #5341
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BTW guys...I heard from what I think is a pretty good source that there will be a price drop and big shipment of SCARs soon.

So besides better supply (which typically drives down cost), FN is supposedly lowering dealer cost. The retail is also supposed to change to $2500 for the 17S (instead of $2900). I hope this guy's info is right. I've been wanting to pick one up, but wasn't willing to pay out the nose for it.
I really hope so. I've been wanting a Scar for a long time but the market price for one right now is outrageous. At the gun show last weekend I saw a few Scar 17's and everyone was asking over $5k.
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:43 PM   #5342
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If I wanted to pay that much I would've probably moved up to a KAC.

I picked mine up for $2400. They aren't cheap, but I really wanted gas piston, and got hooked after shooting my friend's P415. It's very solid, and I really like the NP3 coating. It was designed to run completely dry if necessary.

I haven't even had a chance to shoot the .308 yet, but my P415 is great. I took it straight out of the box and shot 200 rounds through it without a hitch.

Yea...gonna keep my eye out. If I hear anything else I'll post up.

I did a ton of research on my own, and ultimately had the chance to shoot the POF. At this level you should also look at LWRC, Larue Tactical, Noveske, Daniel Defense, etc.

You can also save some money with Colt, DMPS, Troy and endless other brands. They're all great weapons, and should do everything you need them to. Many of the guys in this thread know a lot more than I do, and a lot of them build their own.

I'd hit your local range and try some out and figure out what's best for you. Good luck.
The POF seems to really appeal to me over the others... I don't know why.
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:49 PM   #5343
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My sister has one. She said it hurts her hands to fire it at the range after awhile. But she's also a baby. What is it about Mass laws that won't let you have an XDS?

Massachusetts requires examples of the firearm to go through certain tests before it can be legally sold here.

If the firearm is not submitted it is the same as failing the tests. Some gun makers like Colt have actually stated that they find MA laws confusing and contradictory so they won't even try to comply.

Not sure if that's the reason for the Springer XD but it could easily be the case
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:09 PM   #5344
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I really hope so. I've been wanting a Scar for a long time but the market price for one right now is outrageous. At the gun show last weekend I saw a few Scar 17's and everyone was asking over $5k.
Ouch! They're a about $3000 on Gunbroker right now, and I saw one at the show this past weekend for $2850.

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The POF seems to really appeal to me over the others... I don't know why.
That's definitely one reason I bought it.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:18 PM   #5345
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Massachusetts requires examples of the firearm to go through certain tests before it can be legally sold here.

If the firearm is not submitted it is the same as failing the tests. Some gun makers like Colt have actually stated that they find MA laws confusing and contradictory so they won't even try to comply.

Not sure if that's the reason for the Springer XD but it could easily be the case
Sounds suspiciously like the California "safe" gun roster...

Manufacturer pays an extortion fee for the state to test it, and then it's legal for an FFL to sell. Then it's up to the manufacturer to ensure the extortion fee is paid again every so often to keep it on the list.

The crappy part about the Cali one, is that if the company (say Sig) makes a black P226 and a silver P226, but only sends the black one, the silver one is illegal to sell, regardless of being the same physical firearm.

We just recently got the LCI and magazine disconnect added to the requirements. Ugh.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:14 AM   #5346
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Drove to Bass Pro Shop to buy a Glock 20 and they didn't have any. :(
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:56 PM   #5347
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Finally picked up the BCM mod 4 charging handle for my AR after reading all the hype. Best mod ever! Such a small thing... wouldn't have thought it would have made that big of a difference. Any of you that don't have it, I recommend it highly.
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Old 06-30-2013, 07:27 AM   #5348
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Sounds suspiciously like the California "safe" gun roster...

Manufacturer pays an extortion fee for the state to test it, and then it's legal for an FFL to sell. Then it's up to the manufacturer to ensure the extortion fee is paid again every so often to keep it on the list.

The crappy part about the Cali one, is that if the company (say Sig) makes a black P226 and a silver P226, but only sends the black one, the silver one is illegal to sell, regardless of being the same physical firearm.

We just recently got the LCI and magazine disconnect added to the requirements. Ugh.
I'm not sure if a ransom is involved in MA or not, but yes, same idea. MA would dearly love to be CaliEast. If my family wasn't here, I would move, because I hear that west and south of here there is a country called "America"
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:49 AM   #5349
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Finally picked up the BCM mod 4 charging handle for my AR after reading all the hype. Best mod ever! Such a small thing... wouldn't have thought it would have made that big of a difference. Any of you that don't have it, I recommend it highly.
Still the best first mod for an AR! Can't say I've seen the Mod 4... I like the large latch though (wait is the large latch the Mod 4?)
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:28 AM   #5350
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Think I'm going to be ordering a Nighthawk Custom 1911 soon. Now I just have to figure out which one to get.

Anybody here have one?
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