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Old 06-12-2010, 01:31 PM   #1
IROCanSS
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What the Z28 is to me...

the Z28.

It SHOULD NOT be a 6 cyl twin turbo
It SHOULD NOT be an SS with a superchager thrown on... this is done every day!

It SHOULD have a LSx... naturally aspirated, maybe tweaked to put more than 500hp out. I dont think 74hp is enough to make people make the jump.... It should be in the 525-550 range... WITHOUT forced induction! This is easily done if GM gets their aahhem off of the Government/EPAs aahhemm... A handful of cars outside the CAFE regs wont kill them...

It SHOULD also:

- be based on a 1SS... no leather, no frills, no RS. You want frills, get the SS. It SHOULD have a leather wrap steering wheel and shift knob though... Thats your direct contact with the car, it should feel good!

- have the 4 guage pack.

- be availiable in auto or manual WITHOUT DOD on the auto or CAGS on the manual.

- have the track pack that they should make an option on the SS.

- have a short throw shifter in the manual

- have GMPP agressive exhaust, not the Z06 dual tone exhaust... it should ALWAYS be loud and open!

- have open style cold air intake

- have a 4.10 rear gear

- have stainless braided brake lines with red calipers (Z06 paint scheme) with better pads. The Brembo calipers are fine.

- hardened axels might be a good idea.

- have brake cooling ducts like the Z06.

- have some sort of cowl induction hood... THATS FUNCTIONAL... like the Z06

- be availble in a limited number of colors. No RJT, IBM, SG or CGM...... Only BLACK, RED, WHITE, ORANGE, YELLOW, BLUE (since they are going to add a nice bright one) or SILVER.

- the badge should have a RED "Z" and BLACK "28" in the same font style and location as the RS or SS badges.

- made lighter... reduce the sound deadening all over the car. Take out some of the useless stuff weighing the car down... like the subwoofer in the dash, the onstar computer, the air pump in the trunk!

- No options... you pick your tranny, your color, your stripes and thats all... it is what it is...

Keep it simple.

The car needs to take the Z back to its roots... an all out performance car.... loud but fast as hell and great in the corners. Not something you want to take to dinner at Ruth Chris's Steakhouse... If thats what you want, get the SS. Make the Z28 an all out, balls to the wall performace oriented Camaro...

Oh and do all this and it should be very similar to the price of an SS... $40K TOPS! Remember its not a Corvette and we are trading frills and comfort for performance....

Think back to 1998ish... GM came out with the FRC Corvette. It was lighter, faster and cheaper than a base coupe... Now it blossomed into the Z06 and the price skyrocketed.... We need to be thinking about this car... without the price hike.

This will make the car sell to a small number... just like the FRC did. GM needs to look at the Z28 as a car for the enthusiasts, NOT THE MASSES...

Of course this is just my opinion but I'd buy one!

Thanks for reading,
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Old 06-12-2010, 01:44 PM   #2
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i really did enjoy reading this! thanks for posting!
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Old 06-12-2010, 03:48 PM   #3
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Old 06-12-2010, 04:27 PM   #4
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They are good wishes I guess, if that's the kind of thing you like. But it makes no business sense.
Good luck with that.
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Old 06-12-2010, 04:33 PM   #5
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i agree with most of this... other than the cowl hood, hardened axles, just because the cost factor wouldn't justify it, imho.

but the z28 should be a driver's car. no sunroof option either.

and it should come with 18's, with bigger rubber.
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Old 06-12-2010, 05:03 PM   #6
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They are good wishes I guess, if that's the kind of thing you like. But it makes no business sense.
Good luck with that.
Explain to me how this doesnt make business sense and the ZR1 does? It would be exactly what it was supposed to be, A wolf... Does it need to be in sheeps clothes? Make it a wolf in all terms...

Maybe they should make it a waterdown version of a performance car... oh wait, they did, its called an SS. Dont get me wrong I LOVE my car but I had to change a bunch of stuff that was watered down to fit for the masses. The OEM shifter is too sloppy, the exhaust it too quiet, the suspension is too loose, the car rides to high, the stock tune is poor... all done that way for business sense.

The Z28 should come ready to rule. GM doesnt have to sell 100,000 of them. The LT/SS combo can take care of the "business sense"... its just a package, like the ZR1... makes sense to me.

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i agree with most of this... other than the cowl hood, hardened axles, just because the cost factor wouldn't justify it, imho.

but the z28 should be a driver's car. no sunroof option either.

and it should come with 18's, with bigger rubber.
yea.. the axels where a stretch. the regular ones would *probably be fine.

right, no sunroof.. adds weight

ohh... good one 18's for sure!

I like that... a driver's car. It doesnt need to be "comfy".
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Old 06-12-2010, 05:30 PM   #7
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Apex Paul and I have had this conversation before and we would love for it to be along the same lines as the Cobra R. Basically a street legal race car with no a/c, no sunroof, no audio, no rear seat, no sound deadening, and no power anything. Add some lightweight body panels and functional front and rear diffusers. Drop in an LSX and a nice suspension and brake package and let it rip.

However, we know this is not what the vehicle we all know as the upcoming Z28 will be. But maybe we will get something like it before the 5th Generation goes away as a limited edition with a different name.

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Old 06-12-2010, 05:34 PM   #8
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No red calipers please. Tired of the look. And they need to offer the Z in some unique colors that fit the car. Oh, and I got no problem with a factory SC.
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:25 PM   #9
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I think I'm probably a very small minority on this forum in that I don't really care what engine the Z28 has. I want a road course camaro. I want it to have a suspension that makes my RX8 feel like a wobbly POS in the turns, and enough balls to power through the apex without playing the momentum games i have to play in my 8 to make that happen.

Thats my wish list. A car with power that i can throw through the twisties as good, or better, than my current car without losing the rear end.


I definitely like the suggestions of a bare bones drivers car, though. I hate leather interior, and as much as i like my sunroof in my 8, i definitely don't need one.
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhaus76 View Post
Explain to me how this doesnt make business sense and the ZR1 does? It would be exactly what it was supposed to be, A wolf... Does it need to be in sheeps clothes? Make it a wolf in all terms...

Maybe they should make it a waterdown version of a performance car... oh wait, they did, its called an SS. Dont get me wrong I LOVE my car but I had to change a bunch of stuff that was watered down to fit for the masses. The OEM shifter is too sloppy, the exhaust it too quiet, the suspension is too loose, the car rides to high, the stock tune is poor... all done that way for business sense.

The Z28 should come ready to rule. GM doesnt have to sell 100,000 of them. The LT/SS combo can take care of the "business sense"... its just a package, like the ZR1... makes sense to me.
Have you looked at what you can get on a ZR-1? It has a Bose sound system, memory seats, and leather seats.There is an upgraded leather interior package on it for God's sake. It has a leather DASHBOARD. But yeah, I guess the ZR-1 is a watered-down version of a performance car, seeing as it's frilly.

The current Camaro is already getting blasted about its' cheap interior and you guys want it cheaper? The Z needs to compete with its' arch nemesis, the GT 500. The GT 500 has 6 way adjustable power leather seats (you can even get them 2 toned), a 10 speaker sound system, Navigation package, dual climate zone HVAC and even an optional GLASS ROOF.

In this day and age people want to have the cake and eat it. They want high horsepower numbers AND luxury. Bare bones doesn't cut it anymore with the buying public, and the sales numbers of specialty "stripper" models reflects that. That's why I'm saying it doesn't make business sense.

GM doesn't need to sell 100,000 Z/28's, but why not try? Or at least not cripple their sales by building a car too 'hardcore'
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keedy View Post
I think I'm probably a very small minority on this forum in that I don't really care what engine the Z28 has. I want a road course camaro. I want it to have a suspension that makes my RX8 feel like a wobbly POS in the turns, and enough balls to power through the apex without playing the momentum games i have to play in my 8 to make that happen.

Thats my wish list. A car with power that i can throw through the twisties as good, or better, than my current car without losing the rear end.


I definitely like the suggestions of a bare bones drivers car, though. I hate leather interior, and as much as i like my sunroof in my 8, i definitely don't need one.
I had a 2004 RX~8... gonna be tough to make this fat a$$ go like the RX throuh the turns. I agree the torque on the RX was very poor...

With the right mods though, the Camaro takes the twisites very well.

I went from the RX~8 to a 2007 Corvette to the Camaro and I could actually drive the RX~8 faster than the Corvette or Camaro though my back country roads . When it comes to road courses, its not all about power.
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:39 PM   #12
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Have you looked at what you can get on a ZR-1? It has a Bose sound system, memory seats, and leather seats.There is an upgraded leather interior package on it for God's sake. It has a leather DASHBOARD. But yeah, I guess the ZR-1 is a watered-down version of a performance car, seeing as it's frilly.

The current Camaro is already getting blasted about its' cheap interior and you guys want it cheaper? The Z needs to compete with its' arch nemesis, the GT 500. The GT 500 has 6 way adjustable power leather seats (you can even get them 2 toned), a 10 speaker sound system, Navigation package, dual climate zone HVAC and even an optional GLASS ROOF.

In this day and age people want to have the cake and eat it. They want high horsepower numbers AND luxury. Bare bones doesn't cut it anymore with the buying public, and the sales numbers of specialty "stripper" models reflects that. That's why I'm saying it doesn't make business sense.

GM doesn't need to sell 100,000 Z/28's, but why not try? Or at least not cripple their sales by building a car too 'hardcore'
Well put...
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Old 06-12-2010, 08:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhaus76 View Post
the Z28.

It SHOULD NOT be a 6 cyl twin turbo
It SHOULD NOT be an SS with a superchager thrown on... this is done every day!

It SHOULD have a LSx... naturally aspirated, maybe tweaked to put more than 500hp out. I dont think 74hp is enough to make people make the jump.... It should be in the 525-550 range... WITHOUT forced induction! This is easily done if GM gets their aahhem off of the Government/EPAs aahhemm... A handful of cars outside the CAFE regs wont kill them...

It SHOULD also:

- be based on a 1SS... no leather, no frills, no RS. You want frills, get the SS. It SHOULD have a leather wrap steering wheel and shift knob though... Thats your direct contact with the car, it should feel good!

- have the 4 guage pack.

- be availiable in auto or manual WITHOUT DOD on the auto or CAGS on the manual.

- have the track pack that they should make an option on the SS.

- have a short throw shifter in the manual

- have GMPP agressive exhaust, not the Z06 dual tone exhaust... it should ALWAYS be loud and open!

- have open style cold air intake

- have a 4.10 rear gear

- have stainless braided brake lines with red calipers (Z06 paint scheme) with better pads. The Brembo calipers are fine.

- hardened axels might be a good idea.

- have brake cooling ducts like the Z06.

- have some sort of cowl induction hood... THATS FUNCTIONAL... like the Z06

- be availble in a limited number of colors. No RJT, IBM, SG or CGM...... Only BLACK, RED, WHITE, ORANGE, YELLOW, BLUE (since they are going to add a nice bright one) or SILVER.

- the badge should have a RED "Z" and BLACK "28" in the same font style and location as the RS or SS badges.

- made lighter... reduce the sound deadening all over the car. Take out some of the useless stuff weighing the car down... like the subwoofer in the dash, the onstar computer, the air pump in the trunk!

- No options... you pick your tranny, your color, your stripes and thats all... it is what it is...

Keep it simple.

The car needs to take the Z back to its roots... an all out performance car.... loud but fast as hell and great in the corners. Not something you want to take to dinner at Ruth Chris's Steakhouse... If thats what you want, get the SS. Make the Z28 an all out, balls to the wall performace oriented Camaro...

Oh and do all this and it should be very similar to the price of an SS... $40K TOPS! Remember its not a Corvette and we are trading frills and comfort for performance....

Think back to 1998ish... GM came out with the FRC Corvette. It was lighter, faster and cheaper than a base coupe... Now it blossomed into the Z06 and the price skyrocketed.... We need to be thinking about this car... without the price hike.

This will make the car sell to a small number... just like the FRC did. GM needs to look at the Z28 as a car for the enthusiasts, NOT THE MASSES...

Of course this is just my opinion but I'd buy one!

Thanks for reading,
$40k for all that is rediculous, c'mon man. Atleast be a little less of a dreamer and be more realistic.

You basically want an LS7, but with ~10% more power.

You want an exhaust that would probably be illegal (technically) in most states.

BTW The Z06 price skyrocketed because it has parts that have real value. You want a $35k car with a bunch of added options/accessories for only ~$5k more. And that's with an engine with a higher output than even the expensive LS7 puts out.


Not to mention this dream "Z28" would in all likelyhood be facing a FAT gas guzzler tax!!

WAKE UP!!!!

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Old 06-12-2010, 08:45 PM   #14
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The Z28 was always the little brother(originally to the SS350/SS396, then to the IROC-Z and finally back to the SS). It was a roadcourse track car that didn't put out the most power when it was originally introduced. They weren't full of frills, they couldn't be had with A/C or power steering. Would it sell today that way? Not many.
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