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Old 10-28-2008, 02:07 AM   #35
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:18 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chappy48 View Post
http://www.v6performance.net/forums/index.php

Take a look at the number of posts and threads compared to this site. There have been a lot of people that have taken it into their own hands to get some stuff out there for the Accord in the face of the aftermarket industry which has left it out to dry.
I'm a member of this site; it's really helpful actually.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:12 AM   #37
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For the last 4 years, I knew I going to buy a new GTI, when I could afford reasonable payments. When the 7th gen Accord coupe came out, I knew I was going to get a V6 version of it. And as of two months ago, I know I will be getting a 2LT/RS. I'll be buying late in the summer.

I'm still not sure which car I'll get between the Accord or the Camaro. Both have their pros and cons. Most of is has to do with personal preference. I like the center console and gauges better on the accord, but they would look ridiculous on a Camaro. I like the Camaro's styling better, and I like it's mpg better since it'll be my dd for downtown Atlanta. I would say cost is comparable between both when you take into account what you get and what dealers will actually charge. Accords generally sell below MSRP, and it looks like it may be some time before the Camaro does.

I drive a 93 Accord now. I love cars in general, so this is a special kind of torture since it's underpowered and old as hell. However, it's always been more reliable than any of my friends' cars. There's something to be said for that as well.

Bottom line, I'm leaning towards the Camaro, but I won't decide anything until I test drive both.
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:04 PM   #38
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Guys I think you’re missing a point here that is being overlooked by emotion. That being the current generation (18-28 year olds) of buyers that have grown up with Imports.

I say this because when my 27 year old son (currently stationed in Iraq) sent me an e-mail asking advice on what NEW car he should buy when he returns in April, he already spec'd out the Accord V6 coupe. When I mentioned the new Camaro his reply was "Dad that's so 80's".

The vast majority of responders here are OLD gear heads that grew up with the F-Bodies and are now standing in line to buy the new one. But it's the younger generation that GM needs to win over else they will forfeit their future.

And BTW I had TWO slots at my local Cheby emporium and ordered him a 2SS/RS. But many of his contemporaries (in the USAF) all harbor the same feelings, they lean towards the Imports.

That's why the Accord (and other Imports) are IN DIRECT COMPRTITION with the Camaro.
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:19 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by OUTATIME View Post
I honestly think it's a legitimate comparison - for the Accord/Altima Coupe, not sedans (at all). If GM was able to tear me away from Honda to the extent that I'm visiting this site every hour for updates, a new color, a new angle, ANYTHING (and believe me, Honda fans don't go easily), how many more people like me are there? I have NEVER been a fan of the Mustang or Challenger <- retro-revival style wise/engine options - either too much or too little; GM knew they were making this car (Camaro V6) appeal to the import crowd in addition to the muscle fans. All the testing we've been seeing shows they're taking reliability very seriously.

um forgive me, but isn't that saying your job sucks so bad you spend all your time here? Just saying....
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:23 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by QS78 View Post
since u already own a vette, I would recommend you to go for the accord as a DD for reliability reason !!
Welcome to 1989.....do us a favor. Read some reliability ratings and then come back and edit your inane post.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:08 PM   #41
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I think it is a fair comparo as well. The camaro is going to need to compete with quite a few FWD applications that are in the same performance bracket as the V6 will be in.

Altima Coupe
Accord Coupe
Civic Si (mayyybe its a stretch but the perfrmance is there)
Challenger
Mustang
G6 GXP
Genesis Coupe
Maxima (i know its 4 door but it doesn't come in coupe version like altima civic G6)

Most people are only concered about straigh line performance anyway. It is pretty rare that anyone ever takes a car to its lateral breaking point or auto crosses. (At least in this V6 segment we are observing) So handling will be not a huge concern for potential buyers.

The V6 will fair ok with these other cars but each has its pluses and minuses against each other. I think the quickest to 60 and 1/4 will be the new accord at 5.6 / 14.0 with the camaro right behind it in the 1/4.

FWD gets the nod in bad weather but it harder to control with tq and just less fun. Camaro will fair well in MSRP to most as well but not get the best MPG of the bunch. I think it will steal a lot of sales as well once they are all over the street and more of the regular world sees them. We are the few that are following a car before its release. The average joe/jane doesn't even know there is a camaro coming out...yet
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:13 PM   #42
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Fastball is correct. In the consumer market, especially when comparing V6s in the mid-high $20k range, Accord is a direct competitor. GM knows it. A lot of us are comparing performance competitors with market segment competing cars, which are too separate issues, BUT these cars do compare on both levels.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:28 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by CamaroSSforme View Post
um forgive me, but isn't that saying your job sucks so bad you spend all your time here? Just saying....
Correction - I'm a student coming out of grad school going into a job that's going to suck so bad.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:52 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by QS78 View Post
since u already own a vette, I would recommend you to go for the accord as a DD for reliability reason !!
Ouch, wheres the for camaros big brother? I'm hurt.
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Old 10-28-2008, 04:55 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mblock66 View Post
I think it is a fair comparo as well. The camaro is going to need to compete with quite a few FWD applications that are in the same performance bracket as the V6 will be in.

Altima Coupe
Accord Coupe
Civic Si (mayyybe its a stretch but the perfrmance is there)
Challenger
Mustang
G6 GXP
Genesis Coupe
Maxima (i know its 4 door but it doesn't come in coupe version like altima civic G6)

Most people are only concered about straigh line performance anyway. It is pretty rare that anyone ever takes a car to its lateral breaking point or auto crosses. (At least in this V6 segment we are observing) So handling will be not a huge concern for potential buyers.

The V6 will fair ok with these other cars but each has its pluses and minuses against each other. I think the quickest to 60 and 1/4 will be the new accord at 5.6 / 14.0 with the camaro right behind it in the 1/4.

FWD gets the nod in bad weather but it harder to control with tq and just less fun. Camaro will fair well in MSRP to most as well but not get the best MPG of the bunch. I think it will steal a lot of sales as well once they are all over the street and more of the regular world sees them. We are the few that are following a car before its release. The average joe/jane doesn't even know there is a camaro coming out...yet
And many people who buy those cars don't know or care which wheel drive it is..... front, rear, whatever. Is the car cool? Is is built well? Does it have modern features and design? Does it ride and handle well (again, forgetting which wheel drive it is because most people don't give a hoot)


There are two distinct, sepparate people who buy Camaros and Mustangs and those who buy the competition: Those who typically buy Camaros and Mustangs are dedicated to domestics and won't even bother shopping at a Honda or Nissan dealer: this group, while still vocally strong, is shrinking by the second.

The other group is the folks who were either raised on Japanese engineered cars (you really can't say import anymore when some of them contain more American parts and labor than cars made by Ford or GM) or left American cars after a really bad experience (which is my case).

In order for GM to just get back to profitability, forget market share, just profitability, they must make the Camaro work financially. Which means the V6 must be appealing to people who would never consider an American car. It does that. It really does. The 6 speed transmissions, the DOHC VVT DI engine (import snobs love accronyms even though most have no clue what they do), attention to detail, and the quality of the whole package is what will draw those people in.

In other words, they care less about who made it than if it's made right.
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Old 10-28-2008, 05:04 PM   #46
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Old 10-28-2008, 05:48 PM   #47
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Good post fastball. I think people underestimate the amount of young people who still like american cars. Yea, a lot seem to think they all suck but there's a good amount of us that would buy American if given the chance. My first car was a 1990 Honda Accord. With barely 100k miles on it, it really started acting up (transmission, distributor, other stuff). That left a bad taste in my mouth so it really goes both ways. My dad's Yukon XL just hit 250k miles the other day.
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:13 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UCF w00t View Post
Good post fastball. I think people underestimate the amount of young people who still like american cars. Yea, a lot seem to think they all suck but there's a good amount of us that would buy American if given the chance. My first car was a 1990 Honda Accord. With barely 100k miles on it, it really started acting up (transmission, distributor, other stuff). That left a bad taste in my mouth so it really goes both ways. My dad's Yukon XL just hit 250k miles the other day.
Don't say that!!! My 93 Accord is at 96,000 miles!!! I need to sell this thing before everything goes wrong! :upset:
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:33 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mblock66 View Post
I think it is a fair comparo as well. The camaro is going to need to compete with quite a few FWD applications that are in the same performance bracket as the V6 will be in.

Altima Coupe
Accord Coupe
Civic Si (mayyybe its a stretch but the perfrmance is there)
Challenger
Mustang
G6 GXP
Genesis Coupe
Maxima (i know its 4 door but it doesn't come in coupe version like altima civic G6)

Most people are only concered about straight line performance anyway. It is pretty rare that anyone ever takes a car to its lateral breaking point or auto crosses. (At least in this V6 segment we are observing) So handling will be not a huge concern for potential buyers.

The V6 will fair ok with these other cars but each has its pluses and minuses against each other. I think the quickest to 60 and 1/4 will be the new accord at 5.6 / 14.0 with the camaro right behind it in the 1/4.

FWD gets the nod in bad weather but it harder to control with tq and just less fun. Camaro will fair well in MSRP to most as well but not get the best MPG of the bunch. I think it will steal a lot of sales as well once they are all over the street and more of the regular world sees them. We are the few that are following a car before its release. The average joe/jane doesn't even know there is a camaro coming out...yet
I agree with Mblock on this. Mblock isn't saying at all that any of these cars are better than the Camaro V6, or will be as fun to drive, or even look anywhere as sexy... , but and I'll point out the cars that I know stock may be a problem for the V6 Camaro, it's going to be the Altima V6, Accord V6, and the new Nissan Maxima V6, not to mention such cars such as the Cobalt SS, and 09 Subaru WRX even though these cars aren't really anywhere in the same segment as the Camaro V6 of course.

The Camaro V6 will also obliterate the Challenger V6 and current gen Mustang V6, which has already been mentioned. And the average person that buys an Accord V6, or a Maxima isn't going to be buying one for the purpose of racing people, of course not, and I don't think anyone is saying that.

HOWEVER... the point is that there are other stock V6 and other cars out there that may be just as quick if not quicker than the Camaro V6, no one is saying that that's important, but just so people are aware the Camaro V6 while quick it is for its class, isn't going to necessarily be the best performing V6 sporty car out there...
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:41 AM   #50
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Quote:
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Comparing the 6 speed manual Accord Coupe to a Camaro is a very legitimate comparison, and it better be because GM needs the Camaro V6 to pull in people who might otherwise look at an Accord coupe, Nissan Altima V6 coupe, and perhaps a Toyota Solara V6 coupe.

For Camaro to succeed, the V6 must hold its own against those others, even the BMW 1 series. You can no longer look at just the Mustang and Challenger as the only competition for Camaro. It's a global automotive market, and Camaro must compete and succeed if we all want to see it make it past this first run of the 5th generation.

Seriously, what other coupe does GM offer with a manual transmission, DOHC V6, and under 30k? Camaro is it.

Forget the old days when it was only the Mustang. In fact, outside of the SS, I don't think it is fair to limit Camaro's scope to just the same old competition.

I totally agree that Honda ACCORD coupe (a totally different car from the sedan) is a serious competitor. GM has a whole new demographic who have never driven a North American sports coupe.

My rear wheel drive car is a 72 GTO. I have had 3 Vettes (66 76 78 all sticks) We also have a Honda coupe stick. The interior /exterior measurements with 2010 Camaro are within fragments of an inch (mm's up HERE in the Great White North ). We also know something about driving both RWD and FWD in bad weather. The TORQUE steer is scary on the Honda with V6 stick, (worse than my STS ) and is distracting when you have another car in the losing lane. Too much power in a FWD in the snow is not as much fun as a RWD imo.

There are two generations of drivers out there who have NEVER driven a RWD if they don't own a Vette. Look out!

The good news is after they buy a 2010 ...decide they don't know how to drive it ........there will be lots of low miles Camaro's at the Rice Dealers.

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Old 10-29-2008, 01:16 AM   #51
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I absolutely hate how FWD cars handle. Even more so in bad weather. My camaro is way better in snow then my gf's Corolla. Both with snow tires. I would never consider owning one, ever. Too much power in FWD is terrible also. After experiencing torque steer for the first time I couldn't understand why anyone would like this. This severely limits my choices as japanese manufacturers are in love with FWD. There is a reason why best cars in the world are RWD. You don't see any BMWs that are FWD.
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