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Chevy Camaro vs... Comparison of Chevy Camaro versus its competition. *NO STREET RACING STORIES*

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Old 10-29-2008, 12:16 AM   #51
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I absolutely hate how FWD cars handle. Even more so in bad weather. My camaro is way better in snow then my gf's Corolla. Both with snow tires. I would never consider owning one, ever. Too much power in FWD is terrible also. After experiencing torque steer for the first time I couldn't understand why anyone would like this. This severely limits my choices as japanese manufacturers are in love with FWD. There is a reason why best cars in the world are RWD. You don't see any BMWs that are FWD.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:51 AM   #52
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Old 10-29-2008, 01:16 AM   #53
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The Challenger is auto only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only the 2008my. The 6 speed manual is a $2000 option (canadian) probalby about 1200 USD.
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:55 AM   #54
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The Accord is NOT a competitor for the Camaro. Granted, every car is aiming for a slice of the pie, and is technically a competitor (heck, even the Camaro and Corvette will compete against each other for sales now).

But sorry folks, the Accord is NOT a direct competitor. Nor is the Camry/Solara. Nor is the Mazda 6. Nor is the Nissan Altima or Maxima. Nor is the Civic, Corolla, or any other front wheel drive family vehicle. They are NOT direct competitors, and I they shouldn't be compared at all (except for the import fanatics that are holding onto some hope).
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:25 AM   #55
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Umm......... all y'all serious

The only V6 coupe that will be able to smoke or be on its ass is the G37X coupe

AWD 6speed auto

Hands down..........
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:33 AM   #56
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Umm......... all y'all serious

The only V6 coupe that will be able to smoke or be on its ass is the G37X coupe

AWD 6speed auto

Hands down..........
How do you figure? If the Accord Coupe is 5.6 to 60 and I think the Altima Coupe is 5.8. And how anyone could think these aren't competition for the camaro are smoking something. They are all performance V6 coupes in the same price range PERIOD.

Yes one is RWD and one FWD but that doesn't limit them from being each other competition. You are very close minded if you really think the only competition for this V6 Camaro is the V6 mustang and challenger. Those cars make up such a small small market of V6 coupe buyers out there.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:31 AM   #57
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How do you figure? If the Accord Coupe is 5.6 to 60 and I think the Altima Coupe is 5.8. And how anyone could think these aren't competition for the camaro are smoking something. They are all performance V6 coupes in the same price range PERIOD.

Yes one is RWD and one FWD but that doesn't limit them from being each other competition. You are very close minded if you really think the only competition for this V6 Camaro is the V6 mustang and challenger. Those cars make up such a small small market of V6 coupe buyers out there.
Right you are Mblock...

Listen I'm a domestic fan boy more than anything... but "DIRECT COMPETITION" or NOT

if the V6 Camaro does 0-60 in 5.9-6.1 which are the only "legitimate" #'s we've seen and if the V6 FWD Accord, Camry, Altima, and Maxima are doing 0-60 in 5.6-5.8 guess who's faster? (although certainly does not = better)

bc I'd rather take the Camaro V6 hands down....

But get the point?
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:59 AM   #58
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Everything I've seen has the Accord and Altima doing the 0-60 in 5.9-6.3 secs.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...7/pageNumber=5
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:06 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Beau Tie View Post
The Accord is NOT a competitor for the Camaro. Granted, every car is aiming for a slice of the pie, and is technically a competitor (heck, even the Camaro and Corvette will compete against each other for sales now).

But sorry folks, the Accord is NOT a direct competitor. Nor is the Camry/Solara. Nor is the Mazda 6. Nor is the Nissan Altima or Maxima. Nor is the Civic, Corolla, or any other front wheel drive family vehicle. They are NOT direct competitors, and I they shouldn't be compared at all (except for the import fanatics that are holding onto some hope).

It's a good thing you don't work for GM. That kind of thinking going back 30 years has contributed to the slow demise of the company.

What does GM offer right now that can go toe to toe with an Accord EX V6 coupe 6 speed manual for 28k???? Tell me????

Keep in mind we are talking the Accord and Altima COUPE V6s, not the sedans or 4 cylinder models.

Neither one of those are very family friendly if you've ever been inside one or seen the trunk.

Again, before you respond, do a little research on the features, specs, and prices of the V6 Accord and Altima coupes, and tell me they don't sit right on the same chesterfield as a Camaro V6.
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:47 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by UCF w00t View Post
Everything I've seen has the Accord and Altima doing the 0-60 in 5.9-6.3 secs.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...7/pageNumber=5
I'm a better driver than the test drivers that Edmunds uses... Haha don't use any #'s for Edmunds... they are so way off it's not even funny...

Quote:
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Again, before you respond, do a little research on the features, specs, and prices of the V6 Accord and Altima coupes, and tell me they don't sit right on the same chesterfield as a Camaro V6.
Thank you fastball. You can't get too near minded, the Camaro is a great car, and I hope to have a SS sitting in my driveway hopefully in a few years, but the "competition" of the Camaro V6 is not as weak as you may think...

Oh and the only V6 FWD Coupe that I can think of that GM offers that will compete with the Accord, and Altima V6 Coupes would be the Pontiac G6 Coupe GXP...
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Old 10-29-2008, 06:16 PM   #61
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Pontiac G6 Coupe GXP...
And you can't get a manual on that anymore (GM offered a 6 speed stick the first year it was out, the one and only year they offered it)
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:17 PM   #62
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I think something to consider when comparing other cars in the same category as the Camaro V6 is that those cars are not built to handle the power of a V8. It is sort of like comparing the 4cylinder Accord coupe to a Civic coupe. The accord coupe is overbuilt for the v6 motor, so the 4 cylinder model is not really competitive with other cars where the 4 cylinder is the highest offering. Of course, I think the Camaro does compete with all the v6 sport versions offered by other manufacturer's, certainly more so than the mustang or challenger do. It might have a weight penalty due to the stronger chassis, but it certainly has an awesome drivetrain, is RWD, and has the interior quality to compare to any cars near the price range.

I think the Camaro V6 will do well and likely have a stronger aftermarket than you typically see with the Japanese cars.
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:31 PM   #63
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I think some members are getting misled by words. Seems like a lot of people agree, even when arguing.

The direct competitors for the Camaro are the Mustang and Challenger. Then there are the indirect competitors. For the V6 they include any sporty V6 or turbo 4 within a few thousand dollars. The SS will be competing with any performance car from the high 20's to about 40k. These indirect competitors are not the first car you would pit the Camaro against, but they will offer similar performance at a similar price.
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:02 PM   #64
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And you can't get a manual on that anymore (GM offered a 6 speed stick the first year it was out, the one and only year they offered it)
I know... MY2006 to be exact.... I know because I almost got the G6 GTP with the 3.9L V6 with the 6spd manual. For a FWD car it was pretty nice. I ended up leasing a 06 Cobalt SS Supercharged instead just for the fact that the Cobalt SS was 5k cheaper... Made alot of difference in the monthly payments... lol

Oh and DG3 made a good point. The V6 Challenger and Mustang will be the direct competitors to the V6 Camaro, which it blows the doors off of... But it's the indirect competition you may have to watch out for....
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:11 PM   #65
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It's a good thing you don't work for GM. That kind of thinking going back 30 years has contributed to the slow demise of the company.

What does GM offer right now that can go toe to toe with an Accord EX V6 coupe 6 speed manual for 28k???? Tell me????

Keep in mind we are talking the Accord and Altima COUPE V6s, not the sedans or 4 cylinder models.

Neither one of those are very family friendly if you've ever been inside one or seen the trunk.

Again, before you respond, do a little research on the features, specs, and prices of the V6 Accord and Altima coupes, and tell me they don't sit right on the same chesterfield as a Camaro V6.
A Honda Accord EX V6 coupe 6 speed manual for 28k is a lot more expensive than the base V6 Camaro which starts at 22k. At 30k, the V8 SS is in the same price range and be able to put to shame the Honda..When you compare any car, make sure you take into account the price however the best bang for your buck currently will be the 1SS Camaro vs all its American and foreign competitors. The 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe you could say will be a competitor against the Camaro V6 since it claims to reach 0-60 in 6 seconds. However I doubt the Genesis will be priced at 22k or near it.. So compare apples to apples here..
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:59 PM   #66
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To be fair, the indirect competitors (that's what I'll be calling the Accord, Altima, etc, etc) are better equipped option-wise compared to the LS Camaro, since they are the top-end models for those cars.

Strictly performance speaking, though -- none of them can touch the Camaro for the price....
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:29 PM   #67
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A Honda Accord EX V6 coupe 6 speed manual for 28k is a lot more expensive than the base V6 Camaro which starts at 22k. At 30k, the V8 SS is in the same price range and be able to put to shame the Honda..When you compare any car, make sure you take into account the price however the best bang for your buck currently will be the 1SS Camaro vs all its American and foreign competitors. The 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe you could say will be a competitor against the Camaro V6 since it claims to reach 0-60 in 6 seconds. However I doubt the Genesis will be priced at 22k or near it.. So compare apples to apples here..
Yes, apples to apples..... a 2LT will be right at 28k. EXACTLY where the Accord EX V6 coupe 6 speed manual is. The base Camaros exist for nothing more than a price point entry. Yes, they will sell a few. But I bet there will be even fewer LS trims on dealer lots than 2SS trims. I will also bet real money that the majority of ALL Camaro sales will be the 2LT. This will be the trim GM uses to advertise and refer to when they talk about the Camaro. Leather, heated seats, put on a mooroof and boom, you can cross check every feature, to the letter (with the exception of the interior lighting package) that the Accord 6 speed has.

It is a very fair, accurate, and relevant comparison.

People looking at a 2LT might see the 1SS as very close in price, but get put off by the drop in fuel economy and premium fuel requirement. Not to mention the higher insurance. DO NOT FORGET - the SS exists mainly because of us enthusiasts. I may even go as far to say, unfortunately, that the SS Camaro may still cary a stigma for a few of the import loving crowd that big honkin V8 and SS badge on the grille must mean you still wear a mullet think Van Halen is cutting edge music - you even have the cassette tapes to prove it. Catch my drift?

THOSE are the people the 1 and 2LT must appeal to. Forget whether the SS is faster. They want sophistication. A DOHC engine. Well ballanced performance, not just a stright line shoot out (even though we all know now that the SS will not be just a straight line performer, but many people still may think of it).

You have to understand the demographic GM is appealing to with the LT.

Camaro cannot survive on just the purists, enthusiasts, and folks who only buy American. It must cross over to a path it's never traveled before, and I think GM is doing the right thing.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:33 PM   #68
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:04 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Beau Tie View Post
The Accord is NOT a competitor for the Camaro. Granted, every car is aiming for a slice of the pie, and is technically a competitor (heck, even the Camaro and Corvette will compete against each other for sales now).

But sorry folks, the Accord is NOT a direct competitor. Nor is the Camry/Solara. Nor is the Mazda 6. Nor is the Nissan Altima or Maxima. Nor is the Civic, Corolla, or any other front wheel drive family vehicle. They are NOT direct competitors, and I they shouldn't be compared at all (except for the import fanatics that are holding onto some hope).
This is kind of thinking is exactly what has put GM shares at a value they were in 1929! And Market share cut in 1/2 in a decade.

Almost junk rated along with Ford.

I have owned 27 GM products. 25 were new. When all GM had in 2000 was a 20+ year old F body design (with a hump in the floor so big the passenger had no leg room), a WE BUILD EXCITEMENT Grand AM ...WITH A 4CYL manual only, OR Sunfire (Cavalier ) my 2 sons living at home (19 and 21 ) said "DAD ... LOOK AT THE ACCORD or Solara " if Mom wants a stick shift.(from our Vette days)

We did ........WE BOUGHT. Oil changes only....No recalls no rattles no bullshit.

Now those 2 drivers are 27 and 29. GM has to win them over. They and the generation behind them WILL NOT buy this car because of it nostalgic looks or a set of 69 gauges at the shifter or because Grampa said so!

Like it or not Toyota will be # 1 next year. We let this happen because we accepted crap for too long. My NBS Silverado is the best of the 10 Chevrolet trucks I have owned. Far better than Tundra too. G8 is a great value and the build quality is as good as anybody. Finally GM gets it.!!!!!!!!

Now is not the time to rest .... GM buying Chryco will not be any better than MB buying it. Just a diversion and sapping of concentration on the real competition. It is a Global Market. That Honda coupe handles better and accelerates quicker than any of my Vettes did. They are a stealth rocket. If you have not driven one then you should not be saying they are not a competitor.

Re this $28000 ??? ...take out the $2500 Navi. APPLES TO APPLES now the same price and you can remote the windows without a key on the Honda. (and a few more tricks)

Winston Churchill said those who fail to know history are doomed to repeat it.

GM Ignored the foreign competition once .....they will not survive if we let them do that again.

Then who will do the warranty?
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:39 PM   #70
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OK, I agree that a fully loaded V6 Camaro 2LT costs about the same as the top end V6 Honda give or take a few extra's here and there.. However one is a tuner sports car and the other is an American muscle car. Two different segments that appeal to two different markets. Granted the Camaro aftermarket team is trying to appeal to the riced up Honda market and I agree with you that they should be trying to. The V6 Camaro with a mroe advanced engine than whats in the more powerful V8 can be upgraded with different parts to boost its speed. 0-60 in 5.9 seconds for a V6 is not a slouch and should compete well with other foriegn brands not to mention its direct American competition..At least for this year until Ford trumps it with their 2010 V6 engine they have planned.. So you see we are arguing about nothing here since we both agree that GM does need to pay attention to and attract every group they can.

Now, my comparison of the base Camaro at $22,000 should be a better buy than a base Honda Accord 2 door coupe at the same price. Not just in looks but performance in my opinion. Forget the extra's and so forth, if you want a real comparison you have to take into account stock base vs stock base model..


Comparison Test: 2008 Honda Accord Coupe vs. 2008 Nissan Altima Coupe

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do.../pageId=132395

Both front wheel drive while camaro is rear wheel drive..

2008 Honda Accord EX-L V-6 2dr Coupe (3.5L 6cyl 6M)

Base Price: $28,945
Price as Tested: $28,945
0 - 60 (sec): 6.3

vs

Nissan Altima 3.5 SE 2dr Coupe (3.5L 6cyl 6M)
Base Price: $25,595
Price as Tested: $29,490
0 - 60 (sec): 6.2

VS

2010 V6 Camaro
Base price: $22,995
Fully Loaded: $26,580
0-60 (sec) 5.9 (perhaps 5.8 as we don't know yet the exact numbers)

As you can see the Camaro is not only a better looking coupe, but also cheaper and faster stock for stock..
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Old 10-29-2008, 11:29 PM   #71
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OK, I agree that a fully loaded V6 Camaro 2LT costs about the same as the top end V6 Honda give or take a few extra's here and there.. However one is a tuner sports car and the other is an American muscle car. Two different segments that appeal to two different markets. Granted the Camaro aftermarket team is trying to appeal to the riced up Honda market and I agree with you that they should be trying to. The V6 Camaro with a mroe advanced engine than whats in the more powerful V8 can be upgraded with different parts to boost its speed. 0-60 in 5.9 seconds for a V6 is not a slouch and should compete well with other foriegn brands not to mention its direct American competition..At least for this year until Ford trumps it with their 2010 V6 engine they have planned.. So you see we are arguing about nothing here since we both agree that GM does need to pay attention to and attract every group they can.

Now, my comparison of the base Camaro at $22,000 should be a better buy than a base Honda Accord 2 door coupe at the same price. Not just in looks but performance in my opinion. Forget the extra's and so forth, if you want a real comparison you have to take into account stock base vs stock base model..


Comparison Test: 2008 Honda Accord Coupe vs. 2008 Nissan Altima Coupe

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do.../pageId=132395

Both front wheel drive while camaro is rear wheel drive..

2008 Honda Accord EX-L V-6 2dr Coupe (3.5L 6cyl 6M)

Base Price: $28,945
Price as Tested: $28,945
0 - 60 (sec): 6.3

vs

Nissan Altima 3.5 SE 2dr Coupe (3.5L 6cyl 6M)
Base Price: $25,595
Price as Tested: $29,490
0 - 60 (sec): 6.2

VS

2010 V6 Camaro
Base price: $22,995
Fully Loaded: $26,580
0-60 (sec) 5.9 (perhaps 5.8 as we don't know yet the exact numbers)

As you can see the Camaro is not only a better looking coupe, but also cheaper and faster stock for stock..
knock at least 3/10ths off those times because edmunds won't properly launch a car. And looks are always subjective.
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Old 10-29-2008, 11:31 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Supermans View Post
Comparison Test: 2008 Honda Accord Coupe vs. 2008 Nissan Altima Coupe

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do.../pageId=132395

Both front wheel drive while camaro is rear wheel drive..

2008 Honda Accord EX-L V-6 2dr Coupe (3.5L 6cyl 6M)

Base Price: $28,945
Price as Tested: $28,945
0 - 60 (sec): 6.3

vs

Nissan Altima 3.5 SE 2dr Coupe (3.5L 6cyl 6M)
Base Price: $25,595
Price as Tested: $29,490
0 - 60 (sec): 6.2

VS

2010 V6 Camaro
Base price: $22,995
Fully Loaded: $26,580
0-60 (sec) 5.9 (perhaps 5.8 as we don't know yet the exact numbers)
What did I say about edmunds? lol You guys really can't use Edmund's straight line performance, because they are WAY OFF... They said my 2006 Cobalt SS did 0-60 in like 6.5 seconds and it does 0-60 in like 5.9.... They can't drive for sh*t...

C&D has more accurate 0-60 times. I've even spoken to staff @ C&D and found out how they measure 0-60 they use way more precise equipment, vs Edmunds who has admitted right in half of their articles they use the G-tech hand held units to measure straight line performance and they are way off...

"Taken from C&D's short take on the Nissan Altima Coupe V6... The coupe drives very much like a slightly lighter, stiffer, and smaller Altima sedan. That means it is pretty darned fast in V-6 form, with 0-to-60-mph acceleration happening in 5.8 seconds (0.1 second quicker than the sedan) and a quarter-mile in 14.6 seconds at 97 mph."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ce+page-2.html

also taken from C&D...

"...the Accord coupe is a better machine than the Altima. It’s certainly fast. The sonorous and smooth 3.5-liter V-6 engine makes a solid 268 horsepower and 248 pound-feet of torque, enough to motivate the car from 0 to 60 mph in 5.6 seconds, 0.2 second quicker than the Altima. The Accord reaches 100 mph from rest in 13.6 seconds,"

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermans View Post
As you can see the Camaro is not only a better looking coupe, but also cheaper and faster stock for stock..
So when the Accord V6 Coupe is doing 0-60 in 5.6 and the 1/4 in 13.6 and the Altima V6 is doing 0-60 in 5.8 and the 1/4 in 14.6 how is the Camaro V6 faster?
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Old 10-29-2008, 11:34 PM   #73
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So when the Accord V6 Coupe is doing 0-60 in 5.6 and the 1/4 in 13.6
Are you sure that was the quarter? They said it "reached 100mph"...
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Old 10-29-2008, 11:37 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Are you sure that was the quarter? They said it "reached 100mph"...
I've never driven an Accord V6 Coupe but they are fast. They are certainly now competition for my SS Supercharged and I never thought I'd see the day... Which is why I'll be upgrading in like 10 months to a Cobalt SS Turbocharged, 09 Impreza WRX, or fingers crossed a 1SS Camaro (although unlikely at this point and time) The Accord V6's 6spd manual has very short gear ratios and allows for it to accelerate that quickly...

And originally I was planning on getting a V6 Camaro however, performance is an important factor in my decision so I decided to play it safe and just go for an SS... And if I can't get it then I'll buy something else and hope in a few years (I graduate from college in 1 yr) that I can get a SS Camaro eventually.

The Accord and Altima are quicker than many people think. AND yes they will be beating Camaro V6's at the light whether people want to believe it or not. Still I'd never own an Accord or Altima personally. I'm really trying to get away from FWD...
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Last edited by SS4EVER; 10-29-2008 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 10-29-2008, 11:58 PM   #75
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Would someone really pick the Accord over 0.3 or maybe 0.4 seconds of difference between the 0-60 times? I don't think that the Camaro being faster was really the argument (which it's probably not according to the mags) and it could end up being a driver's race at that point anyway. It's the total package that will sway most AVERAGE car buyers; and I think it's difficult for some of you to put yourself in those shoes while being enthusiasts.
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