Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Lethal Racing
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Chevy Camaro vs...

Chevy Camaro vs... Comparison of Chevy Camaro versus its competition. *NO STREET RACING STORIES*

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-30-2008, 12:04 AM   #76
SS4EVER
Camaro Convert...
 
Drives: 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Metro Detroit, Mi
Posts: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by OUTATIME View Post
Would someone really pick the Accord over 0.3 or maybe 0.4 seconds of difference between the 0-60 times? I don't think that the Camaro being faster was really the argument (which it's probably not according to the mags) and it could end up being a driver's race at that point anyway. It's the total package that will sway most AVERAGE car buyers; and I think it's difficult for some of you to put yourself in those shoes while being enthusiasts.
No they aren't... And if they do then man do they have a thing or two to learn. Of course the V6 Camaro is going to drive and deliver more of a thrill vs a V6 Accord Coupe or Altima Coupe, RWD>FWD and will always be that way.

However people are underestimating these cars, and if they think they are going to be beating them they are wrong, and for those that think the V6 Camaro is going to be a better performer, may find themselves thinking twice... Yeah throw on a few bolt-ons and you can make up for that half second in 0-60 or in the 1/4... However unless you end up converting to F.I. where you could have a 400hp or 500hp V6 monster, you would end up saving yourself alot of $ if you had just purchased a SS instead, and this is something I've seen happen.

When guys with my car were on the forums this year saying "I just got beat by an Accord last night at a light... wtf?" then we knew something was up, thank God for the Cobalt SS Turbocharged...
__________________
4 life!
Currently Driving: 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged
SS4EVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 12:33 AM   #77
Supermans
Camaro & Stang Enthusiast
 
Supermans's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Mustang 5.0 in Kona Blue
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 4,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS4EVER View Post
What did I say about edmunds? lol You guys really can't use Edmund's straight line performance, because they are WAY OFF... They said my 2006 Cobalt SS did 0-60 in like 6.5 seconds and it does 0-60 in like 5.9.... They can't drive for sh*t...

C&D has more accurate 0-60 times. I've even spoken to staff @ C&D and found out how they measure 0-60 they use way more precise equipment, vs Edmunds who has admitted right in half of their articles they use the G-tech hand held units to measure straight line performance and they are way off...

"Taken from C&D's short take on the Nissan Altima Coupe V6... The coupe drives very much like a slightly lighter, stiffer, and smaller Altima sedan. That means it is pretty darned fast in V-6 form, with 0-to-60-mph acceleration happening in 5.8 seconds (0.1 second quicker than the sedan) and a quarter-mile in 14.6 seconds at 97 mph."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ce+page-2.html

also taken from C&D...

"...the Accord coupe is a better machine than the Altima. It’s certainly fast. The sonorous and smooth 3.5-liter V-6 engine makes a solid 268 horsepower and 248 pound-feet of torque, enough to motivate the car from 0 to 60 mph in 5.6 seconds, 0.2 second quicker than the Altima. The Accord reaches 100 mph from rest in 13.6 seconds,"

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test



So when the Accord V6 Coupe is doing 0-60 in 5.6 and the 1/4 in 13.6 and the Altima V6 is doing 0-60 in 5.8 and the 1/4 in 14.6 how is the Camaro V6 faster?
I'm glad at least this one brought about an interesting discussion. Hopefully the camaro V6 gets a faster 0-60 by launch then if not it will be beaten by a Honda Accord with two good drivers in the seat. Edmunds needs to update their times with real world times.. In either case all cars close to the same price range could be considered competition even though they are not all in the same class.

As for looks, we all know which one subjectively looks sexier
__________________
Bought my Camaro from Eric Hall(817) 421-7266
Supermans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 02:52 AM   #78
swifttal
Man, this guy's a d!*k
 
swifttal's Avatar
 
Drives: '91 Z-28, '94 BMW 540i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Honolulu, Hi
Posts: 445
Ok... Just a few key points here

Faster in a straight line arguement - any one who drags their car doesn't keep theirs stock. Dollar for dollar, you'll get more HP out if the camaro

Next point - for the arguement that we need to attract the younger performance crowd - fine. But if you've been sleeping for the last few years you might not have noticed that drifting has been the latest thing for a while now. Can't do that w/ fwd/awd/4wd.

Whoever is using the reliabilty card is straight ignorant - change your frickin oil on schedule and you won't have a problem with any quality car. Welcome to post 1989, I hope you enjoyed your coma.

And finally, no, the accord is not competition - comparisson fine (which is the title of the thread, and educative Ill thank you for), but not competition. Drag racing fans won't pick either v6 cars. You can't drift in an accord, and someone concerned with reliabily and fuel economy will buy a prius or a camry if they're the average buyer... some other GM car if they're smart (GM has more fuel efficient cars than any other company)

Edit: also, if there are any uncorrected word spellings above, please forgive me as this post really was sent from my iPhone

Last edited by swifttal; 10-30-2008 at 03:06 AM.
swifttal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 03:17 AM   #79
OUR72GTO
2010 SIM Beige RS 6M
 
OUR72GTO's Avatar
 
Drives: SIM RS 6M 72 GTO 07 NBS Silverado
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kamloops,British Columbia
Posts: 4,586
YIKES ..... I thought you can only drive in circles on an Island!

PS I was putting in so much oil on each trip in my low miles STS that it was changed daily!!!!
OUR72GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 06:39 AM   #80
Beau Tie
 
Beau Tie's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Cobalt, 2007 Camry
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 145
Send a message via AIM to Beau Tie
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastball View Post
It's a good thing you don't work for GM. That kind of thinking going back 30 years has contributed to the slow demise of the company.

What does GM offer right now that can go toe to toe with an Accord EX V6 coupe 6 speed manual for 28k???? Tell me????

Keep in mind we are talking the Accord and Altima COUPE V6s, not the sedans or 4 cylinder models.

Neither one of those are very family friendly if you've ever been inside one or seen the trunk.

Again, before you respond, do a little research on the features, specs, and prices of the V6 Accord and Altima coupes, and tell me they don't sit right on the same chesterfield as a Camaro V6.
I have no need to research before I respond. I have been reading, buying, leasing, researching, racing, pampering, breathing and living cars since I was 12 (24 years). I have a veritable plethora of knowledge when it comes to cars, and what cars are direct competitors. Every make, model in existence.

I will say it again. The Honda Accord and Nissan Altima are NOT direct competitors to the Camaro. I will say that again. The Nissan Altima and Honda Accord are NOT direct competitors to the Camaro. The only thing they compete for, are any piece of the market they can grab. Just because I can get an F150, 2 door with a 300 hp V-8 with RWD for the same price as a Camaro (which has 2 doors, 300hp, RWD) doesn't mean they are competitors.

Just because the Altima and Accord have similar 0-60 numbers and pricing doesn't make them competitors.

As for your question about what car competes against the Accord V6 coupe from GM? Last time they had a competitor for the Accord, Altima and Solara coupe was the Monte Carlo and G6 GXP Coupe.

What you need to understand is, there is a difference between competition and direct competition. The H3T Hummer could be considered "competition" for the Ridgline. But they are not direct competition. A person looking to get a Ridgeline will not (majority here...so as to avoid a blanket statement) cross shop an H3T.

The Camaro is an American muscle car. It has an American heritage. It's a car with grunt, it's a car with RWD performance. It was designed to appeal to Americans, young and old, who want to retain the American heritage of automobiles, and experience "muscle" car orgasms. They want to light their rear tires up. They want smoke to billow out the back of their cars if they feel the desire to at any time. They want to whip their back ends out through a chicane, or even take some tread off the Goodyear tires with the occasional donut.

They also want it to be their daily driver, and be able to see their American Camaro muscle car, gleeming, backed into a parking stall, 30 stalls down from the closest car, and take second glances at it as they walk into the store.

They get a feeling of patriotism, a feeling of red, white and blue freedom. The majority of people looking to buy a Camaro, want all of the above, and will NEVER (again....majority), cross shop for an Accord Coupe. The only two things they have in common are a couple of statistics on paper.

The real competition for the Camaro, is...and always will be cars like the Mustang and the Challenger. Even the high end SS2 will be cross shopped by people looking to get into an entry level Corvette.

Don't talk to me about "doing my research". I have enough research in my head, that I am surprised it hasn't exploded yet. If you are really looking to "insult" or attempt to belittle others, you have come to the wrong person my friend.

That said, the Accord Coupe is a decent car. (as is the Altima and defunct Solara).
__________________
Beau Tie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 08:35 AM   #81
SS4EVER
Camaro Convert...
 
Drives: 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Metro Detroit, Mi
Posts: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermans View Post
I'm glad at least this one brought about an interesting discussion. Hopefully the camaro V6 gets a faster 0-60 by launch then if not it will be beaten by a Honda Accord with two good drivers in the seat.
Yeah, the differences are so small that it would clearly be a drivers race, and seeing that RWD is much better to launch vs FWD, despite the .3 or so of a second that the Accord may have on the Camaro (we don't know yet) clearly can be made up by a skilled driver in the Camaro V6...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermans View Post
Edmunds needs to update their times with real world times.. In either case all cars close to the same price range could be considered competition even though they are not all in the same class.
They really do... I hate it when they post straight line performance #'s. I would never trust them, especially in my experience. C&D actually uses some of the same methods that the auto makers use when measuring mfr stats, (like lazer chronographs, timers, etc) some of the differences however is that C&D may do a dozen launches and they take the quickest launch. Something like that the C&D staff told me... lol I'm trying to get an internship @ their Ann Arbor, Mi headquarters this summer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermans View Post
As for looks, we all know which one subjectively looks sexier
oh yes we do.... Camaro = one of the sexiest cars out there right now...
__________________
4 life!
Currently Driving: 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged
SS4EVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 12:26 PM   #82
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,704
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beau Tie View Post
I will say it again. The Honda Accord and Nissan Altima are NOT direct competitors to the Camaro. I will say that again. The Nissan Altima and Honda Accord are NOT direct competitors to the Camaro.
But would you agree that it would be wise for Chevy to market the V6 Camaro towards the people who normally buy Accord V6s, and Altima V6s, etc (in addition to the red, white, and blue-blooded people you mentioned later on)?

In my opinion, they'd be really ignoring a fine chunk of potential buyers if they didn't.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
Past: 2012 Camaro ZL1 (For sale through Tom Henry Chevrolet)

Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 01:12 PM   #83
Beau Tie
 
Beau Tie's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Cobalt, 2007 Camry
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 145
Send a message via AIM to Beau Tie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
But would you agree that it would be wise for Chevy to market the V6 Camaro towards the people who normally buy Accord V6s, and Altima V6s, etc (in addition to the red, white, and blue-blooded people you mentioned later on)?

In my opinion, they'd be really ignoring a fine chunk of potential buyers if they didn't.
I think that if they made a sporty coupe version of the Malibu with a high output V6, they could market that against the Accord Coupe.

The question you ask is almost tricky (not that you were trying to be tricky). I DO think it would be wise for Chevrolet to market their car against all other cars out there, and try to obtain as much business (sales) as possible.

Do I think they should specifically market the car against the Altima or Accord, say, in a commercial, print, web? Heavens no. If they do take customers away from the Accord or Altima, more power to them. However, I don't believe there would be any ROI if they specifically marketed this particular car against them.

Edit: Now this is just my humble opinion. Please don't take this as fact.
__________________
Beau Tie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 01:44 PM   #84
SS4EVER
Camaro Convert...
 
Drives: 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Metro Detroit, Mi
Posts: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beau Tie View Post
I think that if they made a sporty coupe version of the Malibu with a high output V6, they could market that against the Accord Coupe.
The only car GM has to compete against these FWD V6 Coupes is the Pontiac G6 GTP, which I hate to say this but I'd rather own an Accord V6 Coupe, or Altima 3.5S Coupe over that car...

GM clearly needs something.... & price wise I think the Camaro V6 "ON PAPER" could compete with them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beau Tie View Post
"Do I think they should specifically market the car against the Altima or Accord, say, in a commercial, print, web? Heavens no. If they do take customers away from the Accord or Altima, more power to them. However, I don't believe there would be any ROI if they specifically marketed this particular car against them."
You are right about that. And GM definitely won't be marketing the Camaro V6 against cars like the Altima and the Accord. But rather the V6 Challenger, and V6 Mustang, which we all know by now.

But I see where Dragoneye is coming from too. If at possible GM somehow manages to pull some Accord & Altima V6 Coupe buyers over to the dark side then more power for GM...
__________________
4 life!
Currently Driving: 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged
SS4EVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 03:20 PM   #85
Beau Tie
 
Beau Tie's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Cobalt, 2007 Camry
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 145
Send a message via AIM to Beau Tie
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS4EVER View Post
But I see where Dragoneye is coming from too. If at possible GM somehow manages to pull some Accord & Altima V6 Coupe buyers over to the dark side then more power for GM...
Can't argue with that. A sale is a sale.
__________________
Beau Tie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 04:14 PM   #86
fastball
White 'n Nerdy
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 1,634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beau Tie View Post
I have no need to research before I respond. I have been reading, buying, leasing, researching, racing, pampering, breathing and living cars since I was 12 (24 years). I have a veritable plethora of knowledge when it comes to cars, and what cars are direct competitors. Every make, model in existence.

I will say it again. The Honda Accord and Nissan Altima are NOT direct competitors to the Camaro. I will say that again. The Nissan Altima and Honda Accord are NOT direct competitors to the Camaro. The only thing they compete for, are any piece of the market they can grab. Just because I can get an F150, 2 door with a 300 hp V-8 with RWD for the same price as a Camaro (which has 2 doors, 300hp, RWD) doesn't mean they are competitors.

Just because the Altima and Accord have similar 0-60 numbers and pricing doesn't make them competitors.

As for your question about what car competes against the Accord V6 coupe from GM? Last time they had a competitor for the Accord, Altima and Solara coupe was the Monte Carlo and G6 GXP Coupe.

What you need to understand is, there is a difference between competition and direct competition. The H3T Hummer could be considered "competition" for the Ridgline. But they are not direct competition. A person looking to get a Ridgeline will not (majority here...so as to avoid a blanket statement) cross shop an H3T.

The Camaro is an American muscle car. It has an American heritage. It's a car with grunt, it's a car with RWD performance. It was designed to appeal to Americans, young and old, who want to retain the American heritage of automobiles, and experience "muscle" car orgasms. They want to light their rear tires up. They want smoke to billow out the back of their cars if they feel the desire to at any time. They want to whip their back ends out through a chicane, or even take some tread off the Goodyear tires with the occasional donut.

They also want it to be their daily driver, and be able to see their American Camaro muscle car, gleeming, backed into a parking stall, 30 stalls down from the closest car, and take second glances at it as they walk into the store.

They get a feeling of patriotism, a feeling of red, white and blue freedom. The majority of people looking to buy a Camaro, want all of the above, and will NEVER (again....majority), cross shop for an Accord Coupe. The only two things they have in common are a couple of statistics on paper.

The real competition for the Camaro, is...and always will be cars like the Mustang and the Challenger. Even the high end SS2 will be cross shopped by people looking to get into an entry level Corvette.

Don't talk to me about "doing my research". I have enough research in my head, that I am surprised it hasn't exploded yet. If you are really looking to "insult" or attempt to belittle others, you have come to the wrong person my friend.

That said, the Accord Coupe is a decent car. (as is the Altima and defunct Solara).
Besides the fact the Camaro is RWD and the Accord is FWD, there is nothing to make them near as drastically different as you try to describe. An F150???? Please.

Ask Scott. Go ahead, ask him..... he will tell you GM is going to try really hard to get the notion that the Camaro is an American "muscle car" out of people's heads. He's already alluded to that. The SS is there simply for us passionate enthusiasts, historical purposes, and "bragging rights" over any Mustang and Challenger owner. But the truth of the matter is GM could put any other badge on the car, and change the front and rear end design so it doesn't look like a Camaro, remove the SS trim option completely, and the LT would be put up against an Accord V6 coupe and Altima V6 coupe in every, single review and comparison. In fact,

http://www.camaro5.com/goods/camaroorderingworkbook.pdf

scroll down to page 12. GM already understands the fundamental difference in the customer focus of the LT and SS.

Trust me, I understand everything you are saying. Years ago, that was the mentality of most of us here on this forum, and most of the people working for GM. There was no way any Camaro, 4 cylinder, V6, or V8 would ever be compared to anything made by a Japanese company.

But this is 2008, not 1988. Times have changed, and if you haven't noticed, so has GM's market share, finacial status, and the way the global automotive market competes. For GM to be successfull, the V6 Camaro must attract people never even considered years ago. For that, it must be competitive to what else is out there in the market. The Monte Carlo was a joke compared to the Accord. The G6 can't be had with a stick, and there isn't a Malibu coupe so the focus for the Camaro V6 is what it's never been before: a modern, sophisticated touring coupe.
__________________
fastball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 07:48 PM   #87
Dom
 
Drives: 2000 Z28
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rockford
Posts: 119
2008 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L V-6 - Specs

PRICE AS TESTED: $31,145 (base price: $28,945)

I think this is more of a SS competitor. MSRP is only about $1K more. I would definitely not put this car in the same price range as a LS with almost $7K lower base.
__________________
2000 Z28 - current daily
1996 Camaro 3.8 - previous daily
Dom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 09:03 PM   #88
fastball
White 'n Nerdy
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 1,634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom View Post
2008 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L V-6 - Specs

PRICE AS TESTED: $31,145 (base price: $28,945)

I think this is more of a SS competitor. MSRP is only about $1K more. I would definitely not put this car in the same price range as a LS with almost $7K lower base.

That price is with navigation. Without nav it's 28k.
__________________
fastball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 09:34 PM   #89
Dom
 
Drives: 2000 Z28
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rockford
Posts: 119
I was comparing the base prices. $28,945 for the Accord and $22,245 for the Camaro. That's $6,700 more. Maybe we should compare the base 4 cylinder Accord to the 6 cylinder Camaro. Accord LX-S Coupe at $21,860 seems closer to $22,245. Someone find the 0-60 and 1/4 on that monster.
__________________
2000 Z28 - current daily
1996 Camaro 3.8 - previous daily
Dom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2008, 11:23 PM   #90
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,704
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom View Post
Accord LX-S Coupe at $21,860 seems closer to $22,245. Someone find the 0-60 and 1/4 on that monster.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
Past: 2012 Camaro ZL1 (For sale through Tom Henry Chevrolet)

Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 12:05 AM   #91
OUR72GTO
2010 SIM Beige RS 6M
 
OUR72GTO's Avatar
 
Drives: SIM RS 6M 72 GTO 07 NBS Silverado
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kamloops,British Columbia
Posts: 4,586
It would be a lot better if people who quote BASE prices actually knew what comes in a Honda. You need to 2LT, then "RS" the Camaro at minimum and add a sunroof and others to get close to the V6 standard equipment on the 09 Accord COUPE. The coupe does not share one body panel with the sedan. Price on paper is not the only property a sophisticated buyer is looking for. You still will not get dual zone A/C , Home link, keyless remote windows and more on the Chevy. And the Honda will get you 10% better mileage. ADDS UP AT 4.00 A GALLON.

It appears those who at the ripe old age of 36 who are so closed minded that
their "EXPERT" view is the only right one are not one of the wiser more educated examples of "current" consumer that GM is aiming this car at.

My son has a "Bow TIE " tattooed on his forearm, but his mind is open enough to realize that if CHEVOLET does not attract current and future buyers with this car it WILL go the same way the 05 GTO went and then GM in less than a decade will go the same way as Chrysler. (BTW his 24 Y/O lady says she thinks the 2010 looks " too for old guys" compared to the Honda.

Wait till the YOU TUBE reports come in with some 25 year old who knows how to launch his FWD V6 and speed shifting the close ratio leaves some old 45 year old churning smoke with his BB Camaro (extra cost shifter) who could not hook up.

Have a nice day!
OUR72GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 12:27 AM   #92
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,704
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
fwiw.....


You don't need RS to get the sunroof, and you get homelink on the 2LT...
And I'm not sure where you get the mileage difference...18/27 (Camaro) v 19/28 (Accord V6)...that's maybe 4%.

The Camaro also gets a 6-speed auto where the Honda is only equipped with a 5-speed. And I would be willing to bet big money that the Camaro feels 2x as "sporty" when driving than the Honda.

Then there's the matter of price: $26,580 for the 2LT Camaro v. $28,805 for the Honda V6. Nearly identical in terms of options. If there was direct cross-shopping, I wonder how many people would be willing to sacrifice dual-zone climate control and keyless windows for $2,000 savings.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
Past: 2012 Camaro ZL1 (For sale through Tom Henry Chevrolet)

Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 12:51 AM   #93
OUR72GTO
2010 SIM Beige RS 6M
 
OUR72GTO's Avatar
 
Drives: SIM RS 6M 72 GTO 07 NBS Silverado
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kamloops,British Columbia
Posts: 4,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
You don't need RS to get the sunroof, and you get homelink on the 2LT...
And I'm not sure where you get the mileage difference...18/27 (Camaro) v 19/28 (Accord V6)...that's maybe 4%.

The Camaro also gets a 6-speed auto where the Honda is only equipped with a 5-speed. And I would be willing to bet big money that the Camaro feels 2x as "sporty" when driving than the Honda.

Then there's the matter of price: $26,580 for the 2LT Camaro v. $28,805 for the Honda V6. Nearly identical in terms of options. If there was direct cross-shopping, I wonder how many people would be willing to sacrifice dual-zone climate control and keyless windows for $2,000 savings.
Well as repeated here so often the CAMARO is full MSRP or more with dealer "add ons " (ADD THE SUNROOF too, stock with leather on the Honda )
while a new Honda can be had on Ebay any week for $26,000. Does "Sporty' mean heavy?? AS IN 300LBS HEAVIER?
OUR72GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 01:06 AM   #94
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,704
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by OUR72GTO View Post
Well as repeated here so often the CAMARO is full MSRP or more with dealer "add ons " (ADD THE SUNROOF too, stock with leather on the Honda )
while a new Honda can be had on Ebay any week for $26,000. Does "Sporty' mean heavy?? AS IN 300LBS HEAVIER?
Dealer "add-ons" are traps for any fools who don't know any better or those who are too impatient to walk down the street to another dealer. Not fair or accurate to throw that in the mix, neither is Ebay, because there are no Camaros in existence to even be on Ebay...MSRP is the only fair scale for everybody.

Sunroof, okay -- I could give you that, but do 100% of buyers WANT a sunroof? It's a choice thing, imo, as I certainly don't. But Honda stuffs it down your throat, whereas Chevy gives you a choice (that, when added -- STILL keeps the car's price lower than the Accord: it's only a $900 option)

"Sporty" as in superior handling, and FEEL. Weight, though still a valid question, seems to become a threshold issue. How much more heavy does a car have to be before one can actually FEEL it? But don't take my word -- go read a few of the Reviews, and speak with just a few of the disciples. The V6 car is a most impressive handler -- worthy of much more than a "base-model" designation. None of the magazines made any mention of the car feeling heavy...none of them. And one magazine went so far as to say the Camaro performed like it was the American-version of the Infiniti G37. When I said that, I was simply reaffirming my faith that this car will deliver in leaps and bounds above what the cynics expect from it.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
Past: 2012 Camaro ZL1 (For sale through Tom Henry Chevrolet)

Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 02:11 AM   #95
OUR72GTO
2010 SIM Beige RS 6M
 
OUR72GTO's Avatar
 
Drives: SIM RS 6M 72 GTO 07 NBS Silverado
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kamloops,British Columbia
Posts: 4,586
Well there sure has been a lot of discussion for a subject that the 2nd post dismissed!

How times change ...use to be you bought your Chevy for a 100 bucks over invoice and Honda sold at MSRP only. Now they take $3000 off and free NAVI while GM wants MSRP plus Extras .

Don't forget to vote !!!!!! GM needs 10 billion .
OUR72GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 05:21 AM   #96
Beau Tie
 
Beau Tie's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Cobalt, 2007 Camry
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 145
Send a message via AIM to Beau Tie
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastball View Post
Besides the fact the Camaro is RWD and the Accord is FWD, there is nothing to make them near as drastically different as you try to describe. An F150???? Please.

Ask Scott. Go ahead, ask him..... he will tell you GM is going to try really hard to get the notion that the Camaro is an American "muscle car" out of people's heads. He's already alluded to that. The SS is there simply for us passionate enthusiasts, historical purposes, and "bragging rights" over any Mustang and Challenger owner. But the truth of the matter is GM could put any other badge on the car, and change the front and rear end design so it doesn't look like a Camaro, remove the SS trim option completely, and the LT would be put up against an Accord V6 coupe and Altima V6 coupe in every, single review and comparison. In fact,

http://www.camaro5.com/goods/camaroorderingworkbook.pdf

scroll down to page 12. GM already understands the fundamental difference in the customer focus of the LT and SS.

Trust me, I understand everything you are saying. Years ago, that was the mentality of most of us here on this forum, and most of the people working for GM. There was no way any Camaro, 4 cylinder, V6, or V8 would ever be compared to anything made by a Japanese company.

But this is 2008, not 1988. Times have changed, and if you haven't noticed, so has GM's market share, finacial status, and the way the global automotive market competes. For GM to be successfull, the V6 Camaro must attract people never even considered years ago. For that, it must be competitive to what else is out there in the market. The Monte Carlo was a joke compared to the Accord. The G6 can't be had with a stick, and there isn't a Malibu coupe so the focus for the Camaro V6 is what it's never been before: a modern, sophisticated touring coupe.
Well, your opinion is duly noted

BTW, I don't know who "Scott" is, as I have not been here very long (look at my registration date), nor do I care who Scott is. Nobody else makes my opinions for me or for you.

Fact remains, Chevrolet (GM) IS making this car out to be a "muscle car", no matter what GM or anyone else might convey to you. They intentionally came out with a more reliable, more sophisticated Camaro this generation. However, that doesn't change the fact they they gave it a muscle car "retro" design from the original 69 Camaro. It doesn't change the fact that they gave it a retro, muscle car interior. Or the fact that they have the car as RWD, with 300 and 400+ hp options respectfully. The car looks like a muscle car, the cars engine performance is of a muscle car, the interior is of the likeness of a muscle car, and fans of the muscle car are buying this car. Magazines, forums and news are all comparing the 3 muscle cars again (Mustang, Camaro and Challenger).

The difference this time around? Reliability, sophistication and handling is actually a part of this muscle car.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck......

If the car steals sales from other auto manufacturers, including Honda, good for GM. Though GM isn't marketing this car against an Accord Coupe.

But, for the record, I will eat crow the day I see GM put an Accord vs. Camaro commercial, ad, reliability comparison or any other car comparison that we have discussed (Altima, Accord).

Quote:
Originally Posted by OUR72GTO View Post
Well there sure has been a lot of discussion for a subject that the 2nd post dismissed!
Actually, it wasn't dismissed. Many others have agreed with me as well. Are you just doing some "selective" reading, or only reading what appeals to you? Are you the same guy who keeps sending me Private Messages that don't make any sense? If so, please stop.
__________________
Beau Tie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 06:02 AM   #97
Angrybird 12
Retired, Cancer Survivor
 
Angrybird 12's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 CAMARO 1LT, 08 Vue, 96 S-10 LS
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: J. C. Tennessee
Posts: 16,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beau Tie View Post
Well, your opinion is duly noted

BTW, I don't know who "Scott" is, as I have not been here very long (look at my registration date), nor do I care who Scott is. Nobody else makes my opinions for me or for you.

Fact remains, Chevrolet (GM) IS making this car out to be a "muscle car", no matter what GM or anyone else might convey to you. They intentionally came out with a more reliable, more sophisticated Camaro this generation. However, that doesn't change the fact they they gave it a muscle car "retro" design from the original 69 Camaro. It doesn't change the fact that they gave it a retro, muscle car interior. Or the fact that they have the car as RWD, with 300 and 400+ hp options respectfully. The car looks like a muscle car, the cars engine performance is of a muscle car, the interior is of the likeness of a muscle car, and fans of the muscle car are buying this car. Magazines, forums and news are all comparing the 3 muscle cars again (Mustang, Camaro and Challenger).

The difference this time around? Reliability, sophistication and handling is actually a part of this muscle car.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck......

If the car steals sales from other auto manufacturers, including Honda, good for GM. Though GM isn't marketing this car against an Accord Coupe.

But, for the record, I will eat crow the day I see GM put an Accord vs. Camaro commercial, ad, reliability comparison or any other car comparison that we have discussed (Altima, Accord).



Actually, it wasn't dismissed. Many others have agreed with me as well. Are you just doing some "selective" reading, or only reading what appeals to you? Are you the same guy who keeps sending me Private Messages that don't make any sense? If so, please stop.
Most of what you say I agree, but you really need to find out who Scott is... You will then respect what his opinion is.

Yes Camaro is designed to be a Modern day Muscle Car with retro styling cues.
The defininion of Muscle Car in my opinion has changed. The origonal Muscle cars were the Chevelles, GTO's, 442s, Torinos, Roadrunners etc, all mid sized cars for their time, with large engines made for drag racing. The Camaro, Mustang, Barracuda, etc were an alternative to the Sports Car. A sporty car for a young Single person or a small family, Husband, Wife and maybe one or two small children... Good handling cars, with plenty of power to do what it was designed for. Now specialty car dealerships took the Camaro and made it into a drag car also. and Chevy helped by supplying the COPO models. But make no mistake the Camaro was first designed to just be a good handling 4 seat sporty car. Market demand later made it into a Muscle car.

I believe that a Muscle car today incorporates not only the aspects of a high powered engine, but a sophisticated chassis. Not only will it go fast it will handle well. The New Camaro is Both a Sporty car and a Muscle Car. The V6 is the sporty model, easily being more powerful and better handling than most (but definately not all) the first through 4th gen Camaros. The SS is the Muscel Car High power and handling to match.

So comparing with an Accord or Altima, is up to the individual looking for a car that will perfom in the way they want. people have different wants and needs. I knew a guy the Compared a Honda Prelude to a Monte Carlo back in the 90's. and he bought the Honda, and his reason was the Honda handled better... I said why didn't you compare the Prelude to the Camaro, they are in the same market segment, not the Monte Carlo... he just wouldn't answer me... He wanted an excuse to buy the Honda so he compared it to an American car that he knew wouldn't measure up to the aspects he was wanting... People and magazines will do that sometimes to make the car they want to win look better....

For all Newbies....Again I urge you to find out more about Scott. He is a person that has been in on the development of the Camaro from day one... and has been the "Go To Guy" for any questions. Many have been answered already if you want to search a little.
__________________
Cancer's a bitch! Enjoy life while you can! LIVE, LOVE, DRIVE...CAMARO!

Previous Camaros: 1974, 1979 and 2010.
Angrybird 12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 06:53 AM   #98
Beau Tie
 
Beau Tie's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Cobalt, 2007 Camry
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 145
Send a message via AIM to Beau Tie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyman 08 View Post
Most of what you say I agree, but you really need to find out who Scott is... You will then respect what his opinion is.

Yes Camaro is designed to be a Modern day Muscle Car with retro styling cues.
The defininion of Muscle Car in my opinion has changed. The origonal Muscle cars were the Chevelles, GTO's, 442s, Torinos, Roadrunners etc, all mid sized cars for their time, with large engines made for drag racing. The Camaro, Mustang, Barracuda, etc were an alternative to the Sports Car. A sporty car for a young Single person or a small family, Husband, Wife and maybe one or two small children... Good handling cars, with plenty of power to do what it was designed for. Now specialty car dealerships took the Camaro and made it into a drag car also. and Chevy helped by supplying the COPO models. But make no mistake the Camaro was first designed to just be a good handling 4 seat sporty car. Market demand later made it into a Muscle car.

I believe that a Muscle car today incorporates not only the aspects of a high powered engine, but a sophisticated chassis. Not only will it go fast it will handle well. The New Camaro is Both a Sporty car and a Muscle Car. The V6 is the sporty model, easily being more powerful and better handling than most (but definately not all) the first through 4th gen Camaros. The SS is the Muscel Car High power and handling to match.

So comparing with an Accord or Altima, is up to the individual looking for a car that will perfom in the way they want. people have different wants and needs. I knew a guy the Compared a Honda Prelude to a Monte Carlo back in the 90's. and he bought the Honda, and his reason was the Honda handled better... I said why didn't you compare the Prelude to the Camaro, they are in the same market segment, not the Monte Carlo... he just wouldn't answer me... He wanted an excuse to buy the Honda so he compared it to an American car that he knew wouldn't measure up to the aspects he was wanting... People and magazines will do that sometimes to make the car they want to win look better....

For all Newbies....Again I urge you to find out more about Scott. He is a person that has been in on the development of the Camaro from day one... and has been the "Go To Guy" for any questions. Many have been answered already if you want to search a little.
Thanks for your insight, and thank you for taking the time to respond. As for "Scott", I really wouldn't care if Scott was "Bob Lutz". It still has no bearing on my opinion, feelings, or thoughts on the competitive nature of the 5th generation Camaro. No doubt that "Scott's" knowledge of the Camaro exceeds my knowledge a billion to one. If "Scott" is on the Camaro team, well then, job well done on the new Camaro. One of the best cars to come out of GM in the most recent years (next to the CTS, Malibu, Enclave, C6, and now a host of others).

For the record, I am new to this particular forum (because I am getting a new Camaro), but I am not a "newb" to cars, nor the Camaro specifically. So I don't have any "questions" or "answers" that I need to "search" for.

I can't wait or the Camaro vs. Accord vs. Altima commercials!





__________________
Beau Tie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 07:52 AM   #99
SS4EVER
Camaro Convert...
 
Drives: 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Metro Detroit, Mi
Posts: 595
I'm glad someone posted this....

Here's what you guys need to be discussing right here....

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9130
__________________
4 life!
Currently Driving: 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged
SS4EVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2008, 08:00 AM   #100
rayhawk

 
rayhawk's Avatar
 
Drives: Trailblazer SS
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by OUR72GTO View Post
It would be a lot better if people who quote BASE prices actually knew what comes in a Honda. You need to 2LT, then "RS" the Camaro at minimum and add a sunroof and others to get close to the V6 standard equipment on the 09 Accord COUPE. The coupe does not share one body panel with the sedan. Price on paper is not the only property a sophisticated buyer is looking for. You still will not get dual zone A/C , Home link, keyless remote windows and more on the Chevy. And the Honda will get you 10% better mileage. ADDS UP AT 4.00 A GALLON.

It appears those who at the ripe old age of 36 who are so closed minded that
their "EXPERT" view is the only right one are not one of the wiser more educated examples of "current" consumer that GM is aiming this car at.

My son has a "Bow TIE " tattooed on his forearm, but his mind is open enough to realize that if CHEVOLET does not attract current and future buyers with this car it WILL go the same way the 05 GTO went and then GM in less than a decade will go the same way as Chrysler. (BTW his 24 Y/O lady says she thinks the 2010 looks " too for old guys" compared to the Honda.

Wait till the YOU TUBE reports come in with some 25 year old who knows how to launch his FWD V6 and speed shifting the close ratio leaves some old 45 year old churning smoke with his BB Camaro (extra cost shifter) who could not hook up.

Have a nice day!

The auto honda does indeed get slightly better mileage(due to cylinder shutoff tech-wonder where they copied that idea from), but the manual car is rated at 17/25 mpg. Not that this is a huge difference but it is definitely worse than the manual camaro. I think it is geared much more agressively than the V6 camaro to improve acceleration but they gave up something in the economy department to do it.

In my opinion, most guys that bought an accord coupe really wanted a mustang, but thought it was too cheap, or a bmw but thought it was too expensive. Honda's are the most plainly styled boring cars I have ever seen. I think the camaro will be very attractive to that crowd, as it is closer to the BMW than the mustang, and a lot less girly than the Honda. No offense to Honda guys, it is just my opinion.

Oh, and your GTO comment is not really true, GM brought a car at the end of the life cycle from Australia to have something to sell against the mustang GT, I don't think that was ever expected to sell like a camaro with low end and high end models, and they did that with minimal investment. The camaro was not built as a second thought, and is made to compete with many coupes available.
__________________
Hooters, hooters, yum yum yum, hooters, hooters on a girl thats dumb.
-Al Bundy

07 2WD Trailblazer SS, LS1 E-fans, 4" FWI, pcmforless tune
72 VW Beetle, 2275cc, Dual 44 IDF's
rayhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Detroit News panel wants GM to build Camaro concept Tran 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 12 03-15-2009 04:38 PM
AW: New Camaro a one trick pony? Scotsman 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 16 09-04-2008 09:07 PM
NEW!! Voice Your MARKETING Suggestions/Input for Focus Group on 2010 Camaro. Mr. Wyndham 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 114 05-08-2008 09:24 PM
Cheryl Pilcher (Fbodmother) Questions & Answers camaro5 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 2 04-19-2008 05:07 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.