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Old 10-28-2008, 12:28 PM   #43
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um forgive me, but isn't that saying your job sucks so bad you spend all your time here? Just saying....
Correction - I'm a student coming out of grad school going into a job that's going to suck so bad.
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:52 PM   #44
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since u already own a vette, I would recommend you to go for the accord as a DD for reliability reason !!
Ouch, wheres the for camaros big brother? I'm hurt.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:55 PM   #45
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I think it is a fair comparo as well. The camaro is going to need to compete with quite a few FWD applications that are in the same performance bracket as the V6 will be in.

Altima Coupe
Accord Coupe
Civic Si (mayyybe its a stretch but the perfrmance is there)
Challenger
Mustang
G6 GXP
Genesis Coupe
Maxima (i know its 4 door but it doesn't come in coupe version like altima civic G6)

Most people are only concered about straigh line performance anyway. It is pretty rare that anyone ever takes a car to its lateral breaking point or auto crosses. (At least in this V6 segment we are observing) So handling will be not a huge concern for potential buyers.

The V6 will fair ok with these other cars but each has its pluses and minuses against each other. I think the quickest to 60 and 1/4 will be the new accord at 5.6 / 14.0 with the camaro right behind it in the 1/4.

FWD gets the nod in bad weather but it harder to control with tq and just less fun. Camaro will fair well in MSRP to most as well but not get the best MPG of the bunch. I think it will steal a lot of sales as well once they are all over the street and more of the regular world sees them. We are the few that are following a car before its release. The average joe/jane doesn't even know there is a camaro coming out...yet
And many people who buy those cars don't know or care which wheel drive it is..... front, rear, whatever. Is the car cool? Is is built well? Does it have modern features and design? Does it ride and handle well (again, forgetting which wheel drive it is because most people don't give a hoot)


There are two distinct, sepparate people who buy Camaros and Mustangs and those who buy the competition: Those who typically buy Camaros and Mustangs are dedicated to domestics and won't even bother shopping at a Honda or Nissan dealer: this group, while still vocally strong, is shrinking by the second.

The other group is the folks who were either raised on Japanese engineered cars (you really can't say import anymore when some of them contain more American parts and labor than cars made by Ford or GM) or left American cars after a really bad experience (which is my case).

In order for GM to just get back to profitability, forget market share, just profitability, they must make the Camaro work financially. Which means the V6 must be appealing to people who would never consider an American car. It does that. It really does. The 6 speed transmissions, the DOHC VVT DI engine (import snobs love accronyms even though most have no clue what they do), attention to detail, and the quality of the whole package is what will draw those people in.

In other words, they care less about who made it than if it's made right.
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Old 10-28-2008, 04:04 PM   #46
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My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
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Old 10-28-2008, 04:48 PM   #47
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Good post fastball. I think people underestimate the amount of young people who still like american cars. Yea, a lot seem to think they all suck but there's a good amount of us that would buy American if given the chance. My first car was a 1990 Honda Accord. With barely 100k miles on it, it really started acting up (transmission, distributor, other stuff). That left a bad taste in my mouth so it really goes both ways. My dad's Yukon XL just hit 250k miles the other day.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:13 PM   #48
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Good post fastball. I think people underestimate the amount of young people who still like american cars. Yea, a lot seem to think they all suck but there's a good amount of us that would buy American if given the chance. My first car was a 1990 Honda Accord. With barely 100k miles on it, it really started acting up (transmission, distributor, other stuff). That left a bad taste in my mouth so it really goes both ways. My dad's Yukon XL just hit 250k miles the other day.
Don't say that!!! My 93 Accord is at 96,000 miles!!! I need to sell this thing before everything goes wrong! :upset:
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:33 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Mblock66 View Post
I think it is a fair comparo as well. The camaro is going to need to compete with quite a few FWD applications that are in the same performance bracket as the V6 will be in.

Altima Coupe
Accord Coupe
Civic Si (mayyybe its a stretch but the perfrmance is there)
Challenger
Mustang
G6 GXP
Genesis Coupe
Maxima (i know its 4 door but it doesn't come in coupe version like altima civic G6)

Most people are only concered about straight line performance anyway. It is pretty rare that anyone ever takes a car to its lateral breaking point or auto crosses. (At least in this V6 segment we are observing) So handling will be not a huge concern for potential buyers.

The V6 will fair ok with these other cars but each has its pluses and minuses against each other. I think the quickest to 60 and 1/4 will be the new accord at 5.6 / 14.0 with the camaro right behind it in the 1/4.

FWD gets the nod in bad weather but it harder to control with tq and just less fun. Camaro will fair well in MSRP to most as well but not get the best MPG of the bunch. I think it will steal a lot of sales as well once they are all over the street and more of the regular world sees them. We are the few that are following a car before its release. The average joe/jane doesn't even know there is a camaro coming out...yet
I agree with Mblock on this. Mblock isn't saying at all that any of these cars are better than the Camaro V6, or will be as fun to drive, or even look anywhere as sexy... , but and I'll point out the cars that I know stock may be a problem for the V6 Camaro, it's going to be the Altima V6, Accord V6, and the new Nissan Maxima V6, not to mention such cars such as the Cobalt SS, and 09 Subaru WRX even though these cars aren't really anywhere in the same segment as the Camaro V6 of course.

The Camaro V6 will also obliterate the Challenger V6 and current gen Mustang V6, which has already been mentioned. And the average person that buys an Accord V6, or a Maxima isn't going to be buying one for the purpose of racing people, of course not, and I don't think anyone is saying that.

HOWEVER... the point is that there are other stock V6 and other cars out there that may be just as quick if not quicker than the Camaro V6, no one is saying that that's important, but just so people are aware the Camaro V6 while quick it is for its class, isn't going to necessarily be the best performing V6 sporty car out there...
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:41 PM   #50
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Comparing the 6 speed manual Accord Coupe to a Camaro is a very legitimate comparison, and it better be because GM needs the Camaro V6 to pull in people who might otherwise look at an Accord coupe, Nissan Altima V6 coupe, and perhaps a Toyota Solara V6 coupe.

For Camaro to succeed, the V6 must hold its own against those others, even the BMW 1 series. You can no longer look at just the Mustang and Challenger as the only competition for Camaro. It's a global automotive market, and Camaro must compete and succeed if we all want to see it make it past this first run of the 5th generation.

Seriously, what other coupe does GM offer with a manual transmission, DOHC V6, and under 30k? Camaro is it.

Forget the old days when it was only the Mustang. In fact, outside of the SS, I don't think it is fair to limit Camaro's scope to just the same old competition.

I totally agree that Honda ACCORD coupe (a totally different car from the sedan) is a serious competitor. GM has a whole new demographic who have never driven a North American sports coupe.

My rear wheel drive car is a 72 GTO. I have had 3 Vettes (66 76 78 all sticks) We also have a Honda coupe stick. The interior /exterior measurements with 2010 Camaro are within fragments of an inch (mm's up HERE in the Great White North ). We also know something about driving both RWD and FWD in bad weather. The TORQUE steer is scary on the Honda with V6 stick, (worse than my STS ) and is distracting when you have another car in the losing lane. Too much power in a FWD in the snow is not as much fun as a RWD imo.

There are two generations of drivers out there who have NEVER driven a RWD if they don't own a Vette. Look out!

The good news is after they buy a 2010 ...decide they don't know how to drive it ........there will be lots of low miles Camaro's at the Rice Dealers.

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Old 10-29-2008, 12:16 AM   #51
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I absolutely hate how FWD cars handle. Even more so in bad weather. My camaro is way better in snow then my gf's Corolla. Both with snow tires. I would never consider owning one, ever. Too much power in FWD is terrible also. After experiencing torque steer for the first time I couldn't understand why anyone would like this. This severely limits my choices as japanese manufacturers are in love with FWD. There is a reason why best cars in the world are RWD. You don't see any BMWs that are FWD.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:51 AM   #52
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The Challenger is auto only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-29-2008, 01:16 AM   #53
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The Challenger is auto only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only the 2008my. The 6 speed manual is a $2000 option (canadian) probalby about 1200 USD.
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:55 AM   #54
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The Accord is NOT a competitor for the Camaro. Granted, every car is aiming for a slice of the pie, and is technically a competitor (heck, even the Camaro and Corvette will compete against each other for sales now).

But sorry folks, the Accord is NOT a direct competitor. Nor is the Camry/Solara. Nor is the Mazda 6. Nor is the Nissan Altima or Maxima. Nor is the Civic, Corolla, or any other front wheel drive family vehicle. They are NOT direct competitors, and I they shouldn't be compared at all (except for the import fanatics that are holding onto some hope).
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:25 AM   #55
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Umm......... all y'all serious

The only V6 coupe that will be able to smoke or be on its ass is the G37X coupe

AWD 6speed auto

Hands down..........
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:33 AM   #56
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Umm......... all y'all serious

The only V6 coupe that will be able to smoke or be on its ass is the G37X coupe

AWD 6speed auto

Hands down..........
How do you figure? If the Accord Coupe is 5.6 to 60 and I think the Altima Coupe is 5.8. And how anyone could think these aren't competition for the camaro are smoking something. They are all performance V6 coupes in the same price range PERIOD.

Yes one is RWD and one FWD but that doesn't limit them from being each other competition. You are very close minded if you really think the only competition for this V6 Camaro is the V6 mustang and challenger. Those cars make up such a small small market of V6 coupe buyers out there.
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