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Old 10-31-2008, 11:07 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Beau Tie View Post
Thanks for your insight, and thank you for taking the time to respond. As for "Scott", I really wouldn't care if Scott was "Bob Lutz". It still has no bearing on my opinion, feelings, or thoughts on the competitive nature of the 5th generation Camaro. No doubt that "Scott's" knowledge of the Camaro exceeds my knowledge a billion to one. If "Scott" is on the Camaro team, well then, job well done on the new Camaro. One of the best cars to come out of GM in the most recent years (next to the CTS, Malibu, Enclave, C6, and now a host of others).

For the record, I am new to this particular forum (because I am getting a new Camaro), but I am not a "newb" to cars, nor the Camaro specifically. So I don't have any "questions" or "answers" that I need to "search" for.
But that is the thing, it is simply YOUR opinion that you don't think they are market competition. Thats all fine and good that you "like" cars. I do too and know just as much about the availability of what is out there etc etc etc. Being a car freak doesn't mean that you know "for a fact" what is or isn't.

They wouldn't make a high performance enthusiest Altima 3.5 R if it wasn't to compete with the other performance 6's on the market. And the whole import can't compete against domestic b/c they aren't muslce cars is hogwash. You are being WAY too closed minded. If you understood how GM was marketing this car as someone said in a previous post, you would see why these other V6's have targets on them in the eyes of the company BUILDING THE CAR.... GM.

They have stated already they do not even want to be compared to the mustang anymore as they will not try to compete with them on price and the camaro is a more upscale refined machine now etc.....(even though they will never NOT be compared to each other)

So they are looking to broaden the base upon which the camaro is compared. You are letting history get in the way and that is only letting you see the Challenger and the Mustang. The V6 Camaro other then being RWD (which I think the H. Genesis will be also) it is right there with the other performance V6 versions of this market.

You also have to remember that you are a biased "educated" enthusiest. The average joe that wants to get a new car but wants a peppy V6 thats "cool" will look at the accord coupe, altima, genesis, mustang, chally, camaro, etc. Price is just one point of comparison these vehicles are just too similar in many areas and it would be close minded to not see that they are direct competition for each other. And if the camaro steals sales from these other applications doesn't that inherently make it competition lol.
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Old 10-31-2008, 11:22 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Mblock66 View Post
But that is the thing, it is simply YOUR opinion that you don't think they are market competition. Thats all fine and good that you "like" cars. I do too and know just as much about the availability of what is out there etc etc etc. Being a car freak doesn't mean that you know "for a fact" what is or isn't.

They wouldn't make a high performance enthusiest Altima 3.5 R if it wasn't to compete with the other performance 6's on the market. And the whole import can't compete against domestic b/c they aren't muslce cars is hogwash. You are being WAY too closed minded. If you understood how GM was marketing this car as someone said in a previous post, you would see why these other V6's have targets on them in the eyes of the company BUILDING THE CAR.... GM.

They have stated already they do not even want to be compared to the mustang anymore as they will not try to compete with them on price and the camaro is a more upscale refined machine now etc.....(even though they will never NOT be compared to each other)

So they are looking to broaden the base upon which the camaro is compared. You are letting history get in the way and that is only letting you see the Challenger and the Mustang. The V6 Camaro other then being RWD (which I think the H. Genesis will be also) it is right there with the other performance V6 versions of this market.

You also have to remember that you are a biased "educated" enthusiest. The average joe that wants to get a new car but wants a peppy V6 thats "cool" will look at the accord coupe, altima, genesis, mustang, chally, camaro, etc. Price is just one point of comparison these vehicles are just too similar in many areas and it would be close minded to not see that they are direct competition for each other. And if the camaro steals sales from these other applications doesn't that inherently make it competition lol.
Well, YOUR opinion is noted as well, and thanks for sharing it. We are all entitled to our opinions. I never stated it was a FACT, so no need for you to spin the topic. My opinion (as well as others that have posted here) differs with your opinion (and others that have posted here). Nothing wrong with that.

(BTW, I agree that the Genesis Coupe will be a competitor).
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Old 10-31-2008, 11:28 AM   #105
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I have an opinion yes, but I also listen to the company that is marketing the car. And their opinion is fact. They don't just randomly build a car and throw it out there. It is designed with a specific target market to compete in and GM has shown where they have decided to compete. So that kinda matters more then what you and I and everyone else "thinks". Whether you want to beleive it or not, they are competition in GMs eyes. Period
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Old 10-31-2008, 11:48 AM   #106
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fwiw, this is GM's (Chevy's) slogan/catchphrase for the new Camaro:

"A 21st century sports car"

And they pay careful attention to not call THIS model a muscle car in anything they publish, but they do refer to its muscle-car roots...
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Old 10-31-2008, 12:14 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mblock66 View Post
I have an opinion yes, but I also listen to the company that is marketing the car. And their opinion is fact. They don't just randomly build a car and throw it out there. It is designed with a specific target market to compete in and GM has shown where they have decided to compete. So that kinda matters more then what you and I and everyone else "thinks". Whether you want to beleive it or not, they are competition in GMs eyes. Period
Good for you (and your opinion), and good for GM, I and others disagree. Please accept that and move on.
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Old 10-31-2008, 12:40 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beau Tie View Post
Good for you (and your opinion), and good for GM, I and others disagree. Please accept that and move on. Also, this confuses me:

"And their opinion is fact." How is that possible? How can an opinion be fact?

http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro/thel...ro_since_1967/

More proof that Chevrolet is aligning this car with their muscle car era:





HTH

mblock used the wrong word. they arent giving you opinions they are giving you facts....

regarding the Musclecar heritage of the camaro. They are not marketing it as a Musclecar. Have you seen an ad or heard a blurb about it? Motortrend called it the american g37.....they liked the g37 because it handled very well. and they liked the v6 camaro because it handled very well. They put that refinment into the car because they are not marketing it as a fast car in a straight line. its a fast car on every line. Thus they have the slogan that is its a 21st century sports car....they aren't marketing it as a 21st century muscle car.

as pertaining to this thread a g37 will destroy a honda accord and thay is the v6 camaro is a better choice, sure they in the same price range but the camaro is a better buy.


also great job introducing yourself to the site. As far as scott Goes. Scott Settlemire does know more about the camaro then you do because he is an insider. dont try to belittle his information that he gives to the forum because it only shows how much more you have to learn.
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Old 10-31-2008, 12:48 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headpunter View Post
mblock used the wrong word. they arent giving you opinions they are giving you facts
I know what GM is giving me. I know what every manufacturer is giving me in marketing (I minored in marketing). Just like I know that Ford says they have the most reliable trucks. Just because they say they do doesn't mean they do.

Quote:
regarding the Musclecar heritage of the camaro. They are not marketing it as a Musclecar. Have you seen an ad or heard a blurb about it?
No, have you?

Quote:
Motortrend called it the american g37.....they liked the g37 because it handled very well. and they liked the v6 camaro because it handled very well. They put that refinment into the car because they are not marketing it as a fast car in a straight line. its a fast car on every line. Thus they have the slogan that is its a 21st century sports car....they aren't marketing it as a 21st century muscle car.
I never questioned the RWD G37 sports car. I questioned the FWD econobox, Accords.

Quote:
also great job introducing yourself to the site.
Thanks. Nice to meet ya.

Quote:
As far as scott Goes. Scott Settlemire does know more about the camaro then you do because he is an insider.
Sweet! I already stated, if you read above, that this Scott probably knows more about the Camaro than I do, 1 billion to 1.

Quote:
dont try to belittle his information that he gives to the forum because it only shows how much more you have to learn.
When I did I belittle him? I have never met him, spoke to him, replied to posts of his, or questioned him.

Do you have some sort of issue?
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Old 10-31-2008, 01:13 PM   #110
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I have an issue.

This goes for everyone.

Get this thread back on topic or I'll intervene. Be respectful to everyone here. Everyone

State your opinions and respect those of others. DO NOT TROLL HERE. We don't tolerate it. No one is in danger of any punitive action.... Yet.

And furthermore, as Tag has already said, one of the foundations as to why this site has grown so much is the GM employees/insiders that take time out of their busy days to share with us. We want that to continue and will not allow them to be insulted, belittled, or offended. The same thing we do for all our members.

Like I said state your opinion and respect eachother's

Please don't push it.
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Old 10-31-2008, 01:16 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by gtahvit View Post
I have an issue.

This goes for everyone.

Get this thread back on topic or I'll intervene. Be respectful to everyone here. Everyone

State your opinions and respect those of others. DO NOT TROLL HERE. We don't tolerate it. No one is in danger of any punitive action.... Yet.

And furthermore, as Tag has already said, one of the foundations as to why this site has grown so much is the GM employees/insiders that take time out of their busy days to share with us. We want that to continue and will not allow them to be insulted, belittled, or offended. The same thing we do for all our members.

Like I said state your opinion and respect eachother's

Please don't push it.
Thank you! And well stated.
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Old 10-31-2008, 01:37 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Beau Tie View Post
Good for you (and your opinion), and good for GM, I and others disagree. Please accept that and move on.

Good for me?... I guess you don't get it. Being that you are a marketing minor you should understand market segments, product placement, and target consumer. I am a financial analyst professional for a fortune 500 (as long as we are throwing around "expertise") with a BS in finance and economics. (but honestly I don't think that means much in this argument)

You certainly are allowed to think what the camaro is and what its competition is for YOU, but the producer sets all of the above and places its product. Whether it is successful or not is determined by the market. Did GM do a good job in placing its product against the likes of accord, genesis, altima, and so on......we will see. But that IS where they are attempting to compete which inherently makes those product direct and I will repeat, direct sales competition.

So sure you and others are allowed to compare whatever cars you want (or not want) to the camaro, that is totally fine. No issues with that. But the business model IS and WILL be attempting to steal performance V6 market share from the accord, altima........

Whether we think it is or not based on performance or price or whatever is mearly a formality.
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Old 10-31-2008, 01:42 PM   #113
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So sure you and others are allowed to compare whatever cars you want (or not want) to the camaro, that is totally fine. No issues with that.
At least we can agree on something.

Back on topic (as requested), I still don't feel that the Accord stands a chance against the Camaro in a full out head to head. Paper is one thing, driving experience and mechanics is another. While none of us (most I should say) have no experience driving a new Camaro, I am confident that the Camaro driving experience will be night and day better than the Accord could offer. This is based on everything from engine torque performance, suspension setup, RWD vs. FWD cornering, straightline and cone performance.

The Camaro delivers a substantially better car for less money in regards to being a "drivers" car. The Camaro IS a sports car, the Accord is not.
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Old 11-01-2008, 12:18 AM   #114
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I'm glad someone posted this....

Here's what you guys need to be discussing right here....

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9130
Gee, funny how the accord wasn't mentioned in that comparison, being such a big competitor and all

The Genesis, I would most definitely agree with you on. The whole automotive industry will be competing with both the coupe and sedan this year

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Old 11-01-2008, 01:56 PM   #115
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But would you agree that it would be wise for Chevy to market the V6 Camaro towards the people who normally buy Accord V6s, and Altima V6s, etc (in addition to the red, white, and blue-blooded people you mentioned later on)?

In my opinion, they'd be really ignoring a fine chunk of potential buyers if they didn't.
I suppose, but one look at the Camaro and you can tell it's a world of difference from any accord or camry etc.. When most people think accord or camry their thoughts do not immediately rush to the classic muscle cars of yore or even the modern/retro bumblebee of today. Instead they think of a practical car that is uber reliable. When you say Camaro to me I think of my dad's 68 SS or the monster LS1's I see at the drag strip. It's a very different feeling.
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Old 11-01-2008, 03:39 PM   #116
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Yes but that is you. Turn it this way.

Some random 18 year old girl that wants a new cool car from daddy! She wants it to be sporty but knows nothing or cares nothing about engines or 0-60 or FWD or RWD.

They will look at the altima, mustang, accord, solara, camaro, etc. I promise that. I have seen way too many high school girls driving around in V6 mustangs and camaros in my day. Yet I bet they have no idea what a camaro is as far as muscle car history and such. We are all in the minority here most buyer aren't NEAR as informed as we are.
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Old 11-01-2008, 04:03 PM   #117
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Yes but that is you. Turn it this way.

Some random 18 year old girl that wants a new cool car from daddy! She wants it to be sporty but knows nothing or cares nothing about engines or 0-60 or FWD or RWD.

They will look at the altima, mustang, accord, solara, camaro, etc. I promise that. I have seen way too many high school girls driving around in V6 mustangs and camaros in my day. Yet I bet they have no idea what a camaro is as far as muscle car history and such. We are all in the minority here most buyer aren't NEAR as informed as we are.
Very true - in most cases like this the luck of the draw mostly depends on what dealership brands are closest to them. Very few buyers have an actual car in mind when they go shopping (like we do). They just have a type of image they want and the car salesmen convince them of what car will fit that.

Also talked w/ my 17 year old cousin this morning who informed me he wants a new camaro bad. I asked him about a few other cars, one of which was the accord, and he said that "the accord is an old japanese man's car". This combined with how many members we have on this board under 18, the camaro will do just fine with the younger generations.
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Old 11-01-2008, 04:03 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Mblock66 View Post
Yes but that is you. Turn it this way.

Some random 18 year old girl that wants a new cool car from daddy! She wants it to be sporty but knows nothing or cares nothing about engines or 0-60 or FWD or RWD.

They will look at the altima, mustang, accord, solara, camaro, etc. I promise that. I have seen way too many high school girls driving around in V6 mustangs and camaros in my day. Yet I bet they have no idea what a camaro is as far as muscle car history and such. We are all in the minority here most buyer aren't NEAR as informed as we are.
Exactly! Camaro sales aren't going to thrive alone on enthusiasts buying them alone! And even though a large majority of the pre-orders were actually 2SS's when GM starts loading them off at the lots you can bet there's going to be more LT's and LS's sitting on the lots...

GM knows that they need not only enthusiasts, but more importantly a broader customer base which the success of the Camaro depends on! So if GM can get anyone to buy the Camaro they don't care who buys them, just as long as it sells, and get ready to start seeing a lot of chicks rolling around in Camaro V6's & some V8's....

And other people that you normally would figure to buy a Camaro...
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Old 11-01-2008, 04:21 PM   #119
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Yes but that is you. Turn it this way.

Some random 18 year old girl that wants a new cool car from daddy! She wants it to be sporty but knows nothing or cares nothing about engines or 0-60 or FWD or RWD.

They will look at the altima, mustang, accord, solara, camaro, etc. I promise that. I have seen way too many high school girls driving around in V6 mustangs and camaros in my day. Yet I bet they have no idea what a camaro is as far as muscle car history and such. We are all in the minority here most buyer aren't NEAR as informed as we are.
Well if they don't care about RWD vs FWD I doubt they will care if the Accord is a .2 seconds quicker from 0 to 60 either. I know that for my wife it's all about how the car looks. Yup, she loves how the Camaro looks.
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