Brake upgrade

[96CAMaro]

I know the Camaro SS already has 4 piston Brembo brakes that will give us plenty of good breaking, but I was wondering what the next brake upgrade would be. Does anyone have any thoughs on this topic?

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by 96CAMaro

I know the Camaro SS already has 4 piston Brembo brakes that will give us plenty of good breaking, but I was wondering what the next brake upgrade would be. Does anyone have any thoughs on this topic?

Pads and rotors.


If you need the bling, I'm sure Stoptech, Brembo, Alcoa, AP Racing, and so on will adapt their 6-8 piston calipers as well.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by 96CAMaro

I know the Camaro SS already has 4 piston Brembo brakes that will give us plenty of good breaking, but I was wondering what the next brake upgrade would be. Does anyone have any thoughs on this topic?

Depends on what you need to do. The factory Brembos should hold up to anything you could ever imagine to throw at them on the street and also handle any sort of track Day or HPDE you could ever do. If you wanted to truly race the car (full out caged road racer) then I'm sure stoptech, et al., will come up with a set of 6 or 8 piston brakes for it.

However as i said, you would never ever need these kind of upgrades for the street, complete waste of money better spent on a supercharger or something. Get some slotted rotors if you really need, Brembo might make a better compound pad as well but probably not. The standard Brembo stuff dissipates heat well and thats what is most important is stopping repeatedly, brake fade.

[LSxJunkie]

Best upgrade? Tires.


If you can slam on your brakes at 80 and not activate your ABS, then you go on to more braking power.

[Dom]

SS won't need a brake upgrade, the V6 might depending on driving style. I'm curious as to how easy a swap it would be to upgrade to the Brembos. Might be cheaper to go past Brembos with something aftermarket too.

[baileyrx]

drilled &/or slotted rotors will be my 1st brake upgrade

the space help the gases escape & let the pad stay in contact with the metal, also cools the rotor alittle faster

help delay/prevent brake fade

(i do road courses(hsde))

[Dom]

Originally Posted by baileyrx

drilled &/or slotted rotors will be my 1st brake upgrade

the space help the gases escape & let the pad stay in contact with the metal, also cools the rotor alittle faster

hely delay/prevent brake fade

That's not true anymore. Modern pads don't emit gas.

[baileyrx]

Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors are for drivers who want to improve the looks and performance of their vehicle’s original braking system without having to change additional brake components. Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors provide excellent stopping power in everyday traffic, as well as more spirited, high performance street and highway driving.

Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors match the vehicle’s Original Equipment rotor’s dimensions and are fully compatible with its hubs, brake calipers and road wheels. Front and rear Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors are available to provide a matched appearance on all four corners of the vehicle and employ one-piece vented or solid rotors depending on the vehicle’s original equipment specifications.

Starting with select castings, Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors undergo the race-born practice of cross drilling to provide multiple paths to disperse built-up heat and gasses. The Brembo Sport rotor’s cross-drilled holes are bi-angle chamfered at the rotor’s outer surfaces to help reduce the cracking caused by repeated, high stress, high temperature brake applications. Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors are sold in axle pairs.

Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors are coated for corrosion resistance to help eliminate rust and to offer a bold, aggressive appearance to enhance the look of the vehicle’s road wheels.

Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors are designed to meet the challenges of high performance street driving while adding an authentic, race-ready look. NOTE: Light truck and SUV rotors with studs or bearings are uncoated.

Power Stop cross-drilled or slotted rotors both offer certain advantages depending on the user's vehicle, driving style and individual needs.

Both styles will provide cooler brake temperatures as a result of dissipating the gasses burning off the brake pads. This "de-gassing" or "out-gassing" will keep the pads in contact with the rotor resulting in less brake fade after repeated stops. The lower temperatures will also promote longer rotor and pad life under equal driving conditions. Improved "bite" on the brake pads will also enhance brake performance from each option. Both types of Power Stop rotors will promote improved wet weather braking as water is swept between the pad and rotor. Either cross-drilled or slotted rotors, combined with our Axxis Metal Master or 9-1-1 Extreme Performance brake pads, will out perform a stock brake system under normal and "spirited" street driving conditions.

BAER
Will slotting or cross-drilling my stock rotors improve my car's stopping performance?
DEFINITELY NOT! Cross-drilled or slotted rotors do produce a strong visual appeal behind a modern open wheel, and they do have a performance edge when pad outgassing occurs. Outgassing occurs at extreme temperatures when the bonding agents that hold the pad material together break down into a gas form. This gas creates a pneumatic barrier between the rotor and the pad, reducing friction. Cross-drilling or slotting creates a path for the outgassing that occurs during extreme braking conditions. However, these conditions can virtually never be reached on the street! Short of a complete system, performance brake pads, a proper Teflon lined braided stainless steel hose set and quality brake fluids are the only direct replacement upgrades that can be combined to deliver measurable stopping improvements in the context of direct replacement components on the OE brake system.

ss brake line & dot 4 brake fluid(higher boiling point)

[TAG UR IT]

I'm keeping the Brembos that are coming on my 2SS. No need to change them as I will not be road coursing it every day. I'll never drive it that hard (although I know I'd want to!...repeatedly!!!!!!)

[Dom]

Originally Posted by baileyrx

Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors are for drivers who want to improve the looks and performance of their vehicle’s original braking system without having to change additional brake components. Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors provide excellent stopping power in everyday traffic, as well as more spirited, high performance street and highway driving.

Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors match the vehicle’s Original Equipment rotor’s dimensions and are fully compatible with its hubs, brake calipers and road wheels. Front and rear Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors are available to provide a matched appearance on all four corners of the vehicle and employ one-piece vented or solid rotors depending on the vehicle’s original equipment specifications.

Starting with select castings, Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors undergo the race-born practice of cross drilling to provide multiple paths to disperse built-up heat and gasses. The Brembo Sport rotor’s cross-drilled holes are bi-angle chamfered at the rotor’s outer surfaces to help reduce the cracking caused by repeated, high stress, high temperature brake applications. Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors are sold in axle pairs.

Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors are coated for corrosion resistance to help eliminate rust and to offer a bold, aggressive appearance to enhance the look of the vehicle’s road wheels.

Brembo Sport drilled brake rotors are designed to meet the challenges of high performance street driving while adding an authentic, race-ready look. NOTE: Light truck and SUV rotors with studs or bearings are uncoated.

Power Stop cross-drilled or slotted rotors both offer certain advantages depending on the user's vehicle, driving style and individual needs.

Both styles will provide cooler brake temperatures as a result of dissipating the gasses burning off the brake pads. This "de-gassing" or "out-gassing" will keep the pads in contact with the rotor resulting in less brake fade after repeated stops. The lower temperatures will also promote longer rotor and pad life under equal driving conditions. Improved "bite" on the brake pads will also enhance brake performance from each option. Both types of Power Stop rotors will promote improved wet weather braking as water is swept between the pad and rotor. Either cross-drilled or slotted rotors, combined with our Axxis Metal Master or 9-1-1 Extreme Performance brake pads, will out perform a stock brake system under normal and "spirited" street driving conditions.

BAER
Will slotting or cross-drilling my stock rotors improve my car's stopping performance?
DEFINITELY NOT! Cross-drilled or slotted rotors do produce a strong visual appeal behind a modern open wheel, and they do have a performance edge when pad outgassing occurs. Outgassing occurs at extreme temperatures when the bonding agents that hold the pad material together break down into a gas form. This gas creates a pneumatic barrier between the rotor and the pad, reducing friction. Cross-drilling or slotting creates a path for the outgassing that occurs during extreme braking conditions. However, these conditions can virtually never be reached on the street! Short of a complete system, performance brake pads, a proper Teflon lined braided stainless steel hose set and quality brake fluids are the only direct replacement upgrades that can be combined to deliver measurable stopping improvements in the context of direct replacement components on the OE brake system.

ss brake line & dot 4 brake fluid(higher boiling point)

Thanks for the quotes from their marketing department. It's common knowledge blank rotor is by far the best. This topic has been beat to death.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showpo...91&postcount=2

[baileyrx]

all out racing & street/hsde cars have different needs, anyway that post is from over 3 years ago, maybe dated info

chevy seems to agree...

let the debate continue.....

[Dom]

You right. Brake pads have gotten worse since 3y ago.

Do some reading here.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477787

[gunslinger]

Originally Posted by baileyrx

all out racing & street/hsde cars have different needs, anyway that post is from over 3 years ago, maybe dated info

chevy seems to agree...

let the debate continue.....

Also, those are Carbon Ceramic rotors, a whole different science from the cast iron rotors found on 99.999999% of cars on the road.

GM also has a marketing department and there are many rich people out there who might just be pushed over the edge and buy a ZR1 because it has drilled rotors like a Ferrari/Porsche/Lamborghini.

EDIT: Also, the GMPP teaser video showed a brake change and the calipers seemed to be an upgrade over the standard SS Brambo's...Maybe it was a one-off piece from a ZO6, or maybe it will be a brake package offered through GMPP in the future.

[headpunter]

Originally Posted by gunslinger

Also, those are Carbon Ceramic rotors, a whole different science from the cast iron rotors found on 99.999999% of cars on the road.

GM also has a marketing department and there are many rich people out there who might just be pushed over the edge and buy a ZR1 because it has drilled rotors like a Ferrari/Porsche/Lamborghini.

EDIT: Also, the GMPP teaser video showed a brake change and the calipers seemed to be an upgrade over the standard SS Brambo's...Maybe it was a one-off piece from a ZO6, or maybe it will be a brake package offered through GMPP in the future.

those were brakes from a CTS-V and dont count on them being offered as an upgrade unless its a z/28 or zl-1

[Shifty 6]

[QUOTE=Dom;178027]Thanks for the quotes from their marketing department. It's common knowledge blank rotor is by far the best. This topic has been beat to death.

[QUOTE]

Let me start by saying, I'm no engineer, however I try to look at what other engineers are doing, and most of the time it makes sense to me. So my question is...If it is common knowledge, why is every performance rotor out there from cars to motorcycles at least drilled?

Since the first car was raced we look at what the racing industry is doing for their performance enhancements. They do not look at what is being done on street cars to improve the race car. For example, "mag" wheels are on street cars because the racing industry found it was better for performance only, they had NO interest in appearances. The fact that it looked batter was the least of their concerns. A few years ago, I wanted to make an upgrade to my motorcycle (I can't even recall what it was), and a good friend told me "not to waste my money...look at what the racing industry is doing". Let's fast forward to today, every race car I have seen, with the exception of carbon rotors and even some of them, have drilled rotors. Why have they not caught on to these "common knowledge" concepts that are so easily grasped? I understand racing is a different arena, however the debate was whether drilled or slotted was better, and it clearly is. That margin of superiority may be quite small, but, again that was not the question.

As a side note: it looked like in one of the videos from SEMA, the brake upgrade was for a v6 car and was in the form of a 6 piston caliper, with larger rotors. I agree with most everyone, the 4 piston Brembos should be more than up to the task so there would be minimal gain in going to a 6 piston caliper.

[Mr. Wyndham]

What about the LS/LT models?

What do you guys think about there being a GMPP brake upgrade 'kit' (like 4/6-piston calipers, etc)? On the SEMA 'Black' concept (which is a V6 car), it mentioned a Brembo Brake system....think they'll sell this standalone?

(on a side note, does Brembo sell upgrade kits? I visited the Baer and the Brembo site...but only Baer seemed to offer full kits.)

[baileyrx]

race car needs are entirely different...

race cars can and do use NEW rotors every race, they are not concerned about long term anything, they want it to last 300,400 500miles tops, they also have brake pads that are 1 inch thick, use different compounds and will only last the same amount of time. NASCAR rotors are designed to get red hot and cool quickly(solid) if they had sloted or holes the surface would cool at different rates and warp them after 10 laps. So they wouldn't work for them.

BUT,

Street cars on the other hand have totally different needs. It has been proven that slotted, drilled or both reduce fade on street car that see track time. A simple comparison again woule be the Corvette. The base vette will get fade after just a couple of hot laps, the Z51 equipped vette doesnt. Technologhy has changed in the past 3 -4 years in terms of a better understanding of manafacturing techniques, materials and when its appropiate to use certian products.
Also quality drilled rotors use superior metal & will come with chamfered holes to basically eliminate stress cracks.

Anyway not to beat a dead horse (no horse modicon ) but lets agree to disagree?

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by baileyrx

(no horse modicon )

it's there.

[baileyrx]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

it's there.

oh, thanks:bangdesk:

[gunslinger]

I believe that is a picture of the front of a ZR1 with Carbon Ceramic brakes.

EDIT: I HOPE GMPP offers a brake upgrade.

Although you may still be able to lock the tires up at 80 or 90 MPH with the stock brakes, the advantage of a larger rotor and pad surface area is extra heat absorption. True, they may not work as well at low temps(like any Road Race style pad) the number of times you can stop from 120+ MPH before the brakes fade is significantly increased(for VERY spirited canyon carving or HPDE/RR).

Not to mention they look bitchin'...

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by gunslinger

I believe that is a picture of the front of a ZR1 with Carbon Ceramic brakes.

EDIT: I HOPE GMPP offers a brake upgrade.

Although you may still be able to lock the tires up at 80 or 90 MPH with the stock brakes, the advantage of a larger rotor and pad surface area is extra heat absorption. True, they may not work as well at low temps(like any Road Race style pad) the number of times you can stop from 120+ MPH before the brakes fade is significantly increased(for VERY spirited canyon carving or HPDE/RR).

Not to mention they look bitchin'...

There is no speed limit on locking the tires up, especially not with brakes like these (regular brakes can only grab so much, 4 piston Brembos can grab that thing hard easy over 100+), Once you nail the brakes while they wont lock immediately, once they scrub off enough for the pads to dig in, they will lock the tires within fractions of a second (then ABS turns on).

You can experience brake fade at 60 mph depending on how you are riding the brakes and how often you are hitting them, while normal driving 30 mph wont kill them, 60 with a lot of stops, hard braking can easily. Try autocrossing, you rarely reach speeds over 60 there, and I managed to get brake fade on my Z51 Vette (on the way to 2nd FTD so yeah I wasn't riding the brakes). Its how often and how hard you are on and off the brakes, as well as how quickly. A larger rotor will dissipate heat faster as it has more surface area, but you need more pad to effectively stop such a large disc....

[Xanthos]

Not sure about the drilled and slotted rotors and whatnot - I'm not an engineer either - but it seems noteworthy to point out that the ZR1 recorded the fastest 60-0 (or was it 70-0?) stop Car and Driver had ever recorded.
- Xanthos

P.S. - I would buy the SS brake kit for my V6 if it was offered and I had the money. Then again, I also think they should offer the SS rear gears for the V6 through GMPP.

[headpunter]

Originally Posted by XanthosV6

Not sure about the drilled and slotted rotors and whatnot - I'm not an engineer either - but it seems noteworthy to point out that the ZR1 recorded the fastest 60-0 (or was it 70-0?) stop Car and Driver had ever recorded.
- Xanthos

P.S. - I would buy the SS brake kit for my V6 if it was offered and I had the money. Then again, I also think they should offer the SS rear gears for the V6 through GMPP.

the zr1 uses Carbon ceramics that just for Calipers and Disks cost 8000 dollars

[baileyrx]

is your avatar barfing smiles? very hypnotic...

[Rekt]

I'm thinking of upgrading the brakes.