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Old 06-25-2010, 09:13 AM   #1
OUTATIME
 
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Need help negotiating ...

So I think I finally found the leftover 2010 Camaro of my dreams. It's about 80 miles away in Long Island. I'm making the trip up Saturday, and so far, the salesman has been really good, very informative, making sure the car is held there, etc. He's said that even though it's a lot car, it's "brand new", has "no significant mileage", and has "no marks" meaning no scratches, etc. The car also has the matte black stripes which I don't really want to pay for, but I guess I'm not opposed to how they look.

MSRP: $38,190
Invoice: $36,427
Dealer Holdback: ?????

I think to make this car work for the ideal financial situation, in the beginning I did not want to go over ~$35,500 pre-tax which was approximately the ORIGINAL invoice price (without stripes) back in May of last year when the car was released. Invoice price shouldn't be hard to get, but how far below invoice do you think I can get this car? A few hundred? ~$1000? How do I leverage the features I don't want into a price reduction of that magnitude? I'm not expecting to get it that low, but as low as I can get, obviously with them making $$ off the sale, and me not ripping my pockets open.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:20 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by OUTATIME View Post
So I think I finally found the leftover 2010 Camaro of my dreams. It's about 80 miles away in Long Island. I'm making the trip up Saturday, and so far, the salesman has been really good, very informative, making sure the car is held there, etc. He's said that even though it's a lot car, it's "brand new", has "no significant mileage", and has "no marks" meaning no scratches, etc. The car also has the matte black stripes which I don't really want to pay for, but I guess I'm not opposed to how they look.

MSRP: $38,190
Invoice: $36,427
Dealer Holdback: ?????

I think to make this car work for the ideal financial situation, in the beginning I did not want to go over ~$35,500 pre-tax which was approximately the ORIGINAL invoice price (without stripes) back in May of last year when the car was released. Invoice price shouldn't be hard to get, but how far below invoice do you think I can get this car? A few hundred? ~$1000? How do I leverage the features I don't want into a price reduction of that magnitude? I'm not expecting to get it that low, but as low as I can get, obviously with them making $$ off the sale, and me not ripping my pockets open.
Unless you own a Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer don't hold your breath on getting below invoice. There's a buyer out there for every car. If the vehicle has options you don't want, then in their eyes you are looking at the wrong car. They aren't going to sell a car for practice. Holdback is not a negotiation tool. The dealership uses that money for overhead costs, not to figure gross on a car deal. Gross profit figures are calculated from invoice. $100 over invoice is honestly a great and fair deal for both you and the dealership.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:32 AM   #3
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I think what I'm asking you is to how to NOT use holdback as a negotiation tool, but still get below invoice. There are a few people on this board who have posted leftover 2010 purchases at below invoice and I'd like to be there too.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:48 AM   #4
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If you said you are looking for the car you always wanted, that puts a little different twist in the negotiations as well, PLUS after driving 160 miles for the car, puts pressure on you, are you trading in a car ?? Trade good ??? If it has the vinyl stripes applied, a good hair dryer and sitting in the sun and the stripes come off !! Good luck, finding the car you want means a lot !!!
Some companies get a vendor discount for GM vehicles and maybe you work for one, I heard there are credit union discounts, search this site and you should see a lot of discounts that may lower the price...
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:53 AM   #5
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So far I've been good about not telling the salesman "OMG OMG I WANT IT PLZ PLZ LOLZ LOLZ". Yes, I'm driving ~160 miles but I have told him that if the pricing/financing/condition of the car is not reasonable I have no problem making the trip back. There is no trade, only a cash down payment which is really all I plan to offer. Don't get me wrong, the salesman and I are not treating each other like crap, but at the same time I've heard so many stealership stories that make this process a little scary . . .
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:56 AM   #6
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Keep in mind, some parts of the country, cars are doing much better than others...if they only have a few 10's left, and their 2011 allocation is sold, it will be a while before they get more lot cars.....A slack in end of year allocation really put a dent in "in stock" units...and those decided to rather order a 2011. While you may get a dealer with an in stock unit that is "aged" - being on the lot a long time, willing to give up more and make less, other dealers still deal with a good demand on the 2010's.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:58 AM   #7
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It is a 2010. Remember that. You can order a 2011 at invoice, don't pay it for a 2010. The dealer should have already sold it. It is his loss, it shouldn't be yours.
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:01 AM   #8
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In the grand scheme, it just doesn't matter. Go buy the car. *rant* How much below cost did you get that bottle of Clorox bleach? That is right, none.

Look, offer the guy a fair price, or what you are willing to pay. If he takes it, great you just got yourself a car! If not leave the dealership. This should not be a contest of who wins, or who can get the car for the lowest (best?) price.

I just read the post again.

If your concern is letting them make a profit - how much profit do YOU think is fair. Now look at it this way - If you were SELLING the car how much profit do YOU think is fair? Ask the guy how much they want to make on it, and negotiate the profit, not the sale price.
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:07 AM   #9
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IMHO...the car is a year old brand new or not...So why would you pay full price when you can get a 11 for the same?
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:08 AM   #10
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If your concern is letting them make a profit - how much profit do YOU think is fair. Now look at it this way - If you were SELLING the car how much profit do YOU think is fair? Ask the guy how much they want to make on it, and negotiate the profit, not the sale price.
AHHH. Thank you.

I have absolutely no gauge of how much profit they'll make at each figure I listed, and yes, I want it to be fair considering this is a 2010 lot car, as opposed to a 2011 sold order rolling off the truck. Does anyone know?
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:24 AM   #11
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AHHH. Thank you.

I have absolutely no gauge of how much profit they'll make at each figure I listed, and yes, I want it to be fair considering this is a 2010 lot car, as opposed to a 2011 sold order rolling off the truck. Does anyone know?

I ordered a 2011 just the way I wanted. Its build date is monday.
MSRP was 39 and change
Paid 37 and change

I would have to assume that is at or just below invoice. Just tell them to come off it 5 grand or buy a new one.
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:34 AM   #12
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I ordered a 2011 just the way I wanted. Its build date is monday.
MSRP was 39 and change
Paid 37 and change

I would have to assume that is at or just below invoice. Just tell them to come off it 5 grand or buy a new one.
Huck:
I agree with you. Since there were no price markups from 2010 to 2011 (except $350) for models with HUD. Order a 2011, get the car you want (instead of paying $470 for stripes you don't want) - and it will be your car, you can follow the build process each step of the way..

You will never forget it, I promise. I waited nearly 7 months for mine last year, sold my 350Z in July thinking I would have my car in Aug/Sept, but didn't get it til Dec.. Rode my motorcycle when I could, husband rode his on rainy days so I could drive his truck. I'm laughing now... But, every morning, I open the door into the garage and see my Camaro and can't believe I have one sitting in the garage and it's exactly what I wanted. Lori
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:40 AM   #13
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i am currently talking to dealers in the area about getting a 2010 SGM and they won't budge on price so I tell them ok, i'll just wait for the 2011 because i am not paying MSRP on a 2010. they always reply with the oh, well, you cant even get the SGM for 2011 yet (orders start 6 days from now) and then one even had the nerve to lie and say the 2011s have a $500 price increase. so i said ok cya bud, and you move on to the next dealer.

DO NOT buy a 2010 for MSRP. unless they offer a significant discount just get the 2011 you want.
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:11 AM   #14
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Just about every dealership I've talked to with the exception of one, has told me they'll give me around invoice or less on a 2010. Like someone said earlier - cars in some areas are doing better than others so that might be the case with you, considering FL would be a great place to drive a Camaro year round.
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:18 AM   #15
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Just order one from my dealership and they can have the factory send it to one near you if you are getting jerked around. I have spent a rediculous amount of money there. I didnt even put a deposit down. I just called them and told them to order it. The week before, I told them to toss me the keys to a brand new 2SS and I would bring it back in a few days.
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:28 AM   #16
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I would go in offering about $3K off MSRP, and know beforehand what your upper limit is (i.e don't pay more than $2500 under MSRP). I always determine invoice from Edmunds.com, then determine how much off MSRP I'll pay. If you reference invoice, they can show you documents that include advertising and dealer add-ons that distort invoice and confuse you. Then you get home and figure out you paid $600 under MSRP:(

Also keep in mind that when you drive a long way to look at a car, they assume you really want to come away with a car, so it'll take some work to get their best deal.

Here's what I would do - each time you come to an impasse in negotiations, tell them your last offer was your bottom line and that you'll go home and buy a 2011 locally. I doubt that they'll let you leave. And that's the ONLY way to determine what their best deal is...
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:40 AM   #17
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I wouldn't buy EITHER at MSRP
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:43 AM   #18
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I wouldn't buy EITHER at MSRP
Scotty, if I end up going with a 2011, would I be able to order from you and have the car shipped near me? Is that something you can do? or even a 2010 SGM if you have? or can you only help people in your area?

First time new car buyer here so a little inexperienced but learning a lot...
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:19 PM   #19
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can you only help people in your area?

Heck no!!!!!!!! I'am buying my 11 from Scotty and I'am in NJ. It was built on Monday so I hope to see it around the 4th of July.
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:48 PM   #20
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Wow . . . this inspires me lol. If my deal falls through, I'll be giving Scotty a call.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:22 PM   #21
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im confused, if Scotty can sell to anyone and he gives out such good deals (right? doesn't he?) then why wouldn't anyone on here NOT buy from him?
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:25 PM   #22
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Scotty is the man. He gave me a good quote super fast. I ended up going local just because he is 800+ miles away, but he will not steer you wrong!
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:26 PM   #23
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im confused, if Scotty can sell to anyone and he gives out such good deals (right? doesn't he?) then why wouldn't anyone on here NOT buy from him?
Too far away for me.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:31 PM   #24
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Too far away for me.
right, well apparently he can ship the car to a local dealer right? I mean I am in Miami so obviously I am not taking delivery of a car in Michigan. So if I go with scotty i'm sure he will arrange it to be shipped to a dealer down here (correct me if im wrong scotty)
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Old 06-25-2010, 03:43 PM   #25
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right, well apparently he can ship the car to a local dealer right? I mean I am in Miami so obviously I am not taking delivery of a car in Michigan. So if I go with scotty i'm sure he will arrange it to be shipped to a dealer down here (correct me if im wrong scotty)
Yes this can be done however be warned that the receiving dealer will charge to receive and do the PDI on the car. This amount can range from a couple hundred dollars to a thousand dollars or more. Before you decide to do this make sure you will be saving money by doing this.
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