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Forced Induction - V6 V6 Supercharger, turbo, nitrous discussions

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Old 10-25-2010, 04:19 AM   #501
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Probably not for the v-6. Not too many people buying the single kit as is, don't think it would be worth it to offer twin but you should ask STS directly. They should be able to easily do the twin since the set-up is very similar to the v-8. They said the boost is slower with the twin.
the boost is slower with twins? any idea why?
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:39 PM   #502
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They said the boost is slower with the twin.
A turbocharger is driven by exhaust gas. It takes a certain amount of exhaust energy to drive the exhaust wheel. If you split the total exhaust over two turbochargers, they will be a little less efficient than a single turbo of an equivalent size.

How fast a car comes up on boost has everything to do with the size of the turbocharger wheels. The power a turbocharger, and by design, the engine makes is dependent on the size of turbocharger.

Bigger turbochargers make more power.

Smaller turbochargers make less power.

The smaller turbo will come up faster than a bigger turbo. The more displacement and exhaust energy you have, the quicker the turbo will come up.

Pick a turbocharger by the power you want to make. Build everything else around that. If you want to make 400 hp, the turbocharger will be much smaller than a turbocharger that will support 1000 hp.
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Old 10-25-2010, 05:54 PM   #503
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What he said. Thanks Sean.

Essentially, if you are only going to run 400 rwhp or so on the V-6, the single works great. The twins for the V-6 would be more for the "wow" factor. If you're looking for power across the band, I would say the single is the way to go.

Of course, everwhere I go its "wow, you got a turbo?". Cool, is it TWINS?, Oh. Still cool but not twins. (although as a man, I can appreaciate a nice pair.....of turbos.)

I don't think I've ever NOT been asked that question. Turbo guys usually say yeah, with the v6 doesn't make sense. But for the WOW factor, you would want to get the TWINS.

Not sure if STS will sell you the kit without the turbo but you could ask. You can buy a different size turbo from them if you like as well.
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:33 PM   #504
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hmm i nvr knew that twins made it slower to spool but i hope they figure this turbo situation out b/c im waiting for all the kinks to be made out or for a supercharger if that produces alot of power
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:00 PM   #505
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Don't get too confused here, two of the same size turbos compared to only one of the exact same size turbo will indeed spool slower.

However, two smaller turbos that effectively equal the size (when added together) of one larger turbo will actually spool a little faster than the single turbo, because the moment of inertia (MOI) increases at the square of speed, and these things spin fast. The two smaller sets of wheels have a lower MOI than the one larger.
So in short, each turbo is receiving half of the exhaust, but they're half the size (of the single), but they still spool faster because the smaller wheels have less momentum to build up.

In the real world it isn't a huge spool difference, and packaging is more of a concern. A single is simpler and so has less to go potentially wrong. If sized right, it will work perfectly well. That's why STS decided to go with the single rather than dual for the LLT (and I think they might not have small enough turbos to make them usable anyway. They already had to downsize the exhaust housing as it is.)

Hopefully this clears up any misconceptions.
(BTW, yes, I am still watching this and the other turbo threads. )
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:22 AM   #506
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i wanna turbo...
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:37 AM   #507
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I always thought in a dual turbo setup one was smaller to spin up really fast and the other was a lot bigger to take over to put out the really big power. the smaller one was just to get things going....

i guess you learn something new every day.

anyway keep up the good work Z Madness!! I can't wait for more info on this
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:54 AM   #508
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I thought 2 small ones spool faster than 1 big one..........
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Old 10-26-2010, 11:11 AM   #509
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I always thought in a dual turbo setup one was smaller to spin up really fast and the other was a lot bigger to take over to put out the really big power. the smaller one was just to get things going....

i guess you learn something new every day.

anyway keep up the good work Z Madness!! I can't wait for more info on this
I believe there is a setup like this. It's called sequential turbos.
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Old 10-26-2010, 11:11 AM   #510
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Originally Posted by Edge.128 View Post
I always thought in a dual turbo setup one was smaller to spin up really fast and the other was a lot bigger to take over to put out the really big power. the smaller one was just to get things going....

i guess you learn something new every day.

anyway keep up the good work Z Madness!! I can't wait for more info on this
That can be done with a series/sequential twin-turbo setup, they exist too (but much less commonly). They can get rather complex to work properly. You can find lots of info about the various setups on the internet.

What I described and what is being talked about here is a parallel twin-turbo setup, and with that you have to use two identical turbos.

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I thought 2 small ones spool faster than 1 big one..........
They do, in exactly the way I described above.
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Old 10-26-2010, 11:16 AM   #511
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ahhh ok so they do exist hahhahaha ok thanks!! but I see what you are saying about 2 the same size. so really for our cars a single seems to be the way to go. thanks for the info
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:16 PM   #512
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Allturbo, glad you are still around. I thought you'd be lurking somewhere...hehehehe

Again, bottom line for our cars is the single should be more than sufficient for around 400-ish rwhp.

I say, knock yourself out. You got the funds and the know how, go for twins. For me, the single is fine. I am having much fun as is and still trying to get the most out of the single.

Now, when I get my Z-28, that'll be another story, if its not already Supercharged. I would definately go twins with an LS3...
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Old 10-27-2010, 09:55 AM   #513
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Still around. Still subscribed. However I dont have much to contribute at this point, haha Looks like everyone has it figured out on the turbos. Doesnt sound like twins are needed at this point when 5 psi is all the motor can handle before oil starts squirting.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:48 AM   #514
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Here is some really helpful information on turbo systems.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech101.html

The 101 is pretty basic. 102 and 103 is the meat and potatoes for sizing if you want to choose a turbo yourself. If your doing twins just divide the Q (flow rate) by 2. The pressure ratio will stay the same.
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Old 10-27-2010, 01:50 PM   #515
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Originally Posted by Edge.128 View Post
I always thought in a dual turbo setup one was smaller to spin up really fast and the other was a lot bigger to take over to put out the really big power. the smaller one was just to get things going....

i guess you learn something new every day.

anyway keep up the good work Z Madness!! I can't wait for more info on this
I'm thinking about this one too, this is a common set-up for import TT cars, I even read of a 1000hp TT evo built by AMS using this setup. hmmmm. .. .
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Old 10-27-2010, 03:07 PM   #516
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I'm thinking about this one too, this is a common set-up for import TT cars, I even read of a 1000hp TT evo built by AMS using this setup. hmmmm. .. .
Evo's usually aren't twin turbo. The engine in the Evo is a 2 liter 4 cylinder, even stroked its 2.2-2.3 liters. Generally to get to 1000 hp in the Evo, they will do a big single GT42 or larger at big, big boost numbers 40+psi.

Most of the twins you will see are in a V6 or inline 6 configuration.
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:39 PM   #517
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i dont think i have ever seen a tt evo.......or any 4 banger for that matter
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Old 10-27-2010, 05:05 PM   #518
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i dont think i have ever seen a tt evo.......or any 4 banger for that matter
Twin turbos just aren't necessary on such small displacement engines. Back when I drove an eclipse, I heard of a few that had done a twin or a sequential setup, but not very many. Cost just isn't worth it.
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Old 10-27-2010, 05:26 PM   #519
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Evo's usually aren't twin turbo. The engine in the Evo is a 2 liter 4 cylinder, even stroked its 2.2-2.3 liters. Generally to get to 1000 hp in the Evo, they will do a big single GT42 or larger at big, big boost numbers 40+psi.

Most of the twins you will see are in a V6 or inline 6 configuration.
I didn't mean that, Theres the castrol something engine build contest before and I think it's on modified or import tuner AMS shop built the TT evo motor that got the gold.
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Old 11-06-2010, 06:47 AM   #520
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Ok... today is the day! Rich is hitting the track! Now it is really cold here so traction may be an issue! High today is upper 30s/low 40s!!! We are going to have some great air but the question will be can we hook?
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Old 11-06-2010, 07:39 AM   #521
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Ok... today is the day! Rich is hitting the track! Now it is really cold here so traction may be an issue! High today is upper 30s/low 40s!!! We are going to have some great air but the question will be can we hook?
Don't be afraid to heat 'em up.
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Old 11-06-2010, 01:37 PM   #522
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Gonna be tough to hook I'd imagine....so get a little smoke rollin from those babys before you go on down the line!

Good luck!
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Old 11-06-2010, 03:29 PM   #523
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Ok... today is the day! Rich is hitting the track! Now it is really cold here so traction may be an issue! High today is upper 30s/low 40s!!! We are going to have some great air but the question will be can we hook?
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Old 11-06-2010, 04:32 PM   #524
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Does anyone know if scrming was able to get the ported throttle body before he went? I know they said it would be a couple of weeks, but just hoping...
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Old 11-06-2010, 04:48 PM   #525
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Does anyone know if scrming was able to get the ported throttle body before he went? I know they said it would be a couple of weeks, but just hoping...
Just got back from the track... no TB...

Rich had traction issues and shifting problems.. the 1-2 shift that people are having issues with really hurt him... he had to really kind of baby the shifts... also the gears are so short in the 6 speed he would hit the rev limiter before he knew it.....
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