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Old 11-02-2008, 07:47 PM   #1
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Cam/Head?

So Ive pretty much have all my mods picked out with the exception of Camshaft and heads...I understand, for the most part the specs but don't really know how to apply them. Im looking to be somewhere around 400 hp...keeping in mind this will be my daily driver so I dont need anything to aggressive, or thats gonna kill gas milage. I am looking for a cam that will have a lovely Idle tone...you that deep drone. I cant look at the cam specs and tell if the idle is gonna be choppy? dont want that! any help will be much appreciated!
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Old 11-02-2008, 08:37 PM   #2
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Well, if its a DD I'd say go with a 22x duration with up to 580 or so lift on a 114 LSA, something like this:
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=166&catid=44

And for heads either ported and milled LS6 or just ported 5.3 (depending on budget) since the 5.3 heads already have smaller combustion chambers. If you already have and LS6 intake and headers that should get you 400+ RWHP on a Dynojet, especially if you have a stick.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:15 AM   #3
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I'm making just over 400 RWHP through a 4L60E & Moser 12 bolt. With TEA Stage 1.5 heads (5.3L) and MTI C1 cam (now defunked). It's real close to the cam Chocolate offered. (224 duration, 0.561 lift on a 114 lobe) You can hear my car startup on my fQuick site:blaSSt

Note that the GMMG exhaust is key to that sound
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Old 11-03-2008, 02:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolate Apocalypse View Post
Well, if its a DD I'd say go with a 22x duration with up to 580 or so lift on a 114 LSA, something like this:
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=166&catid=44

And for heads either ported and milled LS6 or just ported 5.3 (depending on budget) since the 5.3 heads already have smaller combustion chambers. If you already have and LS6 intake and headers that should get you 400+ RWHP on a Dynojet, especially if you have a stick.
funny you mention that I was researching and came across this cam

.580/.580 lift, 216/222 at .050, 114 Lobe Separation

seems good for what I want to use it for, I cant tell how the idle will sound just by looking at these numbers
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Old 11-03-2008, 02:54 PM   #5
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The higher the LSA the lopier idle it will have.
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Old 11-03-2008, 03:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
The higher the LSA the lopier idle it will have.
Actually its the opposite, a higher LSA will give you a smoother idle.

If you go to LS1Sounds.com they have different cams you can listen to, youtube also has a decent amount of LS cam vids.
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Old 11-03-2008, 03:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
The higher the LSA the lopier idle it will have.
backwards...


the lower the angle, the more the lobes will overlap, which causes lope.




flat out... if you are going to spend the money to buy new heads, you could just get your stock ones ported/polished with new hardware and a matching cam.

case in point. email Lloyd @ http://www.elliottsportworks.com/ls1.html

get his LE2 package. nice driveability and great power.

and a nice spectrum of cam ranges
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Old 11-03-2008, 03:49 PM   #8
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Nice, after this weekend I'll be in the extreme category.
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Old 11-03-2008, 05:26 PM   #9
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My bad, it figures I would get that backwards. I had even just ordered my own cam with a 114 LSA.
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
backwards...


the lower the angle, the more the lobes will overlap, which causes lope.




flat out... if you are going to spend the money to buy new heads, you could just get your stock ones ported/polished with new hardware and a matching cam.

case in point. email Lloyd @ http://www.elliottsportworks.com/ls1.html

get his LE2 package. nice driveability and great power.

and a nice spectrum of cam ranges

That Spike...he always knows what to say!
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:27 PM   #11
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That Spike...he always knows what to say!
I aim to please...
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
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My bad, it figures I would get that backwards. I had even just ordered my own cam with a 114 LSA.
114 isnt bad in any way shape or form. granted it wont have the same lope, but sometimes you gotta ask yourself.... do I want to sound fast or go fast?
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Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
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Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
114 isnt bad in any way shape or form. granted it wont have the same lope, but sometimes you gotta ask yourself.... do I want to sound fast or go fast?
OK...114LSA makes the idle sound more like stock. Lower LSA makes it choppy/rough. Higher LSA does what? Im assuming that the lower LSA is more aggressive, but Ive seen LSA's that were like 117
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:38 PM   #14
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114 isnt bad in any way shape or form. granted it wont have the same lope, but sometimes you gotta ask yourself.... do I want to sound fast or go fast?
Well, I'm also planning on going supercharged sooo...
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:52 PM   #15
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Category 1- "A step up from stock"

210-220* duration, should be spun to about 6000-6200 for max performance.

These cams will offer stock like driveability, no cam surge, not much lope, and great low end torque with little change in gas mileage. These can be used with stock manifolds, however shorties or longtubes are recommended. These can also be used with cats (won't clog them up) and WILL pass smog in all 50 states.

Category 2- "A little hotter!"

220-230* duration, should be spun to 6200-6400 for max performance.

These cams will have little cam surge, have a decent amount of lope, and the powerband will shift higher. Auto's should use at minimum a 3.23 gear, preferable a 3.42 or higher. A 2800-3000ish stall will also work the best. Gas mileage will drop a few mpg. Power in the 340-350rwhp range should be acheivable with stock heads and longtubes. I wouldn't use these with stock manifolds. With cats and a GOOD tune this will still pass smog in all 50 states, however the cats will clog more quickly than a stockish type car. 918 beehive springs will match all of these cams very well.

Category 3- "The big guns!"
230+* duration, should be spun to 6500+ for max performance.

These cams will have lots of lope, a very noticeable drop in low end torque, and a healthy drop in gas mileage. Even with a good driveability tune, these cams will still have a bit of surge to them, and WILL NOT PASS SMOG. They'll also clog up cats pretty quick. Autos should run a 3.73+ gear and a 3200+ stall. M6 can still use a stock gear, however 4.10s will give big driveability, and performance gains. M6 will need to downshift freequently on the highway with stock gearing!


Category 4- "The custom crowd"

Simple, tell the cam manufacturer what they wanna hear, and they'll give you an optimal cam that will do everything you want... lol kinda Often they will have tighter LSAs, lower durations, and higher lift. Most will offer improved power, but better driveability than a similar sized cam.

A word about LSA:
Wide (high) LSAs give better driveability with less emissions, tighter (lower) LSAs give a choppy idle. Wider lsa will give you flat long power curves. Tighter lsa will give you peakier type curves, and will typically make more lowend and midrange, however fall off faster up top with the same size cam. Nitrous loves a wide LSA, FI typically likes the same because wider LSA=less overlap however custom cams are another story on that. Most of the above cams are either a 112 or 114 lsa. Most customs are tighter in the 107-110 range depending on the app, talk to a cam grinder if you want more info on it



bowtieguy, you should be ok with 114 lsa esp since you are going F/I
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogwinters View Post
Read that link that Spike posted, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
and fart awesomeness
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
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Old 11-03-2008, 09:01 PM   #16
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bowtieguy, you should be ok with 114 lsa esp since you are going F/I
I know, I've done a ridiculous amount of research. School helps too.
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People have to talk about something just to keep their voice boxes in working order. So they'll have good voice boxes in case there's ever anything really meaningful to say.
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Old 11-03-2008, 09:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23 View Post
Category 1- "A step up from stock"

210-220* duration, should be spun to about 6000-6200 for max performance.

These cams will offer stock like driveability, no cam surge, not much lope, and great low end torque with little change in gas mileage. These can be used with stock manifolds, however shorties or longtubes are recommended. These can also be used with cats (won't clog them up) and WILL pass smog in all 50 states.

Category 2- "A little hotter!"

220-230* duration, should be spun to 6200-6400 for max performance.

These cams will have little cam surge, have a decent amount of lope, and the powerband will shift higher. Auto's should use at minimum a 3.23 gear, preferable a 3.42 or higher. A 2800-3000ish stall will also work the best. Gas mileage will drop a few mpg. Power in the 340-350rwhp range should be acheivable with stock heads and longtubes. I wouldn't use these with stock manifolds. With cats and a GOOD tune this will still pass smog in all 50 states, however the cats will clog more quickly than a stockish type car. 918 beehive springs will match all of these cams very well.

Category 3- "The big guns!"
230+* duration, should be spun to 6500+ for max performance.

These cams will have lots of lope, a very noticeable drop in low end torque, and a healthy drop in gas mileage. Even with a good driveability tune, these cams will still have a bit of surge to them, and WILL NOT PASS SMOG. They'll also clog up cats pretty quick. Autos should run a 3.73+ gear and a 3200+ stall. M6 can still use a stock gear, however 4.10s will give big driveability, and performance gains. M6 will need to downshift freequently on the highway with stock gearing!


Category 4- "The custom crowd"

Simple, tell the cam manufacturer what they wanna hear, and they'll give you an optimal cam that will do everything you want... lol kinda Often they will have tighter LSAs, lower durations, and higher lift. Most will offer improved power, but better driveability than a similar sized cam.

A word about LSA:
Wide (high) LSAs give better driveability with less emissions, tighter (lower) LSAs give a choppy idle. Wider lsa will give you flat long power curves. Tighter lsa will give you peakier type curves, and will typically make more lowend and midrange, however fall off faster up top with the same size cam. Nitrous loves a wide LSA, FI typically likes the same because wider LSA=less overlap however custom cams are another story on that. Most of the above cams are either a 112 or 114 lsa. Most customs are tighter in the 107-110 range depending on the app, talk to a cam grinder if you want more info on it



bowtieguy, you should be ok with 114 lsa esp since you are going F/I
you need an ask Spike section...lol
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