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Old 06-28-2010, 04:50 PM   #1
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My Camaro is pulling timing!

2SS/RS 6.2L L99 with A6. When I go WOT it pulls timing from a dig. I have TM out or I think I have it out and TC turn off! I am tunning with HPTuners. Any ideas? I was going to attach a log but it will not let me.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:59 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Pro Street View Post
2SS/RS 6.2L L99 with A6. When I go WOT it pulls timing from a dig. I have TM out or I think I have it out and TC turn off! I am tunning with HPTuners. Any ideas? I was going to attach a log but it will not let me.
There are many things that can cause timing to get retarded. Burst KR at launch isw fairly common. Very warm intake air temps will cause timing to be pulled under WOT loads. Insufficient octane relative to the tune will be cause for timing retard. Poor quality fuel is another cause. Knock sensors correctly or incorrectly can cause the timing to be reduced (usually overkill too). Good logs with the proper parameters loggged should tell.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:22 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Pro Street View Post
2SS/RS 6.2L L99 with A6. When I go WOT it pulls timing from a dig. I have TM out or I think I have it out and TC turn off! I am tunning with HPTuners. Any ideas? I was going to attach a log but it will not let me.
Are you sure it is pulling timing? Many cars with the A6 will dive into the part of the timing table that many people do not change. For example at 1600 RPM and .64 grams/cyl of air there is only 9 degrees.

Try to modify the table at lower RPM levels and higher load levels and check it again. If you send me a scan I can tell you for sure. I can read any scan you send me, I don't know what software you are using.
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:06 PM   #4
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Aside from logging total advance... log all of the spark adders/retards to see what sources are pulling timing out.

What conditions are you seeing the timing get pulled out?... A log would help.
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:39 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Kirk@VectorMotorsports View Post
Are you sure it is pulling timing? Many cars with the A6 will dive into the part of the timing table that many people do not change. For example at 1600 RPM and .64 grams/cyl of air there is only 9 degrees.

Try to modify the table at lower RPM levels and higher load levels and check it again. If you send me a scan I can tell you for sure. I can read any scan you send me, I don't know what software you are using.

Sent you a PM.
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:41 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
Aside from logging total advance... log all of the spark adders/retards to see what sources are pulling timing out.

What conditions are you seeing the timing get pulled out?... A log would help.

Where can I send you a log? I can not upload a log here.
Thanks!
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:49 PM   #7
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Sent you a PM.
Got it. The car is doing as I suspected. Under 1700 RPM you are in a part of the timing table that is very low.

Actually you are at .64 gm/cyl at only 800 RPM. Not very much timing down there!

Bring those numbers up, but dont get crazy. Keep them in the high single digits to start.

Good luck and happy tuning!

Also, you have zero upshift torque management. I would just reduce it by 50% or so. What intake is on the car? You are pulling a 12 Kpa depression in the manifold, thats huge.
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:33 PM   #8
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Got it. The car is doing as I suspected. Under 1700 RPM you are in a part of the timing table that is very low.

Actually you are at .64 gm/cyl at only 800 RPM. Not very much timing down there!

Bring those numbers up, but dont get crazy. Keep them in the high single digits to start.

Good luck and happy tuning!

Also, you have zero upshift torque management. I would just reduce it by 50% or so. What intake is on the car? You are pulling a 12 Kpa depression in the manifold, thats huge.
Thanks Kirk!
I will add timing down in those areas! It stll has the stock air filter system.
Thanks again!
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:23 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Kirk@VectorMotorsports View Post
You are pulling a 12 Kpa depression in the manifold, thats huge.
Holy crap... and I thought 3kPa was bad!
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:02 PM   #10
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Holy crap... and I thought 3kPa was bad!
That is why everyone says they can feel a hugh change with a CAI!
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Old 06-30-2010, 08:24 AM   #11
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That is why everyone says they can feel a hugh change with a CAI!
I get pissed when I see my manifold pressure drop from 99 to 98 by 7200rpm.
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:52 AM   #12
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Thanks Kirk!
I will add timing down in those areas! It stll has the stock air filter system.
Thanks again!
No problem. Now get yourself a CAI!
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Old 07-02-2010, 03:01 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Pro Street View Post
Thanks Kirk!
I will add timing down in those areas! It stll has the stock air filter system.
Thanks again!
Whenever I tune somebody's automatic (usually in C6 Corvettes) that's one of the first things I work on as it can make a huge difference to how the car takes off. In my car I only see about a 2-3 drop when I launch the car at the track.

I agree with Kirk though in that you have to add more timing in small increments until you're happy with the results.
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Old 07-03-2010, 11:33 AM   #14
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Whenever I tune somebody's automatic (usually in C6 Corvettes) that's one of the first things I work on as it can make a huge difference to how the car takes off. In my car I only see about a 2-3 drop when I launch the car at the track.

I agree with Kirk though in that you have to add more timing in small increments until you're happy with the results.
After seeing his log, burst knock was a bigger offender... although that stacked on top of already low timing just compounds the effect.
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Old 07-06-2010, 07:23 PM   #15
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Holy crap... and I thought 3kPa was bad!
Which parameter you are talking about? I thought I only need to recalibrate the MAF when changing the CAI..!!
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Old 07-07-2010, 09:11 AM   #16
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Which parameter you are talking about? I thought I only need to recalibrate the MAF when changing the CAI..!!
We're talking about manifold absolute pressure during WOT. Typically, you want to see MAP as close to barometric pressure as possible... the bigger the difference between the two, the more restriction you have.
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:00 AM   #17
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I get pissed when I see my manifold pressure drop from 99 to 98 by 7200rpm.
Are you saying that maintaining 100 for the entire run after launch is achievable? I hit 100 at launch but then varies between 98, 99, 100 to the traps.
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:24 AM   #18
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Are you saying that maintaining 100 for the entire run after launch is achievable? I hit 100 at launch but then varies between 98, 99, 100 to the traps.
Desired, yes. Achieved... sometimes. With the key on and engine not running, I see 99kPa. During a WOT pull, I can maintain that 99 until about 6500, where it drops to 98.

It's more worthwhile to compare MAP to barometric pressure, instead of just thinking about MAP in the number itself.
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Old 07-08-2010, 12:20 PM   #19
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Desired, yes. Achieved... sometimes. With the key on and engine not running, I see 99kPa. During a WOT pull, I can maintain that 99 until about 6500, where it drops to 98.

It's more worthwhile to compare MAP to barometric pressure, instead of just thinking about MAP in the number itself.
Are you referring to BARO High and Low? I have it set as 98 and 84 kpa in my stock tune, should I adjust these parameters? Is there other parameters I should look at beside this? Thanks a million.
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Old 07-08-2010, 01:14 PM   #20
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You don't have to adjust anything. It's ju...


Nevermind. I'm too brain mushed today.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:52 PM   #21
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aha ok I am just keen to know every single detail
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:06 PM   #22
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Just to make sure that I got that right, do I need to do anything besides recalibrating the MAF for installing new CAI? Thanks,
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:23 PM   #23
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Just to make sure that I got that right, do I need to do anything besides recalibrating the MAF for installing new CAI? Thanks,
You need to do a proper cruise log to see where your long term fuel trims are at after adding the CAI. Some can be cause of positive fuel trims (lean condition). This on it's own is not cause for worry BUT positive fuel trims get added to the open loop/PE tables during wide open throttle operation and can be cause for an undesireably rich AFR. Log your LTFT's and adjust accordingly to get them around -2.
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:15 PM   #24
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Just to make sure that I got that right, do I need to do anything besides recalibrating the MAF for installing new CAI? Thanks,
Not really. Just make sure the car is in pure MAF mode when you're doing it. You might have to play with the P0068 criteria to prevent reduce engine power from happening after WOT pulls.
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Old 07-09-2010, 07:13 AM   #25
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You need to do a proper cruise log to see where your long term fuel trims are at after adding the CAI. Some can be cause of positive fuel trims (lean condition). This on it's own is not cause for worry BUT positive fuel trims get added to the open loop/PE tables during wide open throttle operation and can be cause for an undesireably rich AFR. Log your LTFT's and adjust accordingly to get them around -2.
Got that already but I was worried if I missed anything related to CAI tune in WOT mode. Thanks
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