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Old 07-06-2010, 10:25 PM   #1
gahammerle

 
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Real squirrely in rough corners

Tonight I was on a ramp from one highway to another and it had a lot of bumps. Caused the car to get real squirrely - my wife got a little nervous in the passenger seat.

My suspension, wheels, & tires are all stock LS. Are there any upgrades I can do to keep the car planted better over rough sections (other than modifying how far down I've pressed the accelerator)?
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Old 07-06-2010, 11:03 PM   #2
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By "squirrelly" I'm assuming you meant better than ever? don't make me come over there...

You'll get varying opinions but the must common seem to be lower springs and better sways.
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Old 07-06-2010, 11:07 PM   #3
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What Big Squirrel said

Better sways to start. Then lowering springs, bushings...as with everything, you can go nuts with upgrades...
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Old 07-06-2010, 11:08 PM   #4
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I mean it felt like I was sliding on marbles for a second or two.
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Old 07-06-2010, 11:26 PM   #5
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It could be that you hit some gravel or your just giving it to much gas/steering input or not in the right combination and your back end is slipping out. I don't know your level of experience so hope I'm not offending. If your new to a high horse power rear wheel drive car, especially one as heavy as the camaro it might handle very differently than what your used to. I'd find a SCCA event or something similar in your area. I've always had good experiences with them, on a track you'll be able to safely (relatively anyway) learn the limits of your cars handling and your comfort level and get some professional instruction if you'd like. This car handles pretty well but can be a little freaky when you near the limit. Out of all the mods listed in this forum professional instruction is certainly the best bang for your buck.
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Old 07-06-2010, 11:43 PM   #6
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I was pushing it harder than normal through the curve. It had one section of buckled pavement where it felt like it was just skating across the tops of the ridges - had a real light feeling.
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:20 AM   #7
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My 2LT also does that. Its a weird feeling. I have grip and complete control just feels "squirelly" when cornering over some rough spots. From what ive heard sway's are the first to attack. Im prsonally looking at the PDAFT (or whatever they are called) Sport lite kit.
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Old 07-07-2010, 06:05 AM   #8
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drop it a little and add some sways. I'm running Pfadt all around and love it. The sways really help a lot.
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Old 07-07-2010, 07:24 PM   #9
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Did you notice if your traction control light came on?

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Old 07-07-2010, 07:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Did you notice if your traction control light came on?

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No I didn't notice. I was busy watching the concrete barrier that was getting a little closer.
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Old 07-07-2010, 07:38 PM   #11
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No I didn't notice. I was busy watching the concrete barrier that was getting a little closer.
I am wondering if you ended up with oversteer, and the back end was coming around. Similar to a wheel hop issue. Your thoughts?

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Old 07-07-2010, 07:56 PM   #12
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Yeah, the back-end did feel like it came around a bit.
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Old 07-07-2010, 09:31 PM   #13
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Do you have an automatic or manual tranny? When you were in the corner did you let off the gas or drive it out? If you are running high speed in a corner and let off the gas your engine and actually via compression slow the rear wheels enough to make your rear end break loose. It is more common in a manual transmission than an automatic but can happen with either. High speed driving takes practice and some skill, like was said above hit a SCCA event and get some pointers and make a few runs to practice.
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Old 07-08-2010, 12:03 AM   #14
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I had something similar happen to me when I first got the car. I was going around a freeway overpass sweeper that had an unexpected rough spot where a join had settled and the car did this squirrelly dance all over the place when it hit that section. I had my hands full for a moment and kept it under control but I could feel the suspension worming all over the place with the back and front feeling like they were completely disconnected and doing their own thing unrelated to each other. The whole car had this spongy, worming around, uncoordinated feeling. The rubbery flex of all those stock bushings when they're trying to handle a 2 ton vehicle wanting to go in all direcitons is what you're experiencing.

I've since replaced bushings with the Pedders Street Extreme package along with their coilovers and the difference is like night and day. I've gone over that same stretch with the car the way it is now and it's amazing how different it is. The front and rear feel like they're synchronized now and the car just tracks over it without any drama.

If you're going to performance drive I highly recommend at least a bushing upgrade; you can buy those separately without having to get the coilovers. The car rides much better than stock and the difference in handling is wonderful. It's now very predictable, very solid, very stable and the car feels planted when going over uneven surfaces. Yet the ride is comfortable; not harsh or jolting in the least.
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Old 07-08-2010, 12:42 AM   #15
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Do you have an automatic or manual tranny? When you were in the corner did you let off the gas or drive it out? If you are running high speed in a corner and let off the gas your engine and actually via compression slow the rear wheels enough to make your rear end break loose. It is more common in a manual transmission than an automatic but can happen with either. High speed driving takes practice and some skill, like was said above hit a SCCA event and get some pointers and make a few runs to practice.
My next question. Great point.

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Old 07-08-2010, 07:37 AM   #16
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I have a manual.

I didn't let off the gas. Just held on figuring the rough spot was small and I would keep going in the direction I was headed when back on smooth pavement.
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:00 AM   #17
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Gordy - my '96 Z28SS with the Bilstein Level II suspension was the same way on corners where the pavement was rough and rutted. The whole car drifted, it wasn't the rear loose and coming around.

I have a Hotchkis suspension with Koni Classic adjustible shocks on my '69 Camaro ragtop. On the street if I adjust the shocks to be firmer the '69 starts feeling like the '96 when cornering on rough roadways. By adjusting the shocks to be softer the '69 sticks in the same corner it use to drift through...

The '10 has a very performance oriented suspension that really works well on a smooth road surface like you would find at a track. I think unless you are having problems with the back end coming around on you, your best option would be to live with it as is. If it really bothers you a shock change to something adjustible where you can soften up the dampening a little at a time is your answer.

Going back to my '96, that car handled like a go-cart and I found once I knew what to expect of it, going into a rough corner was not a problem for me...
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:00 PM   #18
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I have a manual.

I didn't let off the gas. Just held on figuring the rough spot was small and I would keep going in the direction I was headed when back on smooth pavement.
Rough spot is the key to this mystery. Your Camaro IRS delivers from the factory with four large NVH voids rubber bushes. The do a good job of keeping the IRS assembly attached to the car and in general going in the same direction as the car. In a corner over a rough patch of pavement with constant throttle or worse when accelerating is where you will notice they can move and cause REAR END STEP OUT.

What you experienced is the rear wheels were starting to steer the car because the entire IRS shifted. It felt nervous, It felt like it was going one way and then went another and then went back, correct?
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:04 PM   #19
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[QUOTE=JusticePete;2154609 It felt nervous, It felt like it was going one way and then went another and then went back, correct?[/QUOTE]

Definitely felt nervous - kinda like going over lopsided marbles.
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:12 PM   #20
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Definitely felt nervous - kinda like going over lopsided marbles.
The fix is sub-frame bush inserts. Pedders EP1200 was designed for exactly this reason. The Camaro is not alone in this issue. You'll find the same issue in the Chrysler LX chassis (Challenger, Charger, Magnum and 300C) as well the the Pontiac G8 and many other vehicles with IRS.

By filling the voids in the OE rubber bushes you end up with a more stable IRS. Install a set of Pedders EP1200 sub-frame bush inserts. Go back to the same turn. Change NOTHING else but the sub-frame bush inserts and you will be amazed. If you are not thrilled at the difference, send me an email and I'll personally refund your money.

The Sub-Frame and radius bush inserts are low hanging fruit for a Camaro owner. Every Camaro built should have these. They transform the car from a sharp knife to finely honed knife edge. You can read more about the suspension on your Camaro in this Camaro5 thread.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...ension+testing
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:19 PM   #21
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man, i haven,t seen big squirell for some time..everytime i see that avatar, just cracks me up..
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:21 PM   #22
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man, i haven,t seen big squirell for some time..everytime i see that avatar, just cracks me up..
You won't be seeing him anymore.

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Old 07-28-2010, 09:27 PM   #23
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You won't be seeing him anymore.

............thats funny as hell!!!!!Brings back GI Joe memories!
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:00 PM   #24
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The fix is sub-frame bush inserts. Pedders EP1200 was designed for exactly this reason. The Camaro is not alone in this issue. You'll find the same issue in the Chrysler LX chassis (Challenger, Charger, Magnum and 300C) as well the the Pontiac G8 and many other vehicles with IRS.

By filling the voids in the OE rubber bushes you end up with a more stable IRS. Install a set of Pedders EP1200 sub-frame bush inserts. Go back to the same turn. Change NOTHING else but the sub-frame bush inserts and you will be amazed. If you are not thrilled at the difference, send me an email and I'll personally refund your money.

The Sub-Frame and radius bush inserts are low hanging fruit for a Camaro owner. Every Camaro built should have these. They transform the car from a sharp knife to finely honed knife edge. You can read more about the suspension on your Camaro in this Camaro5 thread.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...ension+testing
Or he could just slow down on the highway. No trying to kill a sale for you ,but If he was going fast enough on a ramp to upset the car that much and scare the hell out of his wife then he's going to crash sooner or later anyhow.
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:06 PM   #25
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Or he could just slow down on the highway. No trying to kill a sale for you ,but If he was going fast enough on a ramp to upset the car that much and scare the hell out of his wife then he's going to crash sooner or later anyhow.
Point taken, but the Camaro does not have to be going all that fast for this to occur. It is a long read, but since I wrote it well worth the time 5TH Gen Suspension

We all should operate our vehicles safely and obey rules of the road. While doing exactly that an emergency maneuver may be required. By all means slow down and drive safe, but if you love a good corner be prepared.
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