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Old 07-12-2010, 01:15 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin the BlueSS View Post
look at some of the cars the camaro beat out and it is pretty impresive... too bad TG didnt point that our...

BMW M3 csl 1.28.0
Roush mustang 1.28.0
WRX Sti 1.28.2
Mitsubishi Evo X 1.28.22
Dodge viper srt-10 1.28.5
Ford Shelby GT500 1.30.0
Vauxhall Monaro VXR 1.30.1
Aston Martin DB7 GT 1.30.4
BMW M3 1.31.8

not a bad list of cars to beat...

yeah, and that's just the L99 version... imagine what the LS3 car (which is lighter and more powerful) would do on the test track

all in all, I think the fact that the car is half the price of the AMG and only 3 seconds slower is pretty darn impressive
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:22 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin the BlueSS View Post
look at some of the cars the camaro beat out and it is pretty impresive... too bad TG didnt point that our...

BMW M3 csl 1.28.0
Roush mustang 1.28.0
WRX Sti 1.28.2
Mitsubishi Evo X 1.28.22
Dodge viper srt-10 1.28.5
Ford Shelby GT500 1.30.0
Vauxhall Monaro VXR 1.30.1
Aston Martin DB7 GT 1.30.4
BMW M3 1.31.8

not a bad list of cars to beat...
But they are still bias in what they do. For example, the test they did with the Vauxhall Monaro VXR @ 1.30.1, the track was totally saturated with rain. Now is that fair? I would say there is at least a 2 second difference between a rain and dry track

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Old 07-12-2010, 01:27 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by SilverTurtle View Post
yeah, and that's just the L99 version... imagine what the LS3 car (which is lighter and more powerful) would do on the test track

all in all, I think the fact that the car is half the price of the AMG and only 3 seconds slower is pretty darn impressive
L99 lighter than the LS3?

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But they are still bias in what they do. For example, the test they did with the Vauxhall Monaro VXR @ 1.30.1, the track was totally saturated with rain. Now is that fair? I would say there is at least a 2 second difference between a rain and dry track

mike
dms
I believe they claim their little Chevy Leceti (?SP?) sedan is four seconds slower in the rain than in the dry, so that makes sense.
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:30 PM   #204
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But they are still bias in what they do. For example, the test they did with the Vauxhall Monaro VXR @ 1.30.1, the track was totally saturated with rain. Now is that fair? I would say there is at least a 2 second difference between a rain and dry track

mike
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Mike,
Letís start a stamp collection drive and cover Petes car in enough Stamps to ship it over to Top Gear for the STIG to drive.
Rain or shine, Iím sure it will give a thrashing to many of the cars they have tested recently (including that Mercedes)
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:37 PM   #205
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It is a shame they tested the A6 version, the M6 with it's 426hp would have more than likely held up better against the AMG. I have to say the orange looked fantastic through their camera effects, and it sounded pretty good too. Not much sounds as cool as that AMG though. Not a very real comparison in my opinion, they should've brought out a G8 GXP if the wanted to test 4 door American muscle.
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:43 PM   #206
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You keep saying $40,000 - But he said it was £40,000 - in other words, $60,280 US dollars. That's a helluva markup.

Just FYI.
Not really a markup per say, more the fact that it is the US price + 25% tax and 10% duties on top of that. A new stock Mustang GT is way over 50K in Europe!
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:44 PM   #207
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Woo hoo! LOVE that Camaro!

I like how even though genius over here kept putting down the Camaro, the guy driving it repeatedly says, "but I'd still rather have the Camaro. IT HAS SOUL."

THAT is what the Camaro has which all others lack. Sure, the Merc is A BEAST....but, it's luxury Beast that isn't attainable to 90% of car buyers. Getting real, the Camaro will outsell that AMG any day...and toss the upcoming Z28 into the mix and I guarantee you, it's going to wipe the AMG off the MAP.

POOR comparison.

Great show.


But, POOER comparison. Musclecar vs. Luxury car. Hrm...who in the hell said, "YEAH! Let's do it! That's a PERFECT combination!"

Morons...
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:46 PM   #208
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What a waste of 10 minutes.......

Nice fair review/comparo there guys......
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:47 PM   #209
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hmm interesting. Ive been watching Top gear for a few years and i think most of those who are watching this show or the first time really dont understand what they are all about. top gear is a show that has 3 guys that do crazy stuff with cars. everything from trying to make them float to insane treks across foriegn lands. and in the middle of that they take a car and thrash it around their track. It doesnt matter if its a 1million dollar Veyron or a 40k Evo they put them through the test and give their opinions. Are they bias?.....sure they are. they are british.....their bias isnt any different than those of you on here that hate ford, honda, dodge...ect ect. I would keep that in mind when watching this vid.

now my opinion on the episode is that i think with all of the great reviews they have done before this seemed a little bit "thrown together" imo. they usually pay attention to a great amount of detail when they showcase their cars. In this one they seemed to leave alot of great info out. I agree it seemed more about the merc than the camaro. and the use of an auto vs a 6spd is a shocker. All of them hate auto, especially paddle shifters. the fact they didnt mention which one they were using was odd. Likewise the fact they didnt mention the difference between the two transmissions is equally odd. this whole segement seemed a little out of place of their normal reviews. and im not just saying that because i own a camaro. The whole segement is just not one of their best ones period, regardless of the cars they used.
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:50 PM   #210
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Not unexpected, but still entertaining I'm not sure how apples-to-apples that even was, but whatever. Still my favorite show.
+1 Still my favorite show also. When I saw the homepage my first thought was did my DVR record this; did the new season start last week...

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I think many people who are watching that show for the first time in that video needs to understand what's been posted by regular watchers, in this thread previously. These guys are journalists (to my understanding) but that's not what this show is about. These guys can cut apart any car, and usually do. I've watched the show for a couple years, and have not seen a lot of older shows, yet, however, I believe I have a good grasp of the theme of the show. They even say that this show is about fun. I'm not going to defend it, because, frankly, I don't feel the need to, but these guys can be dark on anything. I'm trying to think of one car that these guys haven't had one negative comment about, and know there's maybe ONE or TWO, but that's it. They tear apart Aston Martins, Mercs', BMWs, Audis, it doesn't matter.

That said - they do have a different understanding of what muscle cars are. I say that because it's my opinion musclecars come from America, and we invented them. The comparison in that segment wasn't even reasonable, per se. Another thing is that show doesn't always base it's overall review of a car on numbers by themselves. Clarkson was quick to point out that he thought the 5.2 R8 was a better car than ZR1, but he'd take ZR1 over that R8 because it was more fun.

Don't make this review more than it really is...
True, except I would not even use the word "review"! It's just a car "show".
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:56 PM   #211
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im not sure about that track time....were parts of the video of the track taken out because the AMG only had a half a car legnth on the SS and that doesnt equal 2 seconds..... but this episode wasnt anything out of the ordinary for top gear.
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:03 PM   #212
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it's a UK based show. you can't even buy the mustang over there and i'm not sure you can buy the chally.

humm. neither could you buy a camaro at the time as well but they had one on the show. They are held as an automotive icon place and they probably have people begging to have their cars put on there. They can get any car they want.
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:13 PM   #213
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humm. neither could you buy a camaro at the time as well but they had one on the show. They are held as an automotive icon place and they probably have people begging to have their cars put on there. They can get any car they want.

You can buy Challengers, Camaros, Mustangs etc from any "gray import" dealer or just buy one yourself here and import it to England.

What they mean is GM Europe doesn't officially import it. Many GM dealers though buy them and bring them in though.
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:15 PM   #214
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I've never seen the show before, but after reading the whole thread I walk away with a few thoughts.

One is after reading that you can't buy the Mustang in England and that the Camaro will soon be available to them, they have a solid interest in show casing the car. I home that wasn't a test model as some have suggested it might be. If Chevrolet wants to promote their cars they should send what they're selling.

I get British humor and some of the comment made shouldn't be too offensive. Let's face it because of different needs and developments, tastes for cars are going to differ greatly from here to there. Anyways, why would they compare a Camaro to and AMG. My best reason is engine size coupled with the lack of any other American or European muscle car to compare it to. I think, in their eyes, it was a fair match up as far as their markets go. Further more, it screams to them what it screams to us - "Engine Size and Power is now more affordable to more people!"

We all know that the Camaro is made to be a daily driver for those who want just that and that there is an aftermarket for those of us who want to bump the performance up a bit.

The styling of the Camaro is much more casual than a Mercedes Benz, but I hardly think that makes it a lower car. No I can't see if fitting in at the ball, but going to a happening party puts you right there better than a pretencious Mercedes. I really like the praticality of a Honda, but the style of the Camaro makes me want to go out and get in debt over it. It's a real cool car and will be for years to come.

P.S. I'd like to see that Pedderized Camaro make a trip to the track and see what they make of it then!
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:17 PM   #215
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:26 PM   #216
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Crikey, Top Gear is probably laughing reading this because they KNOW the average American just doesn't get British humour!

Bloody hell!
Especially with some of the comments on this thread. No wonder he thinks Camaro owners are murderers. If you don't get Top Gear, don't comment on it. Saying that the Camaro vs AMG was a "silly comparison" shows your ignorance of what the show is about.
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:29 PM   #217
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Thats what we Brits do best,moan like F#ck about anything and everything!
Whatever Clarkson says,the British public cannot keep their eyes off my 1ss and will walk straight by any and nearly every Merc'.
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:29 PM   #218
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Woo hoo! LOVE that Camaro!

I like how even though genius over here kept putting down the Camaro, the guy driving it repeatedly says, "but I'd still rather have the Camaro. IT HAS SOUL."

THAT is what the Camaro has which all others lack. Sure, the Merc is A BEAST....but, it's luxury Beast that isn't attainable to 90% of car buyers. Getting real, the Camaro will outsell that AMG any day...and toss the upcoming Z28 into the mix and I guarantee you, it's going to wipe the AMG off the MAP.

POOR comparison.

Great show.


But, POOER comparison. Musclecar vs. Luxury car. Hrm...who in the hell said, "YEAH! Let's do it! That's a PERFECT combination!"

Morons...
Sorry I don't think the Z28 will go around the test track faster(would need to shave off almost 4 secomds) than the E63. The Camaro is a great looking American muscle car and perhaps "the best bang for the buck" at 35k.

Like my buddy with Lambos and Ferraris once said "it's not how fast you go.... it's how well you go fast"
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:55 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Rockin the BlueSS View Post
look at some of the cars the camaro beat out and it is pretty impresive... too bad TG didnt point that our...

BMW M3 csl 1.28.0
Roush mustang 1.28.0
WRX Sti 1.28.2
Mitsubishi Evo X 1.28.22
Dodge viper srt-10 1.28.5
Ford Shelby GT500 1.30.0
Vauxhall Monaro VXR 1.30.1
Aston Martin DB7 GT 1.30.4
BMW M3 1.31.8

not a bad list of cars to beat...
Virtually all of those times are "wet track" times. Look at what the Camaro did not beat for a better understanding (which includes many of those cars on the list you've shown - on a dry track).
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Old 07-12-2010, 03:04 PM   #220
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Virtually all of those times are "wet track" times. Look at what the Camaro did not beat for a better understanding (which includes many of those cars on the list you've shown - on a dry track).
if you use the BBC page as i did initially it does not give reference to track condition...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/show/powerlaps.shtml

but using this page
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/show/powerlaps.shtml
only two of the posted cars the BMW M3 CSL and the viper were wet tracks... not the others which still isn't a bad comparison...
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Old 07-12-2010, 03:16 PM   #221
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Old 07-12-2010, 03:20 PM   #222
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now my opinion on the episode is that i think with all of the great reviews they have done before this seemed a little bit "thrown together" imo. they usually pay attention to a great amount of detail when they showcase their cars. In this one they seemed to leave alot of great info out. I agree it seemed more about the merc than the camaro. and the use of an auto vs a 6spd is a shocker. All of them hate auto, especially paddle shifters. the fact they didnt mention which one they were using was odd. Likewise the fact they didnt mention the difference between the two transmissions is equally odd. this whole segement seemed a little out of place of their normal reviews. and im not just saying that because i own a camaro. The whole segement is just not one of their best ones period, regardless of the cars they used.
I agree with you. The review was very sparse on details. I was expecting them to make fun of the interior quality which they didn't even mention. That's why I think it was actually a very good review of the Camaro SS. None of its true flaws were even mentioned.

That's why I'm filled with incredulity at some of the angry responses on this thread. They never said one real thing that was bad about the Camaro. The "bad stuff" was merely a matter of taste, such as you wouldn't find a Nobel Laureate or the Queen stepping out of it. So what? Therefore the fact that some people responded so angrily doesn't paint a very good picture for some people's sense of perspective.

The 2008 Shelby GT500 on the other hand was really butchered. That review showcased real performance flaws (rightfully or wrongly as someone pointed out it wasn't a production model).

The most important thing is that Richard Hammond preferred it to an AMG. That's the greatest compliment anyone can pay - so guys - stop complaining, ya bunch of whiners! You're worse than Brits!

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Old 07-12-2010, 03:23 PM   #223
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+1 Still my favorite show also. When I saw the homepage my first thought was did my DVR record this; did the new season start last week...



True, except I would not even use the word "review"! It's just a car "show".
Sorry - good point

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? No fat jokes .
YEAH!!! THAT was suprising.

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I agree with you. The review was very sparse on details. I was expecting them to make fun of the interior quality which they didn't even mention. That's why I think it was actually a very good review of the Camaro SS. None of its true flaws were even mentioned.

That's why I'm filled with incredulity at some of the angry responses on this thread. They never said one real thing that was bad about the Camaro. The "bad stuff" was merely a matter of taste, such as you wouldn't find a Nobel Laureate or the Queen stepping out of it. So what? Therefore the fact that some people responded so angrily doesn't paint a very good picture for some people's sense of perspective.

The 2008 Shelby GT500 on the other hand was really butchered. That review showcased real performance flaws (rightfully or wrongly as someone pointed out it wasn't a production model).

The most important thing is that Richard Hammond preferred it to an AMG. That's the greatest compliment anyone can pay - so guys - stop complaining, ya bunch of whiners! You're worse than Brits!

The biggest complement of that show is them enjoying the car, to which Hamster did.
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Old 07-12-2010, 04:06 PM   #224
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Especially with some of the comments on this thread. No wonder he thinks Camaro owners are murderers. If you don't get Top Gear, don't comment on it. Saying that the Camaro vs AMG was a "silly comparison" shows your ignorance of what the show is about.
seriously.

Can you help explain it?
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Old 07-12-2010, 04:21 PM   #225
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Wow 10 pages of comments. I tried to get through most of it. On the video I thought it was funny how they said things you would never hear with a Camaro like getting the door for her Majesty. I think the Camaro is too cool for her anyway.
Clearly this was an unfair comparison, so what's the point? What does a Mercedes sedan have to do with a muscle car like Camaro? Do the Europeans even make a "muscle car"? And, who else but an overpaid banker bailed out by taxpayers could afford the AMG.
I like this show, but this segment was a bit goofy. A better comparison to the Mercedes would have been the Cadillac CTS.
Oh well, after living in the UK for 6 years, I though I was used to the USA bashing. Just don't mess with my car.
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