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Old 11-11-2008, 04:48 AM   #1
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Question re LS7 replacement. Will dealer credit for LS3 engine?

I am going to order a 2SS and then drop the LS7 in. I am going to buy the crate motor and have the dealership in stall it and the cam like it says on the Ls7 pic page on the home page. What happens to the LS3. Does it get deducted from my overall cost or do I have to sell it? I am prepared to pay the 14k crate motor + cam + install fee, but i want to know about the LS3 and how this is going to be handled.
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:02 AM   #2
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What dealer would do that? It's not a dealer-option so it'd have to be handled between you and them - as would the LS3 disposal.
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:49 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upheval View Post
I am going to order a 2SS and then drop the LS7 in. I am going to buy the crate motor and have the dealership in stall it and the cam like it says on the Ls7 pic page on the home page. What happens to the LS3. Does it get deducted from my overall cost or do I have to sell it? I am prepared to pay the 14k crate motor + cam + install fee, but i want to know about the LS3 and how this is going to be handled.
Once you buy the car, its up to you what to do with the LS3. I'm sure you won't have a problem selling it or maybe the dealership will give you something for it.
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:16 AM   #4
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I can't imagine and normal dealer will take the job of installing the LS7. Tom Henry (who tag ordered his 5th gen from) is looking into what will happen with crate motors.

Here's the Conversation we had with Mr. Henry (aka Little Weasel).

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Originally Posted by headpunter View Post
seriously cam + tune = 500+ hp.....the l92 heads on the ls3 are the ones people want gmpp wise so you cant get much better without a port and polish. aswell as the intake on the ls3 being excellent.


Weasel, how do you feel about putting a lsx 454 in mine =)
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Originally Posted by Little Weasel View Post
I need to do a little legal legwork before I say we are going to put crate motors in.........
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Originally Posted by gtahvit View Post
As in if I wanted saaaaaay an LS9, you might be able to do the install? What would the warranty outcome of that swap be?

Can you enlighten me...

I know this is way out in left field. But lets say I just wanted to lower the CR a bit for an Eaton2300. Would the LS9 or LSA internals be a better way to go???

Any input would be great. If you don't have the answers now I completely understand.
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As it stands now when we open the engine up and alter it that would void the warranty, the same goes for installing a crate motor. That is one of the issues i am checking into. I can't answer the internals question.
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:41 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by upheval View Post
What happens to the LS3. Does it get deducted from my overall cost or do I have to sell it? I am prepared to pay the 14k crate motor + cam + install fee, but i want to know about the LS3 and how this is going to be handled.
You eat it. Plain and simple. BTW the LS7 will cost you more than $14k. I get all my parts at cost + 10% and I can't even touch the LS7 for less than $14.5k. Bottom line is you'll need to try and sell your old LS3. Figure your LS3 will bring you less than what GM sells the LS3 for at their cost.
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:45 PM   #6
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You'll have to sell the LS3 by yourself.

Why do some of you guys think that a dealer wouldn't install the LS7?
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:49 PM   #7
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you also need parts for the dry sump, and i also believe the LS3 engine controller isnt compatible with the ls7 either.
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:17 PM   #8
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The question this all begs—why do you want to do this to a new Camaro?

If you have unlimited funds to do a swap and buy motors, then you might want to build a car from the ground up. Get a 1967 Camaro or get a used Corvette. They'll both be lighter than a new Camaro, so you'll get more benefit from the power. It's obvious that the goal of your swap isn't to make your car more functional. It is clearly about power. If you're going to have all of that power, then you should be able to enjoy the benefits. That's just my opinion. I'm not telling you to avoid the Camaro. I'm just wondering why you want to pour a small fortune into the 2010 Camaro rather than pouring it into an existing classic that is sure to continue increasing in value.
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:37 PM   #9
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You could get the same power with a blower and it would cost about 1/3 the cost of an LS7.
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClassicCarKid View Post
You'll have to sell the LS3 by yourself.

Why do some of you guys think that a dealer wouldn't install the LS7?
Because Joe Bobs chevrolet isnt first class car shop.
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Old 11-11-2008, 10:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClassicCarKid View Post
You'll have to sell the LS3 by yourself.

Why do some of you guys think that a dealer wouldn't install the LS7?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperFi View Post
Because Joe Bobs chevrolet isnt first class car shop.
And, if someone like Mr. Henry has to do some legwork before committing to installing crate motors. I'd certainly think twice about any ol' dealer. My guess is your typical dealer won't touch it. They aren't fabricators. Sure, they'll put an LS7 in a ZO6. Because they have a manual and parts and zero parts to fabricate. But to drop one in your Camaro... whole different beast.

Here is a great post by Radz that shows the potential complications of an LS9 crate motor swap. Largely, the same problems will exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by radz282003 View Post
I'd be careful as to tranny stuff, as it is my understanding (as is most of what I post) that the flywheel on LS9s have 9-bolts, not six, as in LS7s and "lesser" OEM LS-engines. Also, remember that the TR6060 behind engines in 'Vettes are for rear transaxles, therefore the cases are likely to be pretty different than you'd find in a CTS-V and Camaro. My point here, is you'd have to transfer any components you need from a 'Vette tranny to Camaro tranny and such (which could mean you'll need a different input and output shafts as they are likely to be different lengths.) The 'Vette has a torque tube and because of this, and factors above, the hydraulics may be different for the throwout bearing, so be aware of those possible changes too.

The rear end, allegedly, would probably handle the power, at least until you start trying to run on sticky tires. I'm sure there are going to be aftermarket (AM) components that will be offered to strengthen the case and such in the future like the have for GTOs and 'Vettes, but that's something I'd keep in mind.

I'd look into researching the differences in the fuel systems on the LSA/LS9 from LS2/LS3/etc. because the former have dual-mode fuel systems, or two-stage systems that run at different fuel pressures depending on boost, RPMs, load, etc. You may have to fabricate or piece together a fuel system in order to hook up to the fuel rails on the LS9. I'm sure the impedance of the injectors are such that unless you replicate the OEM dual-modes systems you could have tuning issues with getting the PCM to control the injectors correctly. I think I'd just try to replicate...

You could probably run the manifolds right off the crate motor but they probably won't match up to the head pipes on Camaro. You should be able to run V8 Camaro manifolds straight off the LS9 and be good, but you're exhaust will be restrictive, I'm sure. You could find some long tubes (LTs) if you aren't worried about emissions and run an AM exhaust back depending on what you're looking for power and sound-wise.

You'll have to come up with an intake system. From the pictures I've seen, the throttle body is offset to the driver's side a few inches, so you'll likely either have to modify or fabricate in intake system to get it to work.

Whew, that's all I can think to babble on about. This has been fun! I don't think you'll have a problem with under hood fitment since the intercooler and intake manifold are about as low as can be so it should fit better than an LSA assembly could, but that's going to have to be something you find out when you get there.

Good luck - I am SO jealous, but you, and the rest of the warriors out there deserve anything and everything you can get for your service. Please keep us posted on your progress

Be safe :flag2:
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Old 11-12-2008, 03:52 AM   #12
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I'm glad Gm brought ls7 concept to SEMA, but i'd rather see cars I might have a chance on getting from the factory.I'd love to have a 427 camaro, but the ls3 can be knocking on 500 hp's door for a lot less cash.
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Old 11-12-2008, 06:53 AM   #13
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I'm glad Gm brought ls7 concept to SEMA, but i'd rather see cars I might have a chance on getting from the factory.I'd love to have a 427 camaro, but the ls3 can be knocking on 500 hp's door for a lot less cash.
Well we already know what we are getting from the factory, so GM brought out something that can satisfy those who remain unsatisfied with available Horsepower. The LS3 can get to 500 with room to spare, but i think people that would go for the LS7 are looking for quite a bit more.
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:31 AM   #14
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^ Hence the soon to be available LS9 crate motor.
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:43 AM   #15
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Well we already know what we are getting from the factory, so GM brought out something that can satisfy those who remain unsatisfied with available Horsepower. The LS3 can get to 500 with room to spare, but i think people that would go for the LS7 are looking for quite a bit more.
And there are still plenty of options to go way over 500 hp with an LS3 if need be, that would probably still cost less than the $15k+ for an LS7 crate motor plus installation. The OP already said all he plans on is the motor and a cam. IMO unless you blew your LS3 up drag racing and need a complete new motor anyway it this is a colossal waste of money.

To answer the OP, they would not credit you anything IMO because it is still a used motor (even with no miles) because its a take off from a car. It is serialed to your car and so forth. Plus they could not sell it for full price, and dealers do not use or sell used parts (they will however use remanufactured parts if thats the only way to get them). That said you could likely ebay it for almost as much as one sells for brand new from GM so you really wouldn't take that much of a hit. That said as I mentioned above, you can go way faster for way less money just modding what is in there already....
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:41 AM   #16
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A lot of Valid points and I must say after some consideration, I will just get a 2SS and mod the Vette first then maybe a couple of Twins later. By then there should be some nice packages out from LPE and others. Thanks for the info all.
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Old 11-22-2008, 07:01 AM   #17
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A lot of Valid points and I must say after some consideration, I will just get a 2SS and mod the Vette first then maybe a couple of Twins later. By then there should be some nice packages out from LPE and others. Thanks for the info all.
You might as well watch what we have in store..our 427 2010 camaro will be done the first week we get it.

Engine already built and dynoed,just waiting for the car to arrive , yes LPE does all my engine work.


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Old 11-22-2008, 08:33 AM   #18
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You should be able to run a twin turbo kit on stock internals with low boost, and make alot more power than most poeple need. APS has been making TT kits for corvettes for some time now, and they put down over 600whp. This would be alot cheaper than trying to swap out an LS7. Plus you'll be making alot more power.
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:40 PM   #19
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I have an APS Twin turbo setup on my GTO. Its only been on there for 4000 miles or so, but i dont see the motor lasting too long. I have a very safe tune and still put out 565 rwhp. lol. I just don't see it lasting more than 10k miles or so. Of course, I would love it if it did.
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Old 11-22-2008, 01:14 PM   #20
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I have an APS Twin turbo setup on my GTO. Its only been on there for 4000 miles or so, but i dont see the motor lasting too long. I have a very safe tune and still put out 565 rwhp. lol. I just don't see it lasting more than 10k miles or so. Of course, I would love it if it did.
I've been out of the GM scene for some time now. Why do you think your motor will only last 10K miles? Also I'm sure you can get a bottom end built long block for well under 10K. I bet your car must be a blast to drive.
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Old 11-22-2008, 05:04 PM   #21
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I've been out of the GM scene for some time now. Why do you think your motor will only last 10K miles? Also I'm sure you can get a bottom end built long block for well under 10K. I bet your car must be a blast to drive.
I agree what would indicate to you that your motor won't last much more? Ticking noises?? (which are common in LS series motors) , blowby? ????
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Old 11-22-2008, 05:25 PM   #22
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I agree what would indicate to you that your motor won't last much more? Ticking noises?? (which are common in LS series motors) , blowby? ????
8 lbs of boost on a stock bottom end?
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Old 11-22-2008, 06:42 PM   #23
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8 lbs of boost on a stock bottom end?
8 lbs of boost on an aluminum block motor with 6 bolts mains.... Thats the stock bottom end. Is there anything to indicate you are doing any damage? If you look at the bottom end of factory boosted cars (Syclone, TTA, GN), they were no beefier, in fact even less, running more boost (stock was 17lbs). I see no reason unless you are consistently drag racing the car or just straight out beating the piss out of it that it should eat up that bottom end.

JMO.....
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:01 AM   #24
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The question this all begs—why do you want to do this to a new Camaro?
I might be able to answer that. Because nobody else has, and he'll be rare and original.

Sort of like people who mod FWD Grandprixs and swap motors into old commuter cars. Because nobody else does it, and it's original.

idk...
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:46 AM   #25
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you could also look at lingenfelter built ls3 it has 550hp and 550 tq and it's cheaper than a ls7 and you might be able to sale them your stock ls3 to help even things out just my 2 cents
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