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V8 and V6 Transmissions / Driveline (6L80 / 6L50 / TR6060 / AY6) Driveshafts | Differentials | Gears | Rearends | Clutch | Shifters

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Old 07-19-2010, 12:17 PM   #1
robertway

 
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Shifting into 1st VERY notchy with short throw

Want to see if anyone else is experiencing difficulty shifting into first. My scenario is this, I have a Barton Short Throw and when I am on the highway and have to slow down to a stop for a traffic light or any other time I am slowing down and going to throw it all the way down to 1st it requires A LOT of effort to get it into gear before the car comes to a complete stop. I mean I have to jam it up there and it is notchy on the way up. If I am at a dead stop it goes in with less effort but is still a bit notchy.

A secondary issue is the 1st to 2nd gear shift is still very notchy even after having had the Barton for 5-6 months and fast 1-2 shifts are sometimes missed because the stick gets "hung up" on the notch if I am not paying attention and slam it into the gear. 2-3 and 3-4, etc, etc, are fine and very smooth but the two scenarios I describe here have me considering either going back to the stock shifter or looking at replacing the entire assembly with an MGW.

I am not blaming the Barton here but need to point out that I have an aftermarket shifter and I know lots of folks have good feedback on the Barton and I do for the most part as well.

Thanks in advance for any insight....
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Old 07-19-2010, 12:24 PM   #2
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That's pretty normal...

The syncros help to allow you to put the tranny in any gear regardless of vehicle speed but at higher speeds it don't want to go in to 1st, and you'll have to force it...

Syncros can only compensate so much for speed.... I'm sure the short throw exaggerates the situation...

Now having said that, it should go into first say if you are going slower than 20mph??? I think.... I was taught not to put it in first until the car is completely stopped.... so I'm not sure about the max speed you can shift to 1st.
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Old 07-19-2010, 01:19 PM   #3
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sounds normal. Have you had a chance to see any videos Online as a reference?
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:03 PM   #4
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Wink Why are you doin' that?

In my experience with manual (what we used to call standard) transmissions, there is never a reason to down shift lower than second before coming to a near full stop. Give it a breather. Replacing brakes is easier and cheaper than
doin' a clutch job.
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivas View Post
Replacing brakes is easier and cheaper than
doin' a clutch job.
+1

That's what my dad said when he taught us to drive a manual.
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:51 PM   #6
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I know this is one thing that MGW was saying he took into account. He went as short as he felt he could but not so short that this became an issue.

I think GTAHVIT hit the nail on the head ..

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Old 07-19-2010, 08:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivas View Post
In my experience with manual (what we used to call standard) transmissions, there is never a reason to down shift lower than second before coming to a near full stop. Give it a breather. Replacing brakes is easier and cheaper than
doin' a clutch job.
I am not downshifting it and then letting the clutch out, it is just an observation of how hard it is to put it into 1st when coming to a stop. This is my first manual so some of the nuances are new to me and GTAHVIT's post above cleared some stuff up. As for downshifting, I never do so in order to slow down, coming to a light it is always letting her slow down while in gear until I am rolling at 10mph or so then I put the clutch in.

I appreciate you looking out for me though....

I still have a concern about the 1-2 shift being so notchy and having to really slam it back under hard acceleration to make sure I don't miss the shift.
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:08 PM   #8
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robert,

What I described is with the understanding that the clutch is in until the car comes to a stop... Not a down shift.


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Old 07-19-2010, 08:09 PM   #9
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How long have you had this installed and did it do this from the beginning?
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTAHVIT View Post
robert,

What I described is with the understanding that the clutch is in until the car comes to a stop... Not a down shift.
Understood, we're on the same page here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS View Post
How long have you had this installed and did it do this from the beginning?
Had it about six months and has been doing it all along, just figured it would eventually go away but obviously not and I am just getting around to figuring out what I want to do about it.
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:55 AM   #11
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i've never ever downshifted to 1st gear on stopping...sounds scary...my last car wouldnt even let me
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:07 AM   #12
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Mine is stock again, had to take my other out but it is the same for both stock and aftermarket. I do not go to 1st until stopped, no need to force it.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eggydoo View Post
i've never ever downshifted to 1st gear on stopping...sounds scary...my last car wouldnt even let me
Maybe I am not clear on this, I AM NOT PUTTING IT IN 1ST AND POPPING THE CLUTCH OUT... I'm not into launching over the steering wheel, just making the observation that it is a bitch to get it into the gate when above a certain speed when coming to a stop. This being my first manual I am not totally up to speed on the behavior of a manual under different conditions. Now knowing it is by design that it is hard to get the shifter into 1st under those conditions I am not concerned about it. Like I said earlier, the notchy shift from 1-2 is still a concern.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:37 PM   #14
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IMO aftermarket shifters shouldn't be more difficult to shift than the OEM. Generally aftermarket parts are built with better parts, and it's normally the install where the problem lays. Personally I like the OEM shifter, and feel they have come a long way in the last 40 years ...
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:27 PM   #15
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Gonna have to respectfully disagree with the no downshifting crowd. If rpms are properly matched as when doing heel/toe, the transmission should smothly go in to the lower gear, very common practice with accomplished manual transmission drivers.

Op, if it is difficlut at a stop, it may have an issue...
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jomo45 View Post
Gonna have to respectfully disagree with the no downshifting crowd. If rpms are properly matched as when doing heel/toe, the transmission should smothly go in to the lower gear, very common practice with accomplished manual transmission drivers.

Op, if it is difficlut at a stop, it may have an issue...
Once the car is stopped there is no problem, above 10mph or so it is definitely more difficult but now understanding it is "working as designed" I know there isn't an issue.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:54 PM   #17
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You should be almost stopped before putting it into first. Probably like 5 or less MPH. There's nothing wrong, don't force it. All manual trans cars I've owned are like this (2 '68 Camaros, 85 Volvo, 81 K-Car!, 89 Accord, 2010 Camaro).

Glad you figured it out...
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:35 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertway View Post
Once the car is stopped there is no problem, above 10mph or so it is definitely more difficult but now understanding it is "working as designed" I know there isn't an issue.
I tested this today for you to see, and I noticed the same...
It is super smooth when I was around 5-7mph.
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Old 08-27-2010, 07:57 PM   #19
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Just an update, the issue has been resolved thanks to Dave from Barton Industries reaching out to me, here is the full explanation and outcome

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...58#post2269558

Thanks for everyone's input...
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Old 08-28-2010, 08:18 AM   #20
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There are some other threads here about notchy 1-2 shifts and miss shifts. I have that problem with my Hurst. I wonder what they say about it? I think I'll contact them and see what they say! Thanks for the post!
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