|07-21-2010, 12:31 PM||#1|
Drives: 1967 Austin Healey 3000
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
GM not honoring my Camaro paint warranty; paint cracking and peeling all over the car
I bought my Black 2010 Camaro SS new, with 8 miles, in November of 2009 from John Miles Chevrolet in Conyers, GA. It is now July of 2010, and I have paint cracking and peeling all around the car. Marty Claypool, the Regional Representative for GM in Georgia, has looked at it twice and decided that GM will not repair the car. He has offered me a token cash settlement – less than half the cost estimates I’ve received from independent shops to perform the work – to have the car repainted myself, with the stipulation that no GM dealership do the work and that my warranty would be voided. This is entirely unacceptable.
The spots pictured are on the roof and trunk lid of the car; however there are dozens of spots like these as well as significant amounts of “trash” in the paint all over the car. Marty Claypool actually accused me of “parking under an acid truck”.
As a part of my research, PPG was kind enough to send a representative to my home to measure the thickness of my Camaro’s paint with a digital gauge. A typical factory paint job will be between 3.5 and 6.0 mils, with variation of no more than 0.5 mils all around the car. He took 60 individual readings with results between 6.7 and 9.5 mils. This is about twice what would be expected, and suggests that part (or all) of the car may have been painted more than once. It was his opinion that the observed variations in thickness would not be consistent with a robot factory paint job.
For clarity, I created a map of the paint thickness around the car. Notice the roof, which has 2.8mils of variation across the surface. Notice too that each side of the trunk lid was painted separately, resulting in overlap in the center – rather than in one side to side pass.
Furthermore, the PPG representative pointed out what appears to be overspray beneath the clear coat on the rear passenger quarter panel. Again, this would not be typical of a robot factory paint job.
Since my purchase, the Camaro has been washed fully and by hand every two weeks, with spot-washing in between for any bird or bug spots. It has also been hand waxed monthly. It parks among five other late model and classic cars, all of which are used regularly and experience the same general environmental and driving conditions. None of these vehicles shows any signs of issues seen on the Camaro.
As GM will not repair the paint, I am forced to use the Lemon Law. In Georgia, that involves offering GM a “Final Opportunity to Repair” which I have done, and which they declined. Then, I must send them a “Request to Repurchase or Replace” which I have done, and which they also declined. Following that, there is an arbitration process run by the Governor’s Office of Consumer Affairs that mediates – I have just requested arbitration from the state, and am waiting to hear back. The OCA here in Georgia has been very helpful, and I have consulted with them at each step to ensure their support, and the strength of my case. Still, having GM put me through this has been an enormous hassle and expense.
If you are considering purchasing a Camaro, I encourage you to wait. In the past ten years, I have purchased five new cars and have never been treated this poorly. The Camaro is an awesome car, and is well designed and generally well built – however, GM has not honored its warranty obligations to me. GM has done everything it can to avoid taking responsibility for problems in my car, and my experience with a GM vehicle has been miserable.
My GM case number: 71-841168110
My GM case representative: (866) 790-5700x41480
I’ve included a summary of my case below:
1. 11/12/2009. I purchased the vehicle new from John Miles Chevrolet in Conyers, GA with 8 miles showing.
2. 11/24/2009. Brought vehicle to John Miles at 813 miles for “gurgling” noise within dashboard, malfunctioning windows, burning smell and inspection of “trash” in paint by service manager. No loaner is provided. Vehicle returned 11/24/2009.
3. 12/23/2009. Brought the vehicle to John Miles for follow-up inspection of “trash” in the paint. Repair of these areas was scheduled for January. Vehicle is also repaired for “gurgle” per TAC and inspected for clunking in the front suspension when reversing. After a two hour wait, a Hyundai Accent is provided as a loaner. Vehicle returned 12/31/2009.
4. At the recommendation of service manager at John Miles, scheduled paint repairs were cancelled – in his opinion, work performed would be worse than what was already on the car.
5. 4/26/2010. Brought the vehicle to Rick Hendrick Chevrolet in Duluth, GA for inspection of “trash”, excessive paint chipping and etching patterns in paint. Mark Henderson (service manager) personally inspects and concludes that observed chipping and etching is abnormal, and we agree to watch the situation and take action should it get any worse. Vehicle is also repaired for low air conditioning refrigerant levels and poor A/C performance. No loaner is provided. Vehicle returned 4/26/2010.
6. Paint begins to crack and blister on multiple panels; large chips are observed on the roof.
7. 5/17/2010. Brought the vehicle to Rick Hendrick at the request of Mark so that Marty Claypool, regional GM representative, may inspect. Vehicle air conditioning performance is still poor. Marty “does not see” any cracking of the paint. No loaner is provided. Vehicle returned 5/21/2010. While at Rick Hendrick, both passenger wheels are curbed by dealership.
8. 5/21/2010. Created case #71-832593974 with General Motors. Ariel is my representative. Requested escalation.
9. 5/25/2010. Ariel calls back, tells me Marty considered it again, and still will do nothing. I ask again for escalation.
10. 5/27/2010. Ariel calls, tells me she’s escalating the case and will call back on 5/28/2010.
11. 6/07/2010. Having not heard from Ariel, I call and leave her a message.
12. 6/10/2010. Having still not heard from Ariel, I call and leave another message.
13. 6/17/2010. Having still not heard from Ariel, I call and leave yet another message.
14. 6/17/2010. I call the GM line and get Angela. She informs me the case is closed and that GM will not repair the defective paint. I inform that I plan to pursue the Lemon Law.
15. 6/17/2010. “Final Opportunity to Repair” sent to GM in accordance with the Georgia Lemon Law.
16. 6/18/2010. Ariel calls to tell me the case has been closed.
17. 6/18/2010. Mark and Marty call and request a re-inspection on 6/21/2010.
18. 6/21/2010. Brought the vehicle to Rick Hendrick for Marty Claypool to re-inspect. Mark produces signed vehicle check-in paperwork from 5/17/2010 on which is noted (in different color pen and handwriting) that wheels were curbed at the time when I dropped the car off on 5/17/2010. After some argument, he admits to having added that note after the fact. Commits to repair the wheels. Loaner is provided. Vehicle returned 6/24/2010.
19. 6/21/2010. Sonia from GM calls with a new case number #71-841168110, identify the service visit of 6/21/2010 as their “final opportunity to repair” under the Georgia Lemon Law.
20. 6/23/2010. Sonia called, she cannot reach the dealership or Marty – wants to know if I have heard anything? She commits to call back on 6/25/2010 to discuss outcome of inspection.
21. 6/23/2010. Marty this time does see cracking in the paint and suggests I “parked it under an acid truck”. In his opinion, entire car will need to be repainted and this is not a manufacturing defect. He is “very reluctant to offer anything at all”. Does offer a total of $3,500 as a settlement for repaint of car and repair of wheels – with stipulation that vehicle warranty is voided and I release GM from arbitration, lemon law and buyback. Also stipulates that no GM body shop will repaint the car.
22. 6/24/2010. Vehicle inspected by Decatur Paint and Body
23. 6/25/2010. Vehicle inspected by Kelly Auto Body
24. 6/26/2010. Vehicle inspected by Sentry Auto Body
25. 6/28/2010. PPG sends their regional expert to perform a visual inspection of the vehicle.
26. 6/29/2010. PPG sends their regional expert to my home with a digital paint thickness meter. More than 60 readings are taken, all of which are individually photographically documented and then placed on a flat diagram of the vehicle (attached). Photos of each reading physically being taken are available as well.
a. Readings are between 6.7mils and 9.5mils, with significant variance of 2.8mils – equivalent almost to a full paint job – across the roof.
b. Overspray seen over several square feet of the rear passenger quarter panel.
c. Overlapping bands seen in spray pattern on trunk, with high points along the center of the surface.
d. Four significant pieces of trash observed in upper/roof portion of the vehicle alone.
27. 7/14/2010. Still have not heard from Sonia.
|07-21-2010, 12:37 PM||#3|
Drives: 2010 inferno orange 2SS
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: elkhart indiana
all i can say is wow
and on all the documenting
interested to hear more
|07-21-2010, 12:40 PM||#4|
"Back in Black"
Drives: '10 1LT/RS Black w/Silver Stripes
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Hmm... the way all that's written up it's hard to read what you're doing there. I see a lot of back and forth on your part (you're worried about the paint but then get this fixed... you're worried about the paint... but get this fixed). Plus there's a gap of 4 months in there where I wouldn't have stopped if I were you.
As far as the paint meter is concerned... it's clear that there's varying degrees of thickness that's for sure. Someone obviously messed up and if there's trash in the paint I can see why that would cause the bubbling.
Best I can say is you're on the right track with the lemon deal. They're going to need to fix it or get you a new car. Someone clearly messed up and needs to accept responsibility.
On a side note there's a lot of scratches on that first pic... you weren't using one of those brush car washes were you?
To the Jerkoff in SW Denver Driving the Black Camaro:
Quit making us look bad by driving like a tool and cutting people off (my wife included)!
|07-21-2010, 12:51 PM||#5|
ARMY of one.
Drives: 2011 Black SS/RS
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Houston Tx. from Lafayette La.
Second picture looks pretty "flat". No reflection or shine. What area is that from?
Other that the assanine "acid truck" comment. I do not see the reason they voided your Warranty and refuse to cover this under warranty.
Something does not sound right. From my interpretation and lack of info it looks like GM suspects you repainted your car.
|07-21-2010, 12:52 PM||#6|
Join Date: Apr 2010
Sounds like the dealer may have done something to the car and repainted it. Dealers do this all the time and are usually not required to disclose it unless it reaches a certain dollar amount.
I'd look into the history of the car with the dealer. They may end up being liable.
|07-21-2010, 01:54 PM||#7|
Drives: 2001 T/A, 2010 2SS/RS, 2006 Z06
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lexington, KY
I have a 2001 Trans Am WS6 still in my driveway. These cars were notorious for the roof bubbles in the paint. And there was even a Technical Service Bulletin issued on the issue, which instructs the repair shops exactly what steps to take for repair. After calling and getting tossed around from one customer service person to another: Case closed, and reponed: etc... for 8 months, I finally got them to agree to pay for 1/2 the cost.
I placed it in the GM paint repair center, and when it was complete they denied ever making that offer. Sticking me with the $1,000.00 repair bill. Do not believe anything they say, get it in writing, Or they will screw you out of it. I like GM products, and I Also have a ZO6 here to prove it. However, the customer service poeple are just a joke, Do not belive anything they tell you. GET IT IN WRITING UP FRONT!!!!
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|07-21-2010, 01:55 PM||#8|
Drives: 09 Vette GT1, 06 350Z, 82 MSE
Join Date: Jul 2009
I agree...sounds like the dealer did something to this car. Even a factory paint job won't be as bad as you describe. Was the car dealer traded by chance? Sometimes you see this as a way to "wash" the liability of disclosing paint work done by a dealer.
I know you want GM to do something about this...but after seeing what the paint rep said...I'd say you should be investigating the dealer a little closer. The paint measurements just aren't "right" for a factory job...and the factory isn't going to respray a whole car like you've described. If they did decide to repaint, it wouldn't be as crappy as what your paint quality appears.
|07-21-2010, 01:56 PM||#9|
You've done a great job with the mapping and documentation. Get stuff in writing and don't give up.
|07-21-2010, 02:11 PM||#10|
Drives: 2012 GT500
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: McKinney Texas
I hope you get what you deserve. I can't believe the paint job that is coming out of the factories with these cars. I have heard a lot of people complain about the paint including myself. I have clear coat runs, fish eyes, and dirt either under the paint or under the clearcoat ...it is pisspoor for sure ..
|07-21-2010, 02:25 PM||#11|
I have had a similar problem with GM. I called a lawyer that specialized in lemon law. It took a few months but it all worked out in my favor.
So far I have had very good luck with Ford, Dodge cars and the dealers selling them. After 5 brand new GM purchases I can say I am done with them.
Good luck to you.
|07-21-2010, 02:31 PM||#12|
knows 2 facts about ducks
Drives: ...and they're both wrong
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The HMS Invincible
I had problems with my brakes that GM wouldn't fix. The solution is 3 words. "Better Business Bureau." Call them, open up a case and they will take care of the rest. I'll tell you now after they get involved Chevrolet will be begging you to let them paint it.
|07-21-2010, 02:36 PM||#13|
Retired, Cancer Survivor
Drives: 12 CAMARO, 15 Impala, 07 Colorado
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: East Tennessee
Sounds like a couple crappy dealers to me and i wonder if that guy was really a GM rep or someone that works at the dealership acting like he was.... For one I have never been refused at any GM dealership a loaner car if they had to keep mine more than a few hours for work. (different cars over several years), Also the paint thickness should have been checked and verified by the "GM rep" that way he would know someone had repainted the car. The PPG rep has verified that this was NOT a factory paint job, so GM more than likely would not honor the warrenty on it anyway. I am afraid you will probably have to resort to legal acton to get this solved against the selling dealership. there has to be a papertrail somewhere showing this car was repainted...
Cancer's a bitch! Enjoy life while you can! LIVE, LOVE, DRIVE...CAMARO!
The Bird is the word!
|07-21-2010, 02:44 PM||#14|
Drives: 2010 RY 2SS with Custom Stripes
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Jennings, La.
IMHO it looks as though the dealership or someone repainted the car. I think anyone can see that. With that being said it also looks as if the prep work wasn't done properly. Up to almost 10 mills of paint in some locations makes me believe that the legal action that you have taken and the documentation will result in a judgement going your way. If they made you an offer of about half of what your estimates are then they admitted some sort of guilt and that will also hurt them if it gets nasty. Those extra mils of paint that you got were left off of alot of other Camaro's!!! Good Luck.
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