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Old 11-13-2008, 10:01 PM   #1
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"Our" Economy

I posted this in another thread but I really want to hear what people have to say, fire away!


So I am sitting here reading this thread and thinking about this madness we call the economy. Most of us agree that the economy is not at its best right now and there is alot of problems with our big three. Then it struck me...... I am part of our Big 3's problem. I BOUGHT A BMW.... What if I would of bought a car from the big 3? What if we all bought a car from the big 3? We bitch and moan about the economy yet many of us do nothing to change it. Maybe we should realllllly start looking at our purchases a little more carefully before we fork over the cash. This economy has really got me thinking..... WHAT CAN I DO DIFFERENT??????? I think I am going to sale my BMW and buy a vehicle from the big 3. Hey I am only one person but its a start. Maybe we can change our economy and not have to wait for our government to figure it out for us. What if each one of us convinced 1 family member or 1 friend to buy from the big 3 instead of foreign? Maybe its to far fetched but damn it I am willing to give it a try.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:15 PM   #2
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:39 PM   #3
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My father retired from Chrysler, my brother from GM, my former in laws from GM, my uncles from Ford, Chrysler and GM, and more friends and neighbors than I could ever even count up (fortunately I was the red headed step child and went into law enforcement).
But buying American has always been our motto for most in this area. Neither I nor anyone in my family would ever have even considered buying a foreign car no matter what the price, and most of my current neighbors feel the same way. I was shocked when I went to the west coast and saw all the foreign cars on the road!
So what went wrong with the rest of the country???? Sure the big 3 built some losers....but so did Toyota, Renault, Honda etc. What about all the years when Hondas and Toyotas all warped their aluminum cylinder heads if you looked at them wrong? The consumers just sucked it up, paid the repairs and kept whining about the quality of the American car they had 5 years before their Honda. The American consumer has not been the best educated consumer...in fact they have been brainwashed into believing the American products are inferior and its going to come back and haunt the entire economy. Lets hope its not too late. I love my CTS and my GMC pickup and would'nt take any foreign car over them for any reason. Everyone has to chip in and do their part to help solve our current problems.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:48 PM   #4
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Nothing pisses me off more than to see a person with Vet. tag pull in to my dealership for service driving a Toyota.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:49 PM   #5
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I have never owned a anythin but domestic.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:04 PM   #6
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The mainstream car magazines have for decades been praising Japanese imports for their economy and reliability and European imports for their engineering and performance, while denigrating virtually every American car (other than 'vette and Viper). They justify this bashing with the lame claim that their criticisms make American automobile manufacturers improve their quality. Now they are starting to acknowledge good American products (such as the Chevy Malibu), but are continuing to compare them to the imports they have crowned as best in class. It is now too late for the American carmakers to regain sales lost to Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes and Audi. The car magazines have done too good a job convincing the American public that imports are good and American cars are bad. The sharp styling of the new Camaro may steal a few sales from entry level BMWs, but the only way American car manufacturers can truly regain lost sales is if the American car magazines would praise American vehicles while also heavily criticizing the imports. And this will never happen.

We need to tell every decent American: Do not buy a Camry or Accord - buy a Malibu instead. Do not buy a BMW 3-series coupe - buy a Camaro instead. Do not buy a Porsche Boxster - buy a Corvette instead. (etc.) I have never owned an import and I never will.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:17 PM   #7
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Agree. I do everything I can to tell people that American cars are better now than ever. My brother-in-law just bought an Accord and I have done nothing but tell him how bad the reviews have been on his new car every chance I get(see edmundsonline and motortrend). He does also have a Hummer and an Escalade but still. People for some reason still believe the Jap cars are better than they really are while those of us who really appreciate cars for more than just transportation know different. it would be a shame to let GM go under now when they are finally just getting their sh__ together and building world class cars.

It is to bad they have let the UAW control their business over tha last 30 years instead of them controlling the UAW. Not sure how all the foreign car companies have been able to tame the Unions but they sure have been able to keep them from telling them how to do business.

What GM really needs is some kind of suda bankruptcy where the goverment guarantees to keep them flush with cash while they rid themselves of all of these Union strangleholds on their business structure as well as lighten the load on their dealership count. This will over the long run along with the quality of cars they have been putting out almost guarantee their survival into the long haul.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:37 PM   #8
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In contrast I have never owned anything but European. However I havent ever purchased new, its all been used from a member of the community.

I will be purchasing a new car in the next year, and I have a wide pallet of options, however Im am 90% at getting a Camaro. The other 9% is a G8, and the 1% is european, in which it would be used.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:15 AM   #9
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All my vehicles have been Chevrolet.

My mother has only owned GM/Chrysler/Ford vehicles since the mid-80's (she did have Datsun and old VW Bug in the 70's).

And my father has owned GM/C/F with the exception of that Datsun, VW and an Eclipse he bought 3 years ago. But he did decide the Eclipse was to small and traded it for a Charger that he loves.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:49 AM   #10
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:57 AM   #11
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All of my vehicles in the last 40 years have been GM with the exception of two used VW "beetles" years ago and my first car which was a used Ford. I've bought mostly Chevy with a sprinkling of Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and GMC. It is sad when sitting at a stoplight and looking at the vehicles around me and seeing more imports than domestic vehicles.
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Last edited by wildpaws; 11-14-2008 at 06:57 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 11-14-2008, 07:39 AM   #12
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It is great to buy a vehicle from the Big 3 but I would also recommend to make sure you buy one that is made in North America. Preferably USA but I love Canada so I have no problem supporting them and a stronger Mexico helps make a stronger a USA.
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Old 11-14-2008, 07:57 AM   #13
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I have NEVER owned anything but a domestic nor would I unless the big 3 go down, then I wouldn't have a choice. Most have been GM, I owned 1 ford I purchased used from my brother-in-law (that car was the biggest POS ever!). Mostly Chevy starting with a 1973 Chevy van. My wife had a Renault when we were married, we had it about 2 months! The list:

1973 Chevy Van, 1976 Chevy Nova, 1979 Dodge Aspen, 1987 Chevy Cavalier Z-24, 1985 Chevy S-10, 1991 Chevy Lumina, 1992 Oldsmobile Cutlass International, 1993 Chevy Z-24, 1994 Chevy S-10, 1996 Baretta Z-26, 1998 Olds Bravada, 1999 Olds Bravada, 1999 Chevy Truck, 2000 Olds Bravada, 1992 Chevy Z-24, 2002 Chevy Cavalier, 2003 Chevy Suburban, 2004 Chevy 3/4 T Diesel truck, 1999 Camaro Z-28, 1967 Chevy Camaro, 2006 Chevy HHR, 2008 Chevy Surburban, 2008 Chevy HHR and soon to be a 2011 Chevy Camaro SS.

The Ford POS was in there somwhere between the 1994 S-10 truck and the 1996 Chevy Baretta.

We currently have the 1967 Camaro, 1992 Z-24, 1999 Z-28, 2004 Silverado, 2008 Surburban and the 2008 HHR.

Nothing against foreign drivers, but I do feel we need to be patriotic and buy American!
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:01 AM   #14
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The best vehicles I've owned have been American...the worst vehicles I've owned have been American. At the end of the day, it's still: BUY AMERICAN!

Last edited by AZZ28; 11-14-2008 at 08:27 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shnomac77 View Post
I posted this in another thread but I really want to hear what people have to say, fire away!


So I am sitting here reading this thread and thinking about this madness we call the economy. Most of us agree that the economy is not at its best right now and there is alot of problems with our big three. Then it struck me...... I am part of our Big 3's problem. I BOUGHT A BMW.... What if I would of bought a car from the big 3? What if we all bought a car from the big 3? We bitch and moan about the economy yet many of us do nothing to change it. Maybe we should realllllly start looking at our purchases a little more carefully before we fork over the cash. This economy has really got me thinking..... WHAT CAN I DO DIFFERENT??????? I think I am going to sale my BMW and buy a vehicle from the big 3. Hey I am only one person but its a start. Maybe we can change our economy and not have to wait for our government to figure it out for us. What if each one of us convinced 1 family member or 1 friend to buy from the big 3 instead of foreign? Maybe its to far fetched but damn it I am willing to give it a try.
I think about this same thing very often. Sort of like voting - I live in New York, so my vote really doesn't matter, BUT, sometimes, one voice can get the ball rolling.

Personally, I have never owned anything but an American car. For the most part, my family (extended included) is the same way.

But my friends are a totally different story. With the exception of a used Corvette, I am the only American car among us. In fact, a couple whom I'm friends with just traded in both of their Toyota Corollas for Camrys.

Not sure where I heard this, might have been here, but it was a good bumper sticker:

"Still have a job? Keep buying foreign."
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:11 AM   #16
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I bought my wife a new 2008 Accord EX-L last fall, paid $29,000. Nice car and love the toys. But it's been in for warranty work the exact same number of times as our old "beater" 2001 PT Cruiser.

It has more rattles/noises than the PT and my vette. I would have purchased a new Malibu but it didn't come with Nav.

Never again. The grass isn't greener and I will never ever believe what car magazines say. Buying a Honda was billed as if it was designed and built by GOD.
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:16 AM   #17
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The general public don't understand how serious this problem is. If the big 3 fall not only 3 million jobs will be lost, but all import car will cost bubble do to no completion.
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:25 AM   #18
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Import cars will not raise in price - they still have to compete with each other. We like to group the "Jap" cars all together, and "BMW" seems to be ubiquidous with anything european, but if the big three were to all fail, there would still be at least 15 mainstream car companies out there doing business in North America. Hardly a monopoly.
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:29 AM   #19
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I saw an even better bumper sticker:

"Hungry? Out of Work? Eat your import!"

As for the unions, federal laws give them mind boggling protections and they will continue to drag down this country until they are all dismantled. Their only purpose is to ensure that a company has to pay higher than market value for labor. This is good for those few protected union guys, bad for businesses, and bad for America.

Unions were created to protect workers from bad conditions, long hours, etc. We now have OSHA, and other laws that solve all of these problems. Get rid of the unions (and the ridiculous guarantees they have won), and the big 3 will finally have a fair fight against foreign companies, and more cars will be built in the US (and the money will stay here instead of going to Japan).
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:20 AM   #20
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First off, let me say that I will be ordering a 2010 Camaro 2LT RS. Got my deposit ready and everything, but I'm waiting until to see what comes of this bailout until I place the order.

That said, I have owned both "domestic" (one made in Canada, owned by an American company) and "import" (two made in America, owned by Japanese companies) cars, and I will say there is a difference in quality. Unfortunately, it doesn't favor the Big 3.

My favorite car was a then-new '99 Firebird V6 that I had in high school. A very hot car, but plagued by one electronic issue after another. I was constantly replacing fog light lamps. Both window motors had to be replaced. My Monsoon stereo console had to be replaced. My alternator went out after 30,000 miles. It was certainly a love-hate relationship.

That said, I traded it in for a Nissan Frontier crew-cab truck in '04. Great truck, not one problem. Traded that in for an '06 Civic when I started commuting longer to work. Again, not one problem with this car either. While both of these Jap vehicles performed well and held up, they had no "soul". I used/use them to get to & from work, there was/is no real "joy" in driving them.

When I saw the 5th gen Camaro concept, I was in love. It brought me back to my days as a teenager yearning for an American muscle car.

But frankly, I'm concerned. Why is it that our tax dollars should reward incompetence in the marketplace, even when it's "American"? I would be much more for this bailout if it included clauses to renegotiate the absurd UAW contracts that are draining the life out of the Big 3. Let's face it, lack of innovation and quality control, combined with letting the unions get anything they want, have helped bring the Big 3 to the brink of extinction. Yet, everyone here is for throwing more money at the problem?

Of course the Democrats want to bailout the Big 3 as it is right now, because they're lobbied by their union leader buddies and this vicious cycle of ridiculous benefit packages will only continue. The model for future success would not be put in place if we just hand over billions of dollars to a company that would still be making the same mistakes.

I want to see a Camaro in my garage as much as the next guy here, but to blindly trust this notion of a bailout is not wise, unless it has concessions put into place first. As it is with any problem, merely throwing more money at it will not solve the crisis... but certainly, correcting the bad behavior will.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:23 AM   #21
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don't get why there isn't a seperate dissussion board for the economy and gm. None of this is related to the 5th gen like the description under 5th gen camaro general disscusions says.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:26 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by WolfpackRedCamaro View Post
First off, let me say that I will be ordering a 2010 Camaro 2LT RS. Got my deposit ready and everything, but I'm waiting until to see what comes of this bailout until I place the order.

That said, I have owned both "domestic" (one made in Canada, owned by an American company) and "import" (two made in America, owned by Japanese companies) cars, and I will say there is a difference in quality. Unfortunately, it doesn't favor the Big 3.

My favorite car was a then-new '99 Firebird V6 that I had in high school. A very hot car, but plagued by one electronic issue after another. I was constantly replacing fog light lamps. Both window motors had to be replaced. My Monsoon stereo console had to be replaced. My alternator went out after 30,000 miles. It was certainly a love-hate relationship.

That said, I traded it in for a Nissan Frontier crew-cab truck in '04. Great truck, not one problem. Traded that in for an '06 Civic when I started commuting longer to work. Again, not one problem with this car either. While both of these Jap vehicles performed well and held up, they had no "soul". I used/use them to get to & from work, there was/is no real "joy" in driving them.

When I saw the 5th gen Camaro concept, I was in love. It brought me back to my days as a teenager yearning for an American muscle car.

But frankly, I'm concerned. Why is it that our tax dollars should reward incompetence in the marketplace, even when it's "American"? I would be much more for this bailout if it included clauses to renegotiate the absurd UAW contracts that are draining the life out of the Big 3. Let's face it, lack of innovation and quality control, combined with letting the unions get anything they want, have helped bring the Big 3 to the brink of extinction. Yet, everyone here is for throwing more money at the problem?

Of course the Democrats want to bailout the Big 3 as it is right now, because they're lobbied by their union leader buddies and this vicious cycle of ridiculous benefit packages will only continue. The model for future success would not be put in place if we just hand over billions of dollars to a company that would still be making the same mistakes.

I want to see a Camaro in my garage as much as the next guy here, but to blindly trust this notion of a bailout is not wise, unless it has concessions put into place first. As it is with any problem, merely throwing more money at it will not solve the crisis... but certainly, correcting the bad behavior will.
I agree with alot of what your saying except blaming the unions. The suits at the big three singed those contracts. Just like they signed off on cars for years that were not up to snuff damaging the Big 3 reputation and now when they offer many top quality cars and trucks they are living under a bad reputation. At the end of the day all of the "mistakes" you point out are a fault of their leadership not the unions, not the buyers, and not the government.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:28 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by SdustinK View Post
don't get why there isn't a seperate dissussion board for the economy and gm. None of this is related to the 5th gen like the description under 5th gen camaro general disscusions says.
There will not be a 5th gen that is available to the public if the GM and the economy are not fixed, so it has everything to do with 5th gen camaro general disscusions
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:33 AM   #24
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how's that true when on that podcast there were two people from gm saying the camaro will still go in production on feb 16
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:33 AM   #25
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^^^ There's blood on the hands of both the execs and the union leaders. I seem to recall strikes and threats of strikes during the last couple rounds of negotiations.

And the gov't may not have had a big share of the problem, but they will be exposed to be completely incompetent if they don't do this the right way.
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