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Camaro Price | Ordering | Tracking | Dealers Discussions Discuss pricing and ordering experiences.

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Old 07-23-2010, 11:36 PM   #1
DFinch
 
Drives: 2011 2LT/RS CGM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4
Looking for honest, expert opinions...

Apologies in advance for my first post becoming a wall of text. Please bear with me.

Yes, you can start with "you screwed up". I know I did. The question becomes, how much should I have to pay to fix it? Here's my story:

I decided about a month ago that I was going to reward my "post divorce" self with a Camaro. I planned out a 6 week time period to do some research and figure out what I wanted. I had a basic idea (most likely 2LT in silver/black or cyber grey and probably used), but hadn't made a final decision between LT/SS or trim levels.

I make good money and can afford any of the models, but I'm in the last stages of digging myself out of divorce debt and want to keep my cash flow up for the next couple of years to build some savings. With that in mind, I had a goal of financing somewhere between $20,000-$24,000 with $5000-$7000 down and an almost worthless trade-in ($1500 kbb trade).

I stopped by a local dealership just to look at, and potentially drive, some of the models. I had no intention of buying, and you probably know what happened next. I walked onto the lot straight to a used 2010 cyber grey 1LT with moon roof. Long story short, we made a deal for $26,500 putting me at exactly $20,000 financed at 3.06% and a monthly payment of $378.

I had talked to the sales rep and the sales manager about wanting the 2LT and the upgrades that come with it. We talked about my intention to upgrade those on my own. The sales manager specifically talked to me about who I banked through (a credit union) because he wanted to beat their rates (which he did, by a lot). No mention of the preferred pricing for credit union members on new cars, no mention that what I was planning on upgrading (BA audio, bluetooth) can't be done, at least not easily.

They did make a point of telling me they have a "30 day satisfaction guarantee". That becomes important.

After getting the car home, I started reading here and other forums and doing all of the things I should have done before making that purchase. I discovered the issues with the audio and bluetooth/OnStar that many have discussed here. The next day, when my sales guy called to check on me, I expressed my disappointment. He said "no problem, I'll find you what you want within the 30 days and we'll get you taken care of".

A week later he called me and told me I needed to stop by the dealership. I did, and he introduced me to a fully loaded cyber grey 2011 2LT/RS with moon roof. The exact car I would have ordered, but didn't think I could afford. We sat down anyway to go over numbers. They offered me full price back on my car, but set the sale of the new car at $3000 over MSRP. The difference was too great, so I passed.

That night, I was reading this forum and discovered the credit union preferred pricing plan. I have to say, I was frustrated. They knew the first night that I belonged to a credit union, and if I had known (my fault) or they had said something (yeah, right), I would have bought new. Still, since they'd just offered me full price back on my car, I went back in the next day with my preferred pricing authorization number.

I flagged down the sales manager from the day before and asked if they honored the preferred pricing for qualifying buyers. He said "absolutely". I told him that I had an authorization number, and at that price I was ready to buy the 2011. He said "Well, the satisfaction guarantee program doesn't apply to preferred pricing. You only get the satisfaction guarantee if you pay full retail for the replacement car".

He then offered me $700 under KBB trade in for my car ($23,200). The difference, ironically enough, was exactly the same as his previous offer of full price back and $3000 over MSRP for the new one. I walked, and put a call in to my sales rep (it was his day off that day). He called me back and set up another attempt with a different sales manager and said the GM would be overseeing the transaction. He told me they had worked on it during the day, they had an offer to make, but I had to come in to discuss it.

I went down there, they stalled me for about an hour, then the new sales manager showed up and set an offer on the table of $23,600 trade with everything else the same. They made me drive down there on my day off so they could bump their offer by $400.

They claimed emphatically that they were losing money on a preferred pricing sale. He showed me a printout that he claimed showed a $500 loss on the sale ("dealer commission" was $32000 and "sale commission" was $31,500). He claimed they get no holdbacks and GM has shortened the gap between invoice and MSRP to the point they make no money. I pointed out that dealer cost is still below invoice and he claimed that wasn't true. He claimed it would cost about $1300 to "re-certify" my return. He told me they had made $2000 on my original purchase. I told him they were going to put it right back in the same spot it was sitting 14 days ago and sell it again, and in the meantime sell a new car and make a happy lifelong customer.

I told him there was no way I could stomach eating a $4400 loss on a 14 day old purchase, that I was within their 30 day guarantee, and that nobody had said anything about restrictions on that guarantee. I asked for a written copy of the guarantee and he said it was a verbal guarantee they offer to help customers feel secure in their purchase. I offered to give up $1000 on the return (to $25,500) and to add $2000 more in cash. He didn't budge. With me dropping to $25,500, and him standing fast at $23,600, we were stuck at a $1900 difference and he eventually got up and walked. I told him I was shocked he was willing to give up a lifelong customer (including service work) for $1900 today especially with their "guarantee", but he said "I'm already 'all in' on this and I can't move anymore".

So there I am. If I had waited, I'd be driving that car right now. My numbers would have been:

$31140 preferred price (actually $30643 but they claim to have added $500 worth of "extras" like floor mats...educate me on that trick, too).
-$7000 down
-$1500 trade = $22,640 financed w/ trade in

Now, it would be:

$31140 preferred price
-$23,600 return
-$2000 additional down (original down was $5000) = $25540

I eat my original trade-in and add $2900 for a total loss of $4400.

At this point my plan is to drive and enjoy my car until next year and then start looking again. I admit I'm tempted to just buy the new one and get it over with, but I just can't stomach the loss. I wish I'd never bought that first car because I'd be in the fully loaded 2011 right now. Grrrrrrr.

Time to give up? Thoughts? Especially interested in the dealer/sales point of view.
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Old 07-24-2010, 11:31 PM   #2
snowtrill
 
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Drives: 2011 RJT 2SS/RS M6- Rogue
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
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I'm not a dealer but I will give it shot.

If it were me, I would wait at this point. The dealer has his money and to continue is only going to give him more of your money.

I assume that the upgrades you wanted to do to the car will cost less than $4000 somewhere other than that dealership. Use this site to figure out what mods you want to complete, what impact they will have to warranty and any state emissions tests if any. Order the parts you want or find a shop that will install them and enjoy your car.

On a non-car note - coming out of a divorce does cloud things a bit. Even waiting a few months before making a decision won't make a big difference in the numbers. There are more Camaros being built every day so you have not lost the opportunity to get exactly what you want. You might also find a different dealer you will be able to trust more.

Good luck
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Old 07-24-2010, 11:34 PM   #3
fastkevman
 
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Drives: 2011 Victory Red 1SS/RS M6
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Location: PA
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Personally, I would just drive what you have and trade it in next year for a 2012, which is supposedly getting major interior upgrades and probably other updates.
I also would try to find a dealer that cares about good customer relations.
The BA stereo is decent but, nowhere near as good as aftermarket systems so just by upgrading your speakers would put you on par with a BA stereo or better....and "yes" I do have the BA stereo in my car so it's an opinion based on actual experience.

Enjoy your ride, it's still a fantastic car and it's not the car's fault the dealer sucks!
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Old 07-24-2010, 11:52 PM   #4
DFinch
 
Drives: 2011 2LT/RS CGM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4
Thank you for your input.

It really bothers me that I could be in exactly the car I want, but I put myself in a hole because I pulled the trigger before I had done all my homework and I got suckered by a fake "30-day return". I've tried for 3 days to get a written copy and they can't seem to come up with one. I'm convinced they use this little lie to build confidence in the deal, and to get past the GM 3-day/150 mile return policy. I would have taken mine back on day 2 but they told me there was no hurry because I had 30 days. That essentially stuck me with the car. The fact that GM had their "60-day return" promotion going last year didn't help, because it bolstered my confidence that what they were saying was legitimate.

I've had 2 Sales Reps and 3 Sale Managers confirm the existence of this "30-day customer satisfaction guarantee". The last Sales Manager even said "Our 30-day *money back* guarantee is a great program, but you can only use it if you pay full retail after returning the first vehicle". I personally think it borders on fraud.

My fault for not researching out the Credit Union authorization first, my fault for not getting the return policy in writing. The car I bought had two of the major things I wanted (CGM and moon roof) and I figured I could add leather, bluetooth, USB myself and call it good.

The fully loaded 2011 had everything I wanted, and at preferred pricing was exactly what I wanted to pay. I blew it.

I really appreciate the thoughts on it. I still go back and forth and have actually considered eating the loss. It sucks.
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Old 07-24-2010, 11:59 PM   #5
snowtrill
 
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Drives: 2011 RJT 2SS/RS M6- Rogue
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You should still have the dealer survey to fill out as well. You might mention the "fake" 30 day return.
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Old 07-25-2010, 12:22 AM   #6
DFinch
 
Drives: 2011 2LT/RS CGM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4
I plan on it. I'm also considering BBB and, after looking at my state's unlawful trade practices act, I might submit an online complaint to the AG. Worst that can happen is they'll say it's legit.
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Old 07-25-2010, 12:29 AM   #7
snowtrill
 
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Drives: 2011 RJT 2SS/RS M6- Rogue
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Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 609
BTW - I love the Cyber Grey, it was my original choice until I saw RJT in person.
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Old 07-25-2010, 12:51 AM   #8
Eric's Blue
 
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Drives: Cybergray 1SS
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If its the RS you wanted. No problem except headlights. I got a brand new, factory painted spoiler off Ebay 99 bucks, had 15 miles on it. I got the RS wheels and tires for 1000 bucks with sensors, never used. You d do better to get Katzkin leather instatlled anyway. My current issue is going from LT to 1SS... and trying to minimize that difference.
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Old 07-25-2010, 06:31 AM   #9
Danprh427
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 315
You cant really go to 1ss unless u trade up unless your putting a supercharger or turbo to make up for the hp. Id love to keep the 1lt at a daily driver then maybe pick up the new z28 as the race and show car.
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