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Old 12-09-2014, 11:30 AM   #1
ashutoshkotha
 
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Winter brings Snow. Let's deliver some power.

Hi Everyone. I know it is very embarrassing when in a debate with your friends/family or whosoever you have to argue on the point of "weight transfer" while driving a CAMARO in/on snow/ice. But, I personally don't feel that it is very hard to drive a rear wheel car. Honestly this is the first time i will be driving in snow but i really can't wait to do this. I was in a dilemma of getting my car from Texas. But, Now this morning i decided to get it here and play some wild power games.

These are the mods i will be taking care of before i get it down here.
-pirelli 245/45/20 front 255/45/20 rear
-Decarburising the engine.
-Changing come interior.
-Weight addition to the rear end. (Probably put some stationary sand bags)

So, guys. Is some one is ready to play in the snow in New England? Lets make this happen. I am new to Boston and really don't know if there are any snow tracks in and around Boston.

I am excited to meet and drive with some people on the same vibe.

Peace,
Ashu
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Old 12-09-2014, 11:33 AM   #2
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so, you have never driven a Camaro, albeit a V6 in the ice and snow, and you expect that this will be an easy task?
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Old 12-09-2014, 12:22 PM   #3
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Don't listen to the troll. Driving a camaro in the ice and snow isn't difficult V8 or V6 you just need to use common sense that is the biggest thing. Sand Bags won't do much for weight distribution in our cars but could be useful if you get stuck on ice. Big thing i have noticed is "DO NOT DRIVE ON 20" WHEELS & TIRES" they're to wide by nature and not enough sidewall to be safe honestly. can you use them sure but a good set of 18"s is a far better choice. Also get winter tires i've been an egomaniac the past few years and somehow been ok with A/S tires but went winter tires finally and ya everyone who says night and day difference isn't joking. But playing in the snow with your camaro definately not a sound idea only because of the way the car slides on ice and snow is not the same as it does on dirt or pavement and RWD or not the weight these cars throw if you go to far will ruin your day.
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Old 12-09-2014, 01:04 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Spartan01 View Post
so, you have never driven a Camaro, albeit a V6 in the ice and snow, and you expect that this will be an easy task?
I don't say this will be an easy task. But doing such things will bring out the best in you. I am not talking about driving on roads. Am talking about the snow tracks. I have no idea where to go drive like that.

My point is. If there is a group of people who are willing to do the mentioned. i would love to form a team and select a place and design a track if there aren't any around. Set timings and race among ourselves.

Isn't that a cool thing to do on a cold snowy day?
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Old 12-09-2014, 01:10 PM   #5
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Don't listen to the troll. Driving a camaro in the ice and snow isn't difficult V8 or V6 you just need to use common sense that is the biggest thing. Sand Bags won't do much for weight distribution in our cars but could be useful if you get stuck on ice. Big thing i have noticed is "DO NOT DRIVE ON 20" WHEELS & TIRES" they're to wide by nature and not enough sidewall to be safe honestly. can you use them sure but a good set of 18"s is a far better choice. Also get winter tires i've been an egomaniac the past few years and somehow been ok with A/S tires but went winter tires finally and ya everyone who says night and day difference isn't joking. But playing in the snow with your camaro definately not a sound idea only because of the way the car slides on ice and snow is not the same as it does on dirt or pavement and RWD or not the weight these cars throw if you go to far will ruin your day.
Yeah i get your point to the veins. I tried looking up for some !8's with tires on ebay and was not able to accommodate them considering i have to travel with the set of 20's i remove form the car, cost of relocation and other things. As of now.
What is the difference between night and day you are talking about? Is it that bad change in the conditions between night&day?

I understand the difficulty in snow when compared to mud/gravel/road. I think weight is the major issue and i thought we could manage that in a open ground when we go for laps. Would it be difficult to find such a place? would it be very difficult to drive in such place??
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Old 12-09-2014, 02:21 PM   #6
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Let me know where you move to. I want to know where the nearest scrap yard is so I can pick up parts.

Have fun learning about extreme oversteer.
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Old 12-09-2014, 02:26 PM   #7
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About the only place i know that may consider it is the Lodge in Belmont, NH (pretty sure it has a different name now) even then i doubt they'd let you do it. A/S tires in New England are not that great on packed or heavy snow much less ice for all kinds of various argueable reasons. But ya like happy_dan said oversteer can be a major problem Ne winters aren't like other winters either the temps change on a whim as does the ground cover conditions.
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Old 12-09-2014, 02:54 PM   #8
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Let me know where you move to. I want to know where the nearest scrap yard is so I can pick up parts.

Have fun learning about extreme oversteer.
I don't mind about parts. It's a car and i want to be a real driver. I will have fun learning something. Balancing weight will be more important aspect in such cases. Let's see what's going to happen. Experience is a very expensive nostalgia.
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Old 12-09-2014, 02:58 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH View Post
About the only place i know that may consider it is the Lodge in Belmont, NH (pretty sure it has a different name now) even then i doubt they'd let you do it. A/S tires in New England are not that great on packed or heavy snow much less ice for all kinds of various argueable reasons. But ya like happy_dan said oversteer can be a major problem Ne winters aren't like other winters either the temps change on a whim as does the ground cover conditions.
Thanks for the suggestion on the place Evil Bee. I will keep on looking for more. I'll let you know if i find any. Being said about oversteer possibilities by happy_dan. I think there are some pretty serious issues to be taken into consideration. But, I want to find a place and learn some serious balancing.
Don't you think it is a good idea to spend at least a day in the whole winter learning something?
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Old 12-09-2014, 03:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashutoshkotha View Post
I don't mind about parts. It's a car and i want to be a real driver. I will have fun learning something. Balancing weight will be more important aspect in such cases. Let's see what's going to happen. Experience is a very expensive nostalgia.
Well, then, it's important to learn from other experience, isn't it?
Get smaller wheels with wide sidewalls and skinny. That will get you through snow. It's NOT all about balance. That is only part of the equation. It's about physics.

Hit the gas instead of the brakes and steer where you want to go.

Let me know what happens the first time the car doesn't respond to what you think it will do in the snow if you never drove in it before.

Hope this is all amusing.

It's a GREAT idea to find an open parking lot when it's snowing and just driving around until you get a feel for the situation. Not sure where in the Boston area you are going to be but find a big mall parking lot with nothing to hit and just go nuts.
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:03 PM   #11
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Big parking lot is the best when it snows. Not hard driving these in the snow, expecially with good tires. Don't know why people get scared. I'd rather drive a rwd car over a fwd car in the snow.
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:53 PM   #12
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Well, then, it's important to learn from other experience, isn't it?
Get smaller wheels with wide sidewalls and skinny. That will get you through snow. It's NOT all about balance. That is only part of the equation. It's about physics.

Hit the gas instead of the brakes and steer where you want to go.

Let me know what happens the first time the car doesn't respond to what you think it will do in the snow if you never drove in it before.

Hope this is all amusing.

It's a GREAT idea to find an open parking lot when it's snowing and just driving around until you get a feel for the situation. Not sure where in the Boston area you are going to be but find a big mall parking lot with nothing to hit and just go nuts.
Whatever you listen from others is just their experiences and i respect them. cause they share what they experienced. I don't like jet lagging the concept of blindly following others experiences.
I'd rather be like "Been there! Done that!"

I think my you are getting my idea wrong. I didn't say balancing is only the thing. Balancing the weight transfer. By which i meant transferring the weight as assumed by you when you go into the turn and especially when you exit. Am talking about driving in open spaces piled up with snow. Not in parking lots in malls and for the feel. For me feel is when you can control your legs and you know the exact output of that. That is how i learnt driving.

I will ping you once i get to find a Proper track for snow riding a rear wheel drive car. We shall see what happens. Let me know if you find any as well.

Peace _\/_
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:56 PM   #13
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Big parking lot is the best when it snows. Not hard driving these in the snow, expecially with good tires. Don't know why people get scared. I'd rather drive a rwd car over a fwd car in the snow.
Yeah! Exactly. With all the theoretical knowledge and my plan of how to drive. I think rear wheel drive is more fun and makes you a better driver than a front wheel drive. Although if it is late for a movie and you gotta reach there on time. fwd may be a better bet.
But that's not what i want i guess that not what you want as well

Am driving my car all the way from Texas 31hours. Only to get into me a new segment of driving. Which i think will happen.
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:57 PM   #14
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Not sure what you were aiming for with testing your car in the snow i'm a huge advocate for year round driving in the camaro. It does take some paint damage though in the Northeast. Like i said and others have commented towards if you really want to have piece of mind wait get the 18's because the first time you slide out and bust a chunk in those 20's your gonna have one of those days at a show where we meet and i'll be the first one 'with a Megaphone no less" saying i told you so.

Most people who live up here will tell you what slowhawk dude just posted find an empty lot lose control and see what you think and i'm not talking bout the drifitng loss of control i'm talking about the full on spin. These cars are remarkably good in the snow but you're driving a two ton vehicle that when you lose control physics as my compadre said earlier will take control there is no balancing these cars for winter driving i have some firsthand knowledge of this. Most snow tracks i know of won't let you bring a camaro onto them only heavily modified off-road vehicles.

Of course i'm also a heavy advocate of to each his own cup of tea you won't get any judgement from me i've gotten enough from others just do me a huge favor be careful when you go test spinning if not for yourself then for others because up here in the northeast one minute no ones there the next you hit some kid jumping over a snow bank.
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:06 PM   #15
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You east coasters are hilarious.
My Camaro did very well in snow, and I previously owned a WRX.

Do NOT add weight to your car. The car is a near 50/50 weight distribution.
Get 18" or even 19" wheels, and get 235/xx/xx tires. Narrower is better for snow/ice traction.

I have an SS so the smallest I could go on my stock brakes without any cutting was 19" wheels, I put on properly sized snow tires, and I went through a winter just fine. Not once did I feel that the car performed poorly. I just went to my local Discount Tire and picked up the cheapest set of 19" wheels and snow tires I could. (My tires happened to be Falken somethings, and I am actually pretty impressed by them!)

Traction control is your friend. Stability control is even moreso. Leave the nannies on until you're VERY comfortable with how the car handles.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:14 PM   #16
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You want narrower tires in the rear, ( it'll cut tru the snow better) I use 235's in the rear and the car handle nicely
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:52 PM   #17
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There is some very good advice here already. The one thing I'd add is a response to this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashutoshkotha View Post
Am talking about driving in open spaces piled up with snow. Not in parking lots in malls and for the feel.
A Camaro is too low to the ground to clear more than 4-6 inches of standing snow. Any more than that and you'll hang up the under body and it won't matter what tires you have on the car. As I'm sure many here can attest, removing enough snow from under your car to get all four wheels back down really sucks.

I wish you luck and look forward to hearing about your snow adventures.

Personally, I've always lived in NE and I'm old enough to have learned how to drive with RWD V8s. I wish we had TC and SC back then. They make handling these cars much easier.

-Dennis-
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:57 PM   #18
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Im gunna be blunt about this. Bottom line when GM was developing the camaro ESPECIALLY the SS a summer oriented sports car they didnt put one thought into it being a reliable or even fun car in the winter. If youre looking to have fun in the snow by a 4wd beater and leave it in 2wd so not if but when you get in a bind you have the ability to get your ass out of trouble. Driving my $40k sports car through the snow doesnt sound even the slightest bit enjoyable nevermind intelligent. Although if i had a V6 base model that might be fun but seriously just by some rwd beater and get the same results. Why risk your "baby" is the juice really worth the squeeze?
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Old 12-09-2014, 11:36 PM   #19
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Mine did just fine in 5" of snow.

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Old 12-10-2014, 06:20 AM   #20
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Put a shovel in the trunk too. Snow is not like driving on dirt. It changes all the time.
I use to enjoy it. Now you get stuck, it's usually cold and crappy. Lol
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:36 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody_ View Post
Im gunna be blunt about this. Bottom line when GM was developing the camaro ESPECIALLY the SS a summer oriented sports car they didnt put one thought into it being a reliable or even fun car in the winter. If youre looking to have fun in the snow by a 4wd beater and leave it in 2wd so not if but when you get in a bind you have the ability to get your ass out of trouble. Driving my $40k sports car through the snow doesnt sound even the slightest bit enjoyable nevermind intelligent. Although if i had a V6 base model that might be fun but seriously just by some rwd beater and get the same results. Why risk your "baby" is the juice really worth the squeeze?
Completely disagree with the statement that GM didn't put any thought into the snow and cold. They do a LOT of testing in just those conditions. They even did cold weather testing in the ZL1. It's all about tires. The car is very heavy which is perfect and I agree no sand needed. Just get the right tires and you can drive these cars all winter if you want to.
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Old 12-10-2014, 09:06 AM   #22
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If your going with 20's get the front size all the way around 245/45/20.

Wider rear tires are not better in the snow.

Find a wide open parking lot after the first snow fall and get the feel for the car.

Driving a 5th Gen in the snow is easy,lots of nannies but the laws of physics still apply.

These are a lot easier to drive in the winter than 4th Gens

BTW extra weight is not required.

Also remember that bridges and overpasses freeze first so watch for black ice as no one can drive on that shit and you will spin out.
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Old 12-10-2014, 09:09 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody_ View Post
Im gunna be blunt about this. Bottom line when GM was developing the camaro ESPECIALLY the SS a summer oriented sports car they didnt put one thought into it being a reliable or even fun car in the winter. If youre looking to have fun in the snow by a 4wd beater and leave it in 2wd so not if but when you get in a bind you have the ability to get your ass out of trouble. Driving my $40k sports car through the snow doesnt sound even the slightest bit enjoyable nevermind intelligent. Although if i had a V6 base model that might be fun but seriously just by some rwd beater and get the same results. Why risk your "baby" is the juice really worth the squeeze?
I also have to say that I disagree with this statement.

Can't remember where I read this, but I am in Canada, near Toronto and before buying my 2013 Camaro 2SS Convertible.....I read that from 2010 on just about all the car manufacturers had upgraded the convertible top materials to be able to survive harsh winters as the consumer was demanding a car that can be used all year round and not be forced to buy a beater for winter.
It's a sports/muscle car yes but I bought it with the intentions of driving it every moment I can, it's not a Bugatti or anything!
I took the proper precautions, put on the OEM color matched mudflaps, had it crown rust proofed, weather-tech floor liners and 20" Pirelli Snowsport winter tires on factory rims. Now, I am lucky enough that my work allows me to work from home when the weather is bad and my spouse has a 4x4 Toyota Tacoma, so when it's really bad...I am not going to drive the Camaro and have her Tacoma to get us where we need to go. Already drove through several storms with a few inches of accumulation without issue.
One storm a few weeks ago, I was at a set of lights that we places on top of a very steep incline and at the lights to the left was a small SUV with 4 ways flashers on stuck and another car ..some Buick...completely stuck up against the curb on the right and I just crawled right through both of them stuck there....no issue...image that some SUV and Buick car stuck and a convertible Camaro just walks past....heh....
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:01 AM   #24
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The point is you can have the same effect by driving a different car in the snow, the camaro wasnt designed to excel in winter conditions. I can buy some rwd beater for a grand and save the trouble of worrying about something happening. And i have to agree driving in the snow is all about the driver, but how much do you trust the guy behind you? I'd much rather get rear ended in a cheap throw away car than my camaro. Yeah insurance might take care of everything.. In a month or six and then you get to live with always having an accident on your car fax. Im just saying tooling around in your camaro is not the brightest idea
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:27 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Guelphguy View Post
One storm a few weeks ago, I was at a set of lights that we places on top of a very steep incline and at the lights to the left was a small SUV with 4 ways flashers on stuck and another car ..some Buick...completely stuck up against the curb on the right and I just crawled right through both of them stuck there....no issue...image that some SUV and Buick car stuck and a convertible Camaro just walks past....heh....
Talk about permi-grin!

-Dennis-
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