Thermal Management

[JusticePete]

Our 2010 Camaro is making over 560 RWHP and 499 RWTQ. It is also making a lot of heat. It makes so much heat it discolors the paint on the lower rear fascia and has melted some of the fascia. We can live with that, but losing power because of high IATs -- unacceptable.



ProCharger has developed a Stage II kit for the 2010 Camaro. We now run a larger intake tube and filter with a MASSIVE race intercooler. The new intercooler includes a mount for the MAF. My tuner believes that the air flow in the intercooler is less turbulent and allows him to tune more effectively. We did not gain RWHP but we did gain between 20 and 30 RWHP and RWTQ between 3 and 6K. We also dramatically dropped the IATs and should not see any on track power loss.

In addition to the new intake and intercooler we did more thermal management work. We wrapped the headers, removed the sound insulation from the plenum, wrapped the heater hoses and finally wrapped the intake charge tube to isolate it from engine compartment heat. The crew at Witt Buick did a great job for us.

We'll track test in a little more than two weeks, but the street and dyno results are very encouraging.



We do not suggest you remove the OE mufflers because they are part of the under car OE aero engineering. The shape of the mufflers flow air past the rear fascia. The OE mufflers prevent the rear fascia from becoming your drogue chute, they reduce drag at high speeds.

Under your engine cover is a plenum cover. This cover is installed to reduce air flow noise in the passenger area. We suspected it was also holding in heat. As we look to make the intake charge as cool as possible reducing the temperature of the plenum made sense.



The foam is relatively thick. With the cover removed you can lay your hand on the plenum after a hard run comfortably. It may not be scientific, but it is an effective measurement. With plenum cover -- too hit to touch. Without plenum cover -- warm but comfortable.



Jeff at Witt Buick wraps the heater hoses that lay across the plenum. We wrapped the hose to reduce heat transmission from the hose to the plenum. Anything that we could do to keep the intake air cool and maintain all the OE creature comforts we did.





Thermal management is straight forward, but time consuming. It takes longer than you would think. Our complete project including tuning took 3 and 1/2 days.

To wrap the headers we had to remove them. Coating may have been as effective, but the full race guys we spoke with seemed to think that wrapping was more effective. We apologise to our good friends at ARH for wrapping their wonderful SS 2010 Camaro headers. Sorry about that Nick.



When it comes to wrapping headers the best think to do is go slow. It seems that no matter how much care you put into the project there will be a gap here and there. We did the wrap and sprayed a coat of protective silicone. When the coating has dried we went back to wrapping until we were satisfied.




Jeff from Witt Buick sprays protective coating.



This header is 90% complete. If you take a close look you'll find some gaps. We wrapped and sprayed again.



Header #2 gets wrapped.





Our data logging did not detect any electronic issues. That said, as long as we were taking these extreme thermal management measures we insulated the spark plug wires.






The engine compartment was shaping up as far as the wraps for stage one of the project.



The standard ProCharger, 2.5 Quart Fluidyne Oil Cooler and supplemental power steering cooler are shown here. Take note of the collector / tanks being on the top and bottom with the cores running vertically.




The original ProCharger Intercooler was sufficient to make our Camaro the fastest 2010 on a road course and at the Optima Challenge. We would have been faster with our current setup. We would have been faster because we would not have lost power due to high IATs and timing being pulled out of the tune by the on board engine computer.

The new intercooler is larger by dimension and use side tanks instead of top and bottom tanks. It also includes a mounting point for the MAF. The old system had the MAF in the charge tube. The metal tube and mount would get hot. The heat from the metal tube influenced the MAF temperature reading making the computer think the air in the tube was hotter that it actually was. The new MAF location will read accurate air temperatures. Not only with the reading be accurate, the air will be cooler due to the improved intercooler. On the dyno our supercharged air was only 2 to 3 degrees warmer than the ambient air temperature. We did our dyno work with a single fan. Recovery was almost instantaneous. With air moving at track speeds we should be seeing supercharged air at ambient temps.



The Fluidyne 2.5 Quart oil cooler is mounted above the new ProCharger Stage II intercooler. Today the ambient air temp was 91 degrees. The in car temperature gauge / model showed oil temps to be 210 degrees when the water temp was 194. Using a direct reading thermal probe on the oil tank the reading was down to 150 degrees. The intercooler after the same 30 minute expressway drive was found to be 91 degrees or the same as ambient air.



The oil cooler is plumbed with -12 lines. -12 stands for REALLY BIG OIL LINES!




In this picture look at the left lower corner. You will see the OE bumper mount un- cut.



In this picture you can see where we trimmed the bumper mount to create clearance for the new MAF location.



This is the new intake charge pipe test fit into place. The only difference is there is no MAF mount on the Stage II pipe NAKED.



We insulated the Stage II pipe from rubber hose mount to rubber hose mount with left-over header wrap. On the headers, the wrap keeps heat in. On the intake pipe we are using it to keep heat OUT. With the MAF reading IAT at the intercooler we wanted to make certain that the air entering the engine was the same as it was in the intercooler.



Here you can see the intake charge pipe installed with header wrap. We only Stage I in our process. We need to add the 'astronaut' sock.



Stage II required the installation of an 'astronaut sock'. This reflective heat barrier is made of the same material as header wrap with a foil outer shell to reflect heat away from the pipe. Ryan at Witt Buick did a great job of lacing up the 'astronaut' sock in relatively tight spaces.



All of our insulation materials were purchased through Lane Automotive in Waterviliet Michigan.



The 2010 5th Gen Chevrolet Camaro is an American Muscle Car. You can see we tip our hat to acknowledge the heritage with Red White and Blue lacing. We are confident that the insulation will deliver supercharged air within a degree or two of the air measured at the new MAF location of the intercooler. The proof will come at our next testing session when we can compare data from previous runs to the new runs we make using Thermal Management.



If we had it to do all over again, we would have had the headers coated and still wrapped them. The LS3 is a furnace and anything we can do to lower the engine compartment temperatures is a good thing. The same is true of all the other things we did. On our next project car I can assure you we will do this the first time around and not install so many of the same parts twice.

I should also pint out that we run our 5th Gen hard, really hard. The harder you run them the more care you have to exercise regarding Thermal Management.

[FloydSummerOf68]

Wow, you guys were putting out some serious heat!

The new setup looks good.

[JusticePete]

11 or 12 seconds at the strip is heat for 11 or 12 seconds. Laps at Gingerman are about 1 minute and 34 seconds or 12 runs down the strip. We try to hold the hot laps down to 6 with a warm-up and a cool down. Over that time we build a lot of heat. The beauty of the new setup is that it works just as well in stop and go traffic.

What we don't know is how much hotter the rear exhaust will be since we are capturing heat around the headers and passing hotter exhaust gas through the pipes. I am wondering if it will spit flames on the down shifts at dusk.

[old motorhead]

What do high IAT's have to do with hot mufflers? Obviously I'm missing something. Wouldn't wrapping the front end of the exhaust make the back end of the exhaust run even hotter?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by old motorhead

What do high IAT's have to do with hot mufflers? Obviously I'm missing something. Wouldn't wrapping the front end of the exhaust make the back end of the exhaust run even hotter?

The answer is yes.

Wrapping the headers does increase the exhaust temperature.

IATs are increased by the heat in the engine compartment because the ProCharger pulls air from the engine compartment. Wrapping the headers will reduce the engine compartment temps because the going into the ProCharger will be lower.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

When on the cutting edge, you always have to be working to improve what you have

mike

[radz28]

This is a pretty cool discussion! Wrapping those headers must've been a PITA, lol. Looking forward to even BETTER times

[Mr Twisty]

Good read, thanks for sharing

[trudawg660]

why not run a coolingmist system

[Ovenmitt]

Awesome! I have two questions though.

1: Why not relocate the heater/coolant hoses entirely off the top of the manifold. You have the resources to do so, and if not there is a kit on the market.

2: Keeping stock mufflers for aero reasons is silly. You'd drop a ton of radiant heat in that area alone with a pair of smaller, less restrictive mufflers. For a race car, some SIMPLE sheet metal work would easily fix the air gap. Just thinking out loud.

[2010 SSRS]

wow, I can't believe the damage that happened from the heat, that sux.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Ovenmitt

Awesome! I have two questions though.

1: Why not relocate the heater/coolant hoses entirely off the top of the manifold. You have the resources to do so, and if not there is a kit on the market.

2: Keeping stock mufflers for aero reasons is silly. You'd drop a ton of radiant heat in that area alone with a pair of smaller, less restrictive mufflers. For a race car, some SIMPLE sheet metal work would easily fix the air gap. Just thinking out loud.

1. I didn't have a relocation kit handy and what we did should be just as effective.

2. We do run cut outs so we have FOUR exhaust pipes in the rear. Two are straight open and the other two take the excess flow from the open pipes through the OE exhaust. On the dyno we see 2 RWHP at the most at WOT with the cut outs open. The heat damage still occurs with the cut outs open.

Good questions. Thanks for reading. By the way, can you send me an oven mitt to use when I work on my hot Camaro?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by 2010 SSRS

wow, I can't believe the damage that happened from the heat, that sux.

All in all we are pretty lucky that the only thing we are breaking or burning is the lower rear fascia. When you push a street car like a race car things like this will happen. While testing the Pontiac G8 we melted and entire rear fascia as well as the plastic sub-structure at the same track.

[jnm2003]

are the cut outs pointing directly to the rear fascia? That could be where the heat is coming from thats melting it. the muffler could only have melted plastic on it from bumping the hot fascia caused by the cut outs! Just throwing that out there just incase thats not the problem!

[jnm2003]

I see exactly what your saying about the plenum holding heat bc mine is really hot after runs also. i cant imagine yours feels like having a procharger. Between runs at the drag strip i put a bag of ice on the intake manifold to help the cool down process... just a little thing we try and do down here in the south with 110 deg heat index! Im going to do this mod to mine! Quick question before i do mine tho.. Do you think the plenum is there to keep heat in the engine bay from getting to the intake manifold? taking that off would allow more heat to get to the intake but also allow it to cool off faster not having to wait on that thick foam to cool down also. what do you think..? im guessing since i put ice on it anyway i should take it off bc the cooling of the ice can affect the actual intake and not the plenum also

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by jnm2003

are the cut outs pointing directly to the rear fascia? That could be where the heat is coming from thats melting it. the muffler could only have melted plastic on it from bumping the hot fascia caused by the cut outs! Just throwing that out there just in case thats not the problem!

That is exactly what melted the G8. We really didn't think it would collect like that. On the Camaro we have the pipes at the lower edge of the rear lower fascia cut off on an angle so you can't event see them, but the hot exhaust gas does not get trapped or collected.

[jrpxxii]

Very nicely done and well thought out. This is very tedious work and takes alot of patience but it is nice to see the end result payoff. Good job.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by trudawg660

why not run a coolingmist system

We talked about that and meth injection. As much as we use the Pedders Camaro as a track car, it is still a Daily Driver. I take the family out in it all the time. I didn't want to have to be concerned with water, alcohol or both in tanks. What we have done requires no additional daily maintenance. We get in the car and go on the track or to school with the kids.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by jnm2003

I see exactly what your saying about the plenum holding heat bc mine is really hot after runs also. i cant imagine yours feels like having a procharger. Between runs at the drag strip i put a bag of ice on the intake manifold to help the cool down process... just a little thing we try and do down here in the south with 110 deg heat index! Im going to do this mod to mine! Quick question before i do mine tho.. Do you think the plenum is there to keep heat in the engine bay from getting to the intake manifold? taking that off would allow more heat to get to the intake but also allow it to cool off faster not having to wait on that thick foam to cool down also. what do you think..? im guessing since i put ice on it anyway i should take it off bc the cooling of the ice can affect the actual intake and not the plenum also

Based on what I know and what I am told the function is to muffler the noise of the air flowing through.The same material that deadens noise (the foam) holds heat in. It is all part of the quest for quiet.

[Ovenmitt]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

1. I didn't have a relocation kit handy and what we did should be just as effective.

2. We do run cut outs so we have FOUR exhaust pipes in the rear. Two are straight open and the other two take the excess flow from the open pipes through the OE exhaust. On the dyno we see 2 RWHP at the most at WOT with the cut outs open. The heat damage still occurs with the cut outs open.

Good questions. Thanks for reading. By the way, can you send me an oven mitt to use when I work on my hot Camaro?

I've got a giant kevlar sock with your name on it.

Cutouts makes sense, but that exhaust still travels rearward. No doubt what caused the melt. Although, same as before, some rivets/sheetmetal/tig can take care of that in a whistle.

[IPS Brandon]

You need a tech afx heater hose relocation kit, ill WD one to you if you need. Check it out, forget about wrapping the heater hoses.




This is on our 660hp TT camaro kit, but the heater hose re-location kit moves the heater lines to the frame rail, with oem connections! Its a great solution, a little more streamlined.

Regards

[SILVER BULLITT]

nice info and write up boys

[RX SS RACERX]

Problem,SuperMaxx Dynatech 1&7/8 long tube,3" high flow cats and FlowMaster American Thunder exhaust already installed. 'Jewell' screams but underhood heat seems excessive. Ceramic coating at this point not an option. I have DEI thermal wrap-with time and patience is wrapping without removal realistic. I enjoy time in the garage,but lost causes are not my strong suit. Any tips/advice or 'you should of thought of it before' would be appreciated. If I have to remove I will,but while she's down-anything else I should of done sooner. Also, thoughts on the recommended silicon coating and amount probably needed. 2 rolls 2"x50' recommended.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by RX SS RACERX

Problem,SuperMaxx Dynatech 1&7/8 long tube,3" high flow cats and FlowMaster American Thunder exhaust already installed. 'Jewell' screams but underhood heat seems excessive. Ceramic coating at this point not an option. I have DEI thermal wrap-with time and patience is wrapping without removal realistic. I enjoy time in the garage,but lost causes are not my strong suit. Any tips/advice or 'you should of thought of it before' would be appreciated. If I have to remove I will,but while she's down-anything else I should of done sooner. Also, thoughts on the recommended silicon coating and amount probably needed. 2 rolls 2"x50' recommended.

We used almost three rolls and three cans of coating. I don't think it is possible to wrap them on the car and if you did it would never be close to as good a job. If I had to do it all over again, I would take it one step further and have the headers coated and wrapped. Go ahead in insulate your charge pipe as well. I am a huge believer in coolers. Transmission coolers. Oil coolers. Power steering coolers. Anything you can do to lower fluid / oil operating temperatures will result in increased performance and longevity.

[RX SS RACERX]

Thanks,I knew the 'right' answer I just needed to here it. Since they are coming off I guess coating is now an additional option. Thanks for the other mods also-I totally agree-heat is the enemy in this case! I'll have to go see my local pharmacist and get some 'calm' pills for this one.