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Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 07-28-2010, 04:09 PM   #1
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L99 Cam Swap

MTI Racing just finished up another 2010 Camaro camshaft swap, lowering springs, and sway bar package. This L99 Camaro came in from Alabama wanting more power and better handling, no problem.

We started by installing our Stage 1 Camshaft with matching valve springs. The stage 1 Camshaft is designed to be used with the stock torque converter and the DOD system on the L99 Camaro. This camshaft makes awesome horsepower and torque by taking advantage of the great airflow the LS3 cylinder heads, plus the added benefit of headers the car already had installed. You will get a mild to moderate sound from this camshaft. This Camaro went from 312rwhp to 405rwhp.

We also installed a set of the MTI Racing Sport Lowering Springs to give the car a more aggressive look and improve the handling by lowering the center of gravity. Combined with the MTI Racing Sway Bars to limit body roll this Camaro is now ready to carve up those mountain roads with confidence.

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MTI Racing Stage 1 Camshaft
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:17 PM   #2
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Is a sound file available for this cam/header combo?
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:59 PM   #3
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wowzers
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Old 07-28-2010, 05:15 PM   #4
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Very impressive!
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:17 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerouSS View Post
Is a sound file available for this cam/header combo?
I'd like to hear this too. Good output though.
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:29 PM   #6
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Ditto
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:42 PM   #7
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does that cam fit with supercharger kit ?
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:40 PM   #8
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What are the specs on this stage 1 cam??
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:02 AM   #9
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If you click the link in the original post, it gives the specs on the cam.
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Old 08-02-2010, 11:09 PM   #10
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How much should one expect to pay for a cam install and tune? I have Kook's 1 7/8"'s and a Rotofab... looking for next fun mod!

Would this cam be a problem if/when I go to a supercharger?
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Old 08-02-2010, 11:16 PM   #11
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It dynoed at 312 rwhp WITH headers already???

WTF?, THAT dude was in serious need of a fuse pull.

Were the headers installed loosely in the trunk? I'm a little confused.
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PQ View Post
It dynoed at 312 rwhp WITH headers already???

WTF?, THAT dude was in serious need of a fuse pull.

Were the headers installed loosely in the trunk? I'm a little confused.
I was thinking the same way. I've yet to see a cam, especially a stage 1 cam, that makes 90whp. This cam is suppose to be DOD friendly? It just doesn't add up. Even the GX6 cam doesn't give that much of a gain and it's pretty radical.
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:15 AM   #13
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Is that an EOD license plate up front??

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Old 08-03-2010, 09:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PQ View Post
It dynoed at 312 rwhp WITH headers already???

WTF?, THAT dude was in serious need of a fuse pull.

Were the headers installed loosely in the trunk? I'm a little confused.
It was probably in need of a fuse pull, yes. But that was probably hurting it by about 10hp.

This is why we base line the car before we do the work, and then dyno it after we do the work.

The cam swap and dyno tuning were a great upgrade.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:40 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by PQ View Post
It dynoed at 312 rwhp WITH headers already???

WTF?, THAT dude was in serious need of a fuse pull.

Were the headers installed loosely in the trunk? I'm a little confused.
I just installed some headers and they made zero horsepower. But they did make 20 ft/lbs of torque at the wheels.

My knock retard will not let timing go above 14. At least that's what was happening when my car was on the rollers when my headers were installed.

But... My car is noticabley faster now. Forget butt dyno, my car will get squirly when it shifts into 3rd gear now. It never did that before.

It's really strange, the rwtq increase that I got from the headers was across most of the powerband, and for whatever reason, that little difference changed the way my car drives. It's just a lot more powerful now.

But, perhaps my car is making the timing that the tune is commanding, now that my car doesn't have the heat soak and high IAT's that it was seeing when it was being dynod. It was over 100* F that day and the IAT's were like 150+.

Another thing is these L99's dyno so differently from one to the next. My car dynod at 317 rwhp (336 with proper weather correction factor) when it just had a Corsa catback. Then I installed a Halltech Yellow Jacket (no tune version) and it made 297 rwhp on a different Mustang dyno.

I'm still baffled by that. And my car doesn't need a fuse pull because it was built in Jan of this year and has all the recent updates from the factory.

From what I understand, fuse pull only works for L99's that were built before a certain date in 2009.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:47 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by axis View Post
I was thinking the same way. I've yet to see a cam, especially a stage 1 cam, that makes 90whp. This cam is suppose to be DOD friendly? It just doesn't add up. Even the GX6 cam doesn't give that much of a gain and it's pretty radical.
You know what? I can see how the gain is possible, especially for an L99. My tuner tells me that the L99 camshaft is weak (does not make power). He says it's the real limiter for the L99.

Once you change the L99 VVT camshaft to a traditional one like the one in the LS3, you will have an engine that is making hp like the LS3. This camshaft probably makes more power than the LS3 cam.

If that's the case, once you add the power that comes from headers and a proper tune, these results seem very good but also pretty normal.

Of course, this assumes that the MTI Racing Stage 1 Cam is not a VVT cam. But then again, these new VVT cams that are coming out make some pretty good power.
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Old 08-03-2010, 05:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTI Racing Kevin View Post
It was probably in need of a fuse pull, yes. But that was probably hurting it by about 10hp.

This is why we base line the car before we do the work, and then dyno it after we do the work.

The cam swap and dyno tuning were a great upgrade.
Wow. I would just have a problem putting headers on and gaining no HP. Even if the torque did had a moderate gain.

But I bet it sounds great now that you guys are done with it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyakaPig View Post
From what I understand, fuse pull only works for L99's that were built before a certain date in 2009.
I just confirmed that's not accurate. I know I've said taht for a while, but I was wrong. There is no fix for the cars computer to auto relearn the timing maps for fuel. The fuse pull, or dealer doing it manualy, is the only re-learn for the car should you get bad gas or low oct. in it.

Tuning it may reset the defaults however.
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:06 PM   #18
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Wow. I would just have a problem putting headers on and gaining no HP. Even if the torque did had a moderate gain.

But I bet it sounds great now that you guys are done with it.



I just confirmed that's not accurate. I know I've said taht for a while, but I was wrong. There is no fix for the cars computer to auto relearn the timing maps for fuel. The fuse pull, or dealer doing it manualy, is the only re-learn for the car should you get bad gas or low oct. in it.

Tuning it may reset the defaults however.
Good to know. However, concerning my car, I would imagine the dealership that sold me the car filled up my tank with low octane gas and less than a month later my car made 336 corrected rwhp, so for whatever reason, my car didn't need the fuse pull.

And when I took it to the dealer asking about the fuse pull, they said there was a bulletin and that my car already had the update from the factory so they said that flashing the ECM wasn't necessary.

This is all before I got a tune.

Regarding the zero hp gain, I would guess that my car did gain hp, but when it was on the rollers getting dynod my car was not making the timing that it was supposed to make. I'm thinking that driving the car (especially at night) provides me with low enough IAT's for my car to make the full amount of timing so there most likely is a gain. I know I can for sure feel it.

Before the headers my car felt fast (as a KB powered car should) but now it's too much for my taste. I discovered my limit and the headers put it over the edge. Plus, it's louder than sh%*. People say it sounds nice and it does sound clean, but once the rpms get over 2000, forget about it, it sounds like a race car. haha
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyakaPig View Post
Good to know. However, concerning my car, I would imagine the dealership that sold me the car filled up my tank with low octane gas and less than a month later my car made 336 corrected rwhp, so for whatever reason, my car didn't need the fuse pull.

And when I took it to the dealer asking about the fuse pull, they said there was a bulletin and that my car already had the update from the factory so they said that flashing the ECM wasn't necessary.

This is all before I got a tune.

Regarding the zero hp gain, I would guess that my car did gain hp, but when it was on the rollers getting dynod my car was not making the timing that it was supposed to make. I'm thinking that driving the car (especially at night) provides me with low enough IAT's for my car to make the full amount of timing so there most likely is a gain. I know I can for sure feel it.

Before the headers my car felt fast (as a KB powered car should) but now it's too much for my taste. I discovered my limit and the headers put it over the edge. Plus, it's louder than sh%*. People say it sounds nice and it does sound clean, but once the rpms get over 2000, forget about it, it sounds like a race car. haha
That would make sense.
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Old 08-03-2010, 10:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyakaPig View Post
Good to know. However, concerning my car, I would imagine the dealership that sold me the car filled up my tank with low octane gas and less than a month later my car made 336 corrected rwhp, so for whatever reason, my car didn't need the fuse pull.

And when I took it to the dealer asking about the fuse pull, they said there was a bulletin and that my car already had the update from the factory so they said that flashing the ECM wasn't necessary.

This is all before I got a tune.

Regarding the zero hp gain, I would guess that my car did gain hp, but when it was on the rollers getting dynod my car was not making the timing that it was supposed to make. I'm thinking that driving the car (especially at night) provides me with low enough IAT's for my car to make the full amount of timing so there most likely is a gain. I know I can for sure feel it.

Before the headers my car felt fast (as a KB powered car should) but now it's too much for my taste. I discovered my limit and the headers put it over the edge. Plus, it's louder than sh%*. People say it sounds nice and it does sound clean, but once the rpms get over 2000, forget about it, it sounds like a race car. haha
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:57 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyakaPig View Post
You know what? I can see how the gain is possible, especially for an L99. My tuner tells me that the L99 camshaft is weak (does not make power). He says it's the real limiter for the L99.

Once you change the L99 VVT camshaft to a traditional one like the one in the LS3, you will have an engine that is making hp like the LS3. This camshaft probably makes more power than the LS3 cam.

If that's the case, once you add the power that comes from headers and a proper tune, these results seem very good but also pretty normal.

Of course, this assumes that the MTI Racing Stage 1 Cam is not a VVT cam. But then again, these new VVT cams that are coming out make some pretty good power.
If you read MTI"s post, he says that the stage 1 cam is made to work with DOD, so it reads like this car is still running DOD. If there was head work done, he didn't mention it so we have to assume he didn't touch the heads at all. I haven't seen a car that added headers that didn't gain HP. You are definitely the first. BTW, aren't you running a KB SC?
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:36 PM   #22
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If you read MTI"s post, he says that the stage 1 cam is made to work with DOD, so it reads like this car is still running DOD. If there was head work done, he didn't mention it so we have to assume he didn't touch the heads at all. I haven't seen a car that added headers that didn't gain HP. You are definitely the first. BTW, aren't you running a KB SC?
Edit: I was just trying to say that a more aggressive cam in the L99 (even if it keeps AFM/DOD) has the capability of making as much hp as a stock LS3. And when you take a car that is making that much power and add headers and the appropriate tune, you can see how they get over 400 rwhp. That's all I was saying.

I don't believe I mentioned head work.

Yes, I have a KB.

Regarding my car not making any hp with the headers, it's true that on the dyno there was no gain. My dyno sheet -- if my tuner would actually send it to me -- will show no gain over my last run before the headers were installed.

But... My tuner was commanding 18* timing. When the headers were installed, the heat was crazy, and when my car was on the dyno it was not making more than 14* timing.

Each degree of timing on these cars is worth between 6-8 hp. Assuming my gain is on the conservative side, say "6 hp," 6 multiplied by the 4* of timing that is missing is 24 hp. So at the least, if my car was making the full 18* of timing, I would see a gain of 24 rwhp.

My car feels like it gained at least 24 rwhp. But it didn't make that number on the dyno.

Last edited by SonnyakaPig; 08-04-2010 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:39 PM   #23
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Learn to love the sound. Let people know there's an SS on the road.
I'm trying. haha
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:15 AM   #24
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Edit: I was just trying to say that a more aggressive cam in the L99 (even if it keeps AFM/DOD) has the capability of making as much hp as a stock LS3. And when you take a car that is making that much power and add headers and the appropriate tune, you can see how they get over 400 rwhp. That's all I was saying.

I don't believe I mentioned head work.

Yes, I have a KB.

Regarding my car not making any hp with the headers, it's true that on the dyno there was no gain. My dyno sheet -- if my tuner would actually send it to me -- will show no gain over my last run before the headers were installed.

But... My tuner was commanding 18* timing. When the headers were installed, the heat was crazy, and when my car was on the dyno it was not making more than 14* timing.

Each degree of timing on these cars is worth between 6-8 hp. Assuming my gain is on the conservative side, say "6 hp," 6 multiplied by the 4* of timing that is missing is 24 hp. So at the least, if my car was making the full 18* of timing, I would see a gain of 24 rwhp.

My car feels like it gained at least 24 rwhp. But it didn't make that number on the dyno.
I can see what you're saying about the timing.

I can easily see a good cam, with LT's and a good tune giving you LS3 type numbers but stock LS3's don't make 400+whp. MTI's original post seems a little misleading though. It appears as though he got a car in that made 312whp WITH LT's, and his stage 1 cam and tune alone gave it 93whp. That is the part i'm questioning as no other cam, L99 or LS3, has been proven to give that much of a gain.
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Old 08-06-2010, 10:20 AM   #25
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The cam didn't add 90hp.


If the cam was removed and all the other parts (headers, etc) were left on the car and it was properly tuned, it would make at least 350 rwhp (probably more).
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