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Old 11-19-2008, 11:33 AM   #1
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Brakes for the 500+ HP crowd

I searched and found nothing on this so I registered to put it past you guys. I was looking at the specs for the rear brakes on the CTS-V and they are listed as 14.37x1.10 with aluminum four-pot calipers. The rears on the SS are listed as 14.4x1.10 so this tells me two things.

1. Those guys who will be either camming the LS3 or going FI could use the 14.57x1.34 six piston front brakes from the CTS-V as a "Big Brake Kit" which would work since the CTS is even heavier than the SS and stops from 60 in 109ft.

2. The CTS-V runs on 19" rims so at least we know we can at least fit 19's if not 18's for drag radials.

What do you guys think?
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Old 11-19-2008, 12:11 PM   #2
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Sounds promising
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Old 11-19-2008, 01:40 PM   #3
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Just because the rotors are similar doesn't mean the brakes are interchangeable. The caliper mount could be different, even the bolt circle could be different (though it probably wont be). The CTS-V is sigma and the Camaro is a modified Zeta so they could easily be different.
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Old 11-19-2008, 02:41 PM   #4
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I'm checking now, but I believe there is at least a six-piston aluminum/iron brake upgrade for the V, but think they come with six-pot silver calipers stock. The upgrade includes red calipers and two-piece rotors without slots. I think this would be a great upgrade if either the calipers would fit or someone fabricate some billet adapters. The OEM 4-pot SS calipers and 14-plus-inch brakes should prove pretty stout as it is though. But hey - to each his own
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Old 11-19-2008, 02:44 PM   #5
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14.57" X 1.34" slotted co-cast (iron disc/aluminum hat) six-piston caliper front brakes and 14.37" X 1.10" four-piston rear rotors.
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Old 11-19-2008, 02:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Just because the rotors are similar doesn't mean the brakes are interchangeable. The caliper mount could be different, even the bolt circle could be different (though it probably wont be). The CTS-V is sigma and the Camaro is a modified Zeta so they could easily be different.
well they used the cts-v front brakes on the Sema LS7 Camaro, and they showed the swap on their video teaser.
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Old 11-19-2008, 10:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Mero Mero View Post
I searched and found nothing on this so I registered to put it past you guys. I was looking at the specs for the rear brakes on the CTS-V and they are listed as 14.37x1.10 with aluminum four-pot calipers. The rears on the SS are listed as 14.4x1.10 so this tells me two things.

1. Those guys who will be either camming the LS3 or going FI could use the 14.57x1.34 six piston front brakes from the CTS-V as a "Big Brake Kit" which would work since the CTS is even heavier than the SS and stops from 60 in 109ft.

2. The CTS-V runs on 19" rims so at least we know we can at least fit 19's if not 18's for drag radials.

What do you guys think?
And what about adding horsepower would make anyone think that they need to add $1000+ worth of calipers (and who knows what else to make them work) to an already $4000+ (on the street for other cars) brake package? Those two extra pistons will likely take your braking distance down 10 feet if that.... How often are you dropping to a dead stop? I guarantee you will have no extra need for those pistons while drag racing or even some spirited canyon carving. While yes in many cars you absolutely need to upgrade the brakes as you add some balls (4thgens for example) this is NOT one of those cars. I've tracked higher power to weight ratio cars with less brakes and they had no problems finishing a lapping session and braking just fine.

Spend $100 on some steel braided lines if it already doesn't have them and then take the rest of your money and buy some more engine mods... ever hear "if it ain't broke don't fix it".... this is one of those times.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:57 PM   #8
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And what about adding horsepower would make anyone think that they need to add $1000+ worth of calipers (and who knows what else to make them work) to an already $4000+ (on the street for other cars) brake package? Those two extra pistons will likely take your braking distance down 10 feet if that.... How often are you dropping to a dead stop? I guarantee you will have no extra need for those pistons while drag racing or even some spirited canyon carving. While yes in many cars you absolutely need to upgrade the brakes as you add some balls (4thgens for example) this is NOT one of those cars. I've tracked higher power to weight ratio cars with less brakes and they had no problems finishing a lapping session and braking just fine.

Spend $100 on some steel braided lines if it already doesn't have them and then take the rest of your money and buy some more engine mods... ever hear "if it ain't broke don't fix it".... this is one of those times.
To be perfectly honest I'm semi OCD and it annoys me that the rear brakes are bigger than the front brakes and most of my decision to swap them would be based on the fact that I like my front brakes to be bigger.
I'm also not saying that you NEED bigger brakes on this car, it already does have a lot of brakes and I personally am not sold on all that six-pistol caliper crap. My e30 has single piston calipers and 10.24in rotors all around and they can still lock up drag radials. You are entirely correct in that braided SS lines, combined with a good pad will add more than sufficient braking power most of the time.
That said there is a reason why GM blessed the CTS-V and the Corvette ZR-1 (which is a much lighter car) with larger brakes. Personally brakes are an area where I don't want to save money that's where I want to spend it, brakes keep me alive a lot of time. If you want to go quickly at more places than just the drag strip more power = more brakes. It the reason why the SS has bigger brakes than the LS/LT and the reason I would spend and extra grand or two on brakes because I'm already spending 4k+ on suspension and 6k+ on a supercharger.
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:59 PM   #9
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That said there is a reason why GM blessed the CTS-V and the Corvette ZR-1 (which is a much lighter car) with larger brakes.
Yes, the reason was that you get what you pay for... its not needed from an engineering stand point (neither are the exotic discs on the ZR1). But when you spend that much money you expect to get over engineering.


The stock brakes on the SS will handle anything you can put into the chassis.

Leave well enough alone.
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Leader View Post
And what about adding horsepower would make anyone think that they need to add $1000+ worth of calipers (and who knows what else to make them work) to an already $4000+ (on the street for other cars) brake package? Those two extra pistons will likely take your braking distance down 10 feet if that.... How often are you dropping to a dead stop? I guarantee you will have no extra need for those pistons while drag racing or even some spirited canyon carving. While yes in many cars you absolutely need to upgrade the brakes as you add some balls (4thgens for example) this is NOT one of those cars. I've tracked higher power to weight ratio cars with less brakes and they had no problems finishing a lapping session and braking just fine.

Spend $100 on some steel braided lines if it already doesn't have them and then take the rest of your money and buy some more engine mods... ever hear "if it ain't broke don't fix it".... this is one of those times.

+eleventybillion.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Mero Mero View Post
To be perfectly honest I'm semi OCD and it annoys me that the rear brakes are bigger than the front brakes and most of my decision to swap them would be based on the fact that I like my front brakes to be bigger.
I'm also not saying that you NEED bigger brakes on this car, it already does have a lot of brakes and I personally am not sold on all that six-pistol caliper crap. My e30 has single piston calipers and 10.24in rotors all around and they can still lock up drag radials. You are entirely correct in that braided SS lines, combined with a good pad will add more than sufficient braking power most of the time.
That said there is a reason why GM blessed the CTS-V and the Corvette ZR-1 (which is a much lighter car) with larger brakes. Personally brakes are an area where I don't want to save money that's where I want to spend it, brakes keep me alive a lot of time. If you want to go quickly at more places than just the drag strip more power = more brakes. It the reason why the SS has bigger brakes than the LS/LT and the reason I would spend and extra grand or two on brakes because I'm already spending 4k+ on suspension and 6k+ on a supercharger.
Yes there is. It's called sales. BBKs are sexy. Very sexy. They most certainly help sell cars. Hell, I'm piecing together (in my head) a post-college C5Z build, and it's getting 4-pots all around, just because I don't believe in sliding calipers on sports cars. They work well, but Monobloc caliper setups work better under track driving. The Camaro has plenty of swept surface and monobloc calipers already. Steel braided brake lines, pads, and rotors are most of what you need.
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Old 11-20-2008, 04:36 PM   #11
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I thought one of the GM add-ons that were going to be shown at SEMA and there was a video showing, was a big-brake upgrade for the Camaro.
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Mero Mero View Post
To be perfectly honest I'm semi OCD and it annoys me that the rear brakes are bigger than the front brakes and most of my decision to swap them would be based on the fact that I like my front brakes to be bigger.
I'm also not saying that you NEED bigger brakes on this car, it already does have a lot of brakes and I personally am not sold on all that six-pistol caliper crap. My e30 has single piston calipers and 10.24in rotors all around and they can still lock up drag radials. You are entirely correct in that braided SS lines, combined with a good pad will add more than sufficient braking power most of the time.
That said there is a reason why GM blessed the CTS-V and the Corvette ZR-1 (which is a much lighter car) with larger brakes. Personally brakes are an area where I don't want to save money that's where I want to spend it, brakes keep me alive a lot of time. If you want to go quickly at more places than just the drag strip more power = more brakes. It the reason why the SS has bigger brakes than the LS/LT and the reason I would spend and extra grand or two on brakes because I'm already spending 4k+ on suspension and 6k+ on a supercharger.
Fractionally bigger and negligibly. Its SUCH a small difference its not like the rears are 14inch and the fronts are 11. They did it like that for a reason. The vehicle is still proportioned to brake the fronts harder, as is any vehicle.

I understand your feelings but engineers from GM and Brembo designed this system for this car to brake exceptionally well, its an exquisite system, and you will get almost no gains for your money. Don't bother.
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:59 AM   #13
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Well like all mods the car needs to be driven first to determine what's needed/wanted. More than likely the stock brakes will hit ABS with any street tire so you're more than likely correct. Only way you would need to upgrade is if it has fade problems but I have a feeling it wont. After all bigger brakes add unsprung mass and if you're right about them not being needed for braking power then they would just slow acceleration. At least my observation still stands and we know we can fit at least 19" rims for radials...
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:49 PM   #14
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Well like all mods the car needs to be driven first to determine what's needed/wanted. More than likely the stock brakes will hit ABS with any street tire so you're more than likely correct. Only way you would need to upgrade is if it has fade problems but I have a feeling it wont. After all bigger brakes add unsprung mass and if you're right about them not being needed for braking power then they would just slow acceleration. At least my observation still stands and we know we can fit at least 19" rims for radials...
Based on the GS Race car concept I would believe 18 inch wheels may fit as well. That race car has 18 inch wheels, and unless they made the brakes smaller than stock (possible but not likely), they "should" fit.
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Old 11-21-2008, 05:36 PM   #15
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The stock brakes are can take pretty much what you can throw at it, by my understanding. If you want to improve your braking distance then get some grippyer tires. Michellin pilot sport ps2 tires for an example.
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:40 PM   #16
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Based on the GS Race car concept I would believe 18 inch wheels may fit as well. That race car has 18 inch wheels, and unless they made the brakes smaller than stock (possible but not likely), they "should" fit.
They did.



Rear brake close up.



1-2 piston sliding caliper. (Looks like 1)

Front brake close up



4 Piston Monoblock Brembo.
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:11 AM   #17
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Even though the stock brakes may work in 99% of the time, I also like brakes that I know can handle whatever I throw at them.

But bigger brakes usually add unsprung weight, which affects handling and ride...

That is the advantage of the Carbon Ceramic brakes like from the ZR1, you can upgrade to 15+ inch rotors and actually lose unsprung weight and a braking system that will likely never fade in performance not matter the race conditions.
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Old 11-22-2008, 02:16 AM   #18
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If someone wants to spend a bunch on a brake upgrade, have at it! And, there's nothing wrong with looking at any and all upgrades for this new Camaro. I'd love to see all sorts of ideas thrown out there for ALL enthusiasts to enjoy and contemplate.
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Old 11-22-2008, 08:59 AM   #19
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I'm sure the stock Brembo will do a fine job. If you really need an upgrade then I would look into a two piece slotted rotors, better pads, steal braided lines, and braking fluid.
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Old 12-15-2008, 07:19 PM   #20
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i love the 6 piston brake kit on the zr1 and the cts v. i think i would add it to my upgrade list.
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