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Old 11-19-2008, 07:28 PM   #1
Fandango
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I wrote back to Congress...

I hope everyone will join me in this or at least respond to their congress representatives.

This is how I feel and I want other to know whether I'm correct or incorrect in my assumptions.

Dear Mrs. Brown-Waite:

I am an MBA student, business owner, husband, father and concerned American. I am writing to you because I am concerned about the "Auto Bailout" bill that will go before congress. First off, I want to say that I was weary about such a huge $700 billion bill. People have to understand this is an unprecedented amount of money that will be set aside to aid the financial industry, a market that comes with a relative amount of risk as it is. I consider myself to be conservative and see that any heavy expenditure on behalf of our government is risky. I agree on almost all the points you made in your e-mail. Wall Street would benefit the most from this, not Main Street. However, I have to support our "Big Three" relief plan. I do believe that it is survival of the fittest when it comes to business. I say that this applies for all industries and markets. Our American Auto industry has been the backbone of out work force and it faces a very real danger of being no more. But all is not lost. I'm part of a few forums that discuss how there have been many strides in making better and more fuel efficient cars and still appeal to Americans. Of the $700 billion that will be set aside, $25 billion of it will help a majority of people directly and indirectly. I understand that the $25 will basically alleviate the union contracts or fulfill them all together, then easily fulfill retirement and pension costs for the years to come while the companies transition their plants and eliminate inventory, and retool their industry to fit the new needs of the American driver, which is fuel efficiency and quality. By supporting this bill for the auto makers, I think the American people will show that there is a sense of confidence bestowed upon out great auto companies by out leaders that they can pull out of this, that they can weather the storm. Above all, Main Street will reap the rewards. They need your support. Therefore, I'm showing mine. I want to see our Automotive industry make a comeback. Either way, help or no help, All three companies will pull through. The Aid will give the auto industry a boost. Bankruptcy will hurt more people than help, i.e. Main Street, there are a lot of folks' lives at stake if only one of those three go bankrupt. Imagine if all three go.

I am a gear head. I love cars. Particularly the muscle cars. Gas runs through my veins and I love to hear a throaty V8 engine. I know that these cars won't get us to from point A to point B as much any more. There will be a lot less of these on the road and I've come to grips with this. The Camaro, Corvette, Challenger, Charger, Mustang and Viper are what I think America stands for: Power, uniqueness, speed, resiliency and beauty. They are icons of our past present and future. Like I said earlier, these aren't getting us from point A to point B any more, however, to see these icons disappear is like taking hot dogs out of a baseball game and replacing them with rice cakes. If the $25 billion in aid for the Auto Industry is passed, they would call it a "Legacy Cost" making it sound very negative. I see it as duty to "preserve" that legacy. I hope I'm making sense. This would not only preserve our legacy, but help strengthen and redefine that legacy and make "made in America" mean more than just words again.

I hope this helps clarify what I truly believe to be the hopes of many Americans.

Sincerely,

Alejandro Garcia

Manager of Operations

Pediatric Care Center of Pasco, PA

Urgi-Kids of Florida, PA
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:34 PM   #2
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Nicely put. But there is one major item I am confused about. The Big 3 are asking for low-interest loans that will be repaid in a specified amount of time. They are not asking for a "bail out" and I hate that it keeps getting referred to as such. Also, I didn't think the money they are asking for is part of the $700b. Perhaps others can confirm these two points.
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:46 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by camaropete View Post
Nicely put. But there is one major item I am confused about. The Big 3 are asking for low-interest loans that will be repaid in a specified amount of time. They are not asking for a "bail out" and I hate that it keeps getting referred to as such. Also, I didn't think the money they are asking for is part of the $700b. Perhaps others can confirm these two points.
yes they are specifically asking for part of the 700 billion, or at least thats how leading democrats are phrasing it.

Personally I have to believe two things: 1 if push comes to shove there are more than a couple of different ways Department of energy to name one that can just give up to 7 billion dollars without approval from the house or senate. If GM is really hurting come January 1 I think they will get something

2 GM knows that if it can last till Jan 20th it WILL get help. are you telling me GM isnt putting together a plan that will get it to that point? They just need to get to the finish line it doesnt matter how fast.
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:47 PM   #4
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Exclamation Voting Is Not Enough

A continuing argument from those politically active members of the board is that we should not complain if we don't vote. I completely agree that voting is an important way of expressing preference in an election.

However, the US system preferences only 2 successful political parties by design, and that makes it impossible for citizens to express their interests by merely voting for the candidate or party of choice. In all democracies, the role of a party is to build an election-winning coalition in order to fulfill what it perceives is most important to its citizens and its country. Foreign democracies sometimes have many parties that vie for power, and they attain power by building coalitions, negotiating issues, and making clear what their intentions are. It is easier for them because they don't have to cover every issue the way that 2-party systems do. In a 2-party system, like the United States, parties build coalitions of voters instead of coalitions with other parties. It is more important to appeal to certain demographics, and those demographics tend to vote based on what policies affect them. Both systems are equally good as far as policy and governance. The problem, however, with representing the populace in a 2-party system is that it is unclear what mandate a party has upon taking office. It could be one issue or another, and public officials are extremely uncertain of what policies are most important to those who voted for them. All elected officials have this problem, but it is worse in 2-party systems because most candidates address a wider range of issues since their party addresses more issues than parties in countries that have to build political coalitions.

In order to make clear what you want your elected official to do, you have to contact your elected official. It is their job to represent you, and they will do it if you tell them what values you want them to represent. You are your official's boss, and you should pull rank whenever they question you. As the constituent, you have the power to vote for or against the official come election day. In between, you have the power to pick up your phone and call the office of the man or woman representing your district, state, and country anytime you please.

:flag1: This is the most compelling thing about American democracy. You have the power to influence policy simply by calling. Very few people contact their legislators, so they act on their beliefs rather than yours. Idiots like Florida's Senator Nelson pop up and sway those who believe CAFE regulations are good, and we end up not getting what we want. Had a bunch of people in Florida called his office, he would never have co-sponsored legislation raising CAFE standards.

It might not feel like you're making a difference when you call. Sometimes, they just won't do what you ask, but it is important that you express dissent anyway because it makes them uneasy about neglecting opinions in the future. As more people call with perspectives different than theirs, they will be compelled to change their policy preferences from how they feel to how their constituents feel or they will lose their office. The problem in the previous sentence is that it assumes that people care how their elected officials vote. If you care, then you will act. All you have to do is sit at the computer for a few minutes to figure out the phone number. You can call any publicly elected official. Their office number is public record. Don't expect to talk to the President or even your local officials. Expect some secretary to take a message for you, but ask to be called back or to speak to the elected official anyway because it shows that the issue is important. In any case, the elected official will get the message. It will make them think about the way that they vote, and your call may change their mind.

Can you imagine the pride of changing policy? Not many people call to thank an elected official for their service and ask them to serve their constituency by changing their political opinion on 1 piece of legislation. Your call could very well turn an unattainable majority into a signed bill—a law, public policy. Your call could be the difference between never happening and the standard policy of the United States or whichever country you reside.

Voting isn't enough. Express yourself. At the end of a 5-minute phone call, you'll feel empowered that you expressed your opinions and values to the person who represents you. It is their job to represent your values, and they can only do that so long as you express what you want.

I appreciate your time reading this long post. Do all of us a favor. Contact your elected officials and ask them to save the American auto industry. :flag2:
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:20 PM   #5
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haha I loved the hotdog rice cake analogy. It's a great letter than I 100% agree with, would you mind if I sent pretty much a copy of that to my rep? (of course with personal details changed to fit me)
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:31 PM   #6
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I think they have it all wrong with bank loans etc.

Giving banks money to put us more in debit. It's like a suppository up the exit. Instead of a steak down the entry.

People need more income before they are gonna want to buy new rides.

In the internet age people found out about waiting 1-2 years, not leasing, building FICO etc.

But how are people supposed to go get loans when incomes shrink? It does not make sense to me. They are bankers thinking like bankers. Not buyers thinking like buyers.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaropete View Post
Nicely put. But there is one major item I am confused about. The Big 3 are asking for low-interest loans that will be repaid in a specified amount of time. They are not asking for a "bail out" and I hate that it keeps getting referred to as such. Also, I didn't think the money they are asking for is part of the $700b. Perhaps others can confirm these two points.
Yes, I'm aware of that but's why I used quotes and then refered to it as aid. So, yeah, not a bail out. Only used it in quotes to mock what it is not.

Please pass it on if anyone likes. GM could use all the help we can give them.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:37 PM   #8
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haha I loved the hotdog rice cake analogy. It's a great letter than I 100% agree with, would you mind if I sent pretty much a copy of that to my rep? (of course with personal details changed to fit me)
Yes, pass it along! It would be my pleasure!
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:48 PM   #9
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bump beecause im being forced to and for america

Last edited by shank0668; 11-19-2008 at 08:51 PM. Reason: im being forced to
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:54 PM   #10
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It's been an hour and all I got is the post from the guy who I referred to the thread. This is very disappointing.
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Old 11-19-2008, 09:01 PM   #11
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the world is not enough
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Old 11-19-2008, 09:05 PM   #12
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Good job doing this! We don't take nearly as much part in this government as we should.
I did the same (my own letter a few hours ago...). Who knows what might come of this.
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Old 11-19-2008, 09:07 PM   #13
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+1...though if this turns "nasty" political...you know what happens, Blur.
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Old 11-19-2008, 09:07 PM   #14
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I didnt vote. i didnt deam either canidate to be qualified, ********.

Last edited by GTAHVIT; 11-20-2008 at 09:03 AM. Reason: Over the political line
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Old 11-19-2008, 09:11 PM   #15
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I heard that congress has no plans at this time to vote on any kind of aid package for the big three even with gm warning of a possible bankruptcy by years end. So unfortunatly right now its looking that gm will file for bankruptcy before the camaro goes into prodution. Hopefully it will not affect our beloved camaro. I think the dam greedy gas companys should bail them out with their record profits they been making latley. Just my 02
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Old 11-19-2008, 09:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
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+1...though if this turns "nasty" political...you know what happens, Blur.
This isn't politics. This is government. It is a little education for those who think that their votes don't make a difference. To some extent, they're right, but if they call their elected official, whether they voted for or against that person, they can tell that person what they expect. There are some of us on Camaro5 that are compelled to act, but so many don't act on CAFE or in general. Today, I want everyone to commit to action that will save General Motors.
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Old 11-19-2008, 09:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
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This isn't politics. This is government. It is a little education for those who think that their votes don't make a difference. To some extent, they're right, but if they call their elected official, whether they voted for or against that person, they can tell that person what they expect. There are some of us on Camaro5 that are compelled to act, but so many don't act on CAFE or in general. Today, I want everyone to commit to action that will save General Motors.
I know, and make no mistake I agree with you 100+%.
I just meant that if bob says something nasty to tom and tom f's off bob and frank butts in...it's thread closed, like 'normal'.
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Old 11-19-2008, 09:51 PM   #18
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I know, and make no mistake I agree with you 100+%.
I just meant that if bob says something nasty to tom and tom f's off bob and frank butts in...it's thread closed, like 'normal'.
I think we're all on the same team here. We can call ourselves the Panther* Lobby.

All of us support the US auto industry surviving. Even the guys who came to Camaro5 to talk about Challengers and Mustangs believe in the American auto industry as a whole. We all need government support now, just like the Japanese have. It's time for our government to be as competitive as theirs.

Lobby Congress for American cars! :flag2: This is democracy at work.

Feel free to post any letters, phone calls, or any lobby-related behavior in this thread.

*Panther—this was the rumored name of the Camaro before it was released. It hasn't been released yet, so we can't call ourselves the Camaro lobby. This is more appropriate.
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Old 11-19-2008, 10:11 PM   #19
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Blur, I couldn't agree with you more, I was calling and writing my congressmen even before I could vote. (those younger than 18 try this you get some funny responses). I completely believe that even if the candidate you voted for lost doesn't mean you sit idly by for the next ___ years and do nothing. If somebody asked you want gift you wanted for your birthday you would answer them right? Well your elected official is asking so tell them what you want. The act of voting is only effects a small part of what happens in Washington. Please people for the good of the call your reps, and don't just call them about the Big 3 call them about everything. Stay informed, check their website they usually try and keep you informed if you just look for the information. You would really be surprised how personable most of these people really are.

Ok this has turned into a little bit more of a rant than I intended but I feel very strongly about this. I hope I didn't step on any toes and I apologize if I did as that was not my intention.
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Old 11-19-2008, 11:33 PM   #20
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Post A letter to my Congressmen

I wanted to share this with those who could use a letter to send off to their congressmen/women. Or with those who just wanted to read something "interesting".

I don't mind one bit if anybody wants to copy/paste this to their senators/representatives. In fact, I encourage you to!!! TAG UR IT is already sending it to his senators in Texas, for instance. We can make a difference...these people need to hear from us whether they want to or not. They don't work for their parties -- they work for You and Me, so tell them what to do.

EDIT: Take care, though -- this letter is not about the current administration. I only mentioned it in order to draw a contrast between the big bailout package, and this bridge loan. So don't get offended, or post angry responses, please. This is about the Big Three.


-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------

Dear Senator xxxxxxxx,

I am a 20 year old college student attending Buffalo State College. I am earning a Technology Education degree, and expect to graduate on time in 2011. I am also a very concerned American. And I want to express my concerns to you as my elected representative in congress. Also know that I sent this verbatim to the other senator.

I must say that I am disappointed in the United States Congress. This body shelled out 700 Billion dollars and gave it to the Bush Administration about a month ago with, as far as I’ve been informed, very little strings attached. Or else they were weak strings. Congress gave control of this obscene amount of money to an administration that has shown ZERO competence in the area of finances.. Yet we were supposed to trust them to handle it properly. Unfortunately, they are not -- instead they are exemplifying their incompetence, yet again. I supported the “bailout” package under one condition; that it was NOT given to the administration to do as they will with it. It was much too large a sum to be thrown about – but I felt it COULD help us out of this slump. Unfortunately, I did not make my voice known. And so, like many other issues – the concerns of this taxpayer went largely unnoticed. That was a mistake. I intend not to make the same one again, so I am contacting you with the genuine hope of a non-automated reply.

As you well know, there is a very polarizing issue surrounding the “Big Three” US automakers, General Motors, Chrysler, and Ford. I have been following the Auto Industry extensively for the past 3 years – making mental and digital note of any significant changes and shifts in ideology. I know they weren’t spectacular 10 years ago. To say they were competitive with foreign automakers would be a laughable statement. These companies that took advantage of the “Big Three’s” contentment with the vehicles they were producing. The Foreign makers very quickly surpassed GM, Ford, and Chrysler in terms of quality and efficiency, and in so doing, rapidly gained the respect of the American people for their product. Now, times have changed, domestic vehicles are on par or BETTER than their foreign competitors (according to JDPower and Associates, and many other automobile publications). They are slowly earning the respect of the American people back with quality products like the Chevy Malibu, the Ford Edge, and the Chrysler Town & Country. This will be a difficult task; but it is a task that I believe they are ready to take on.

The changes they’ve made in terms of management, operating costs, and labor costs in order to become more competitive with the invading foreign companies are astounding. WITHOUT the government’s aid or instruction, they took on multi-billion dollar restructuring plans designed to eliminate the quality, reliability, efficiency, and cost gap between them and foreign makers. In 2010, the most significant of these changes will take effect; the Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association, which will shift the entire healthcare burden from the company to the union. UAW employees have also conceded that all new hires will make HALF of what they used to. These and other moves have nearly eliminated the cost gap between Domestic and foreign companies. They also hired and “freed” employees and executives to create breathtaking new products that are class-leading in every way. The Malibu, for instance, has the HIGHEST non-hybrid fuel economy rating in the entire market, and recently won a Car of the Year award. There are many, many, many more vehicles like this in their lineup. However, due to the funds they poured into this restructuring, they were not ready for such a rapid deterioration of the economy and car market (which, to be honest, was largely allowed to happen by the government due to lack of oversight and accountability). In my opinion, they got burned by doing what was RIGHT: reshaping their business on their own.

I’ve been watching the hearings yesterday, and today…and I found it personally insulting how obnoxious some of the senators seemed to be towards the CEOs, as though this was entirely their fault. Two of them, Mr. Mullaly and Mr. Nardelli, were hired within the last year – so how could it be THEIR faults?? And Mr. Wagoner is responsible for investing in China’s emerging car market – returning some funds to the US, and increasing our standing in the global market. China Loves their Buicks. Such behavior and attitude seemed to exhibit some sense of ineptitude on the part of our congress, and a general lack of knowledge. This is very disappointing, because these men and women are supposed to be our leaders, how can they be so ill-informed? The request the automakers are making is NOT a big one. They want a 25 billion dollar loan in order to sustain themselves till 2010. This money is not being infused into a volatile marketplace under the direction of an inept administration like the “Bailout” package; it’s being infused into three companies that pledge to pay it back in full with interest! And these companies are poised to take back the market – they just need valuable time. And I might remind you that the last time congress helped its automakers (Chrysler, some 30 years ago), they repaid the loan early, and made the taxpayers some money in the deal. Why is this expected to be any different? However, I had hoped that the senators on the committee would make the right choice. I had faith (perhaps it was misplaced) that they would help our ailing automakers.

However I read an article today that said that congress has cancelled a vote on this bill. And I’m finding resistance of all sorts to this request for the money. Why? How is that possible? And what does congress intend to do about it?

I am severely disappointed in our ‘leaders’ leadership. For the record, I WANT you and the other senators to vote FOR this legislation. Yet you all seem willing to allow a vital industry to fail, and risk sending our economy spiraling into a full-scale depression because you don’t want to loan a paltry 25 billion dollars (that will be paid back!). I would very much appreciate a response, non-automated, that explains the situation in congress to me. An explanation of what you intend to do to save the “Big Three”.

Thank you, Senator.

Sincerely,
"Me"
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Old 11-19-2008, 11:59 PM   #21
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First of all - Mr. Fandango -- God Bless you for sending your note. I just wish more Americans would do the same.

As to the 'bailout' - it is NOT a bailout -- we are asking for a LOAN which we will repay with INTEREST.

The Bailout of the banking industry is different.......the government is proposing the purchase of 'toxic loans' -- which - and please correct me if I'm wrong -- is a bailout -- we are giving money to banks to cover their bad judgement.......they are now free of these 'toxic loans' ........the government COULD make money IF they collect on the toxic mortgages -- but I don't get a 'warm-fuzzy' knowing that the government is going to be put in charge of anything...................

Big difference.

Yet we have so many 'experts' that miss this salient point.

If I'm wrong -- please show me and I'll shut up.
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Old 11-20-2008, 12:12 AM   #22
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Dragon, .

We all need to follow your example and write our Congressmen.

I'll be drafting mine tomorrow.
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Old 11-20-2008, 12:18 AM   #23
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You know what - you're really something Dragon.

Dragon for President! (Not right now, but when you're ready)
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Old 11-20-2008, 12:21 AM   #24
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either way... the government is money hungry and wont want to give out a penny... i hav reason to believe that thier not going to ...not... do anything either... this is a pretty big deal and has large negitive long term effects if there is no action taken... then again... it is the government...
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Old 11-20-2008, 12:27 AM   #25
09'Z28
The "Mad Hamster"
 
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Drives: '71 Camaro, '90 mx5, '71 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro5 View Post
Dragon for President! (Not right now, but when you're ready)
i hope this is allowed...
http://www.tsgnet.com/pres.php?id=38...sbhpofzf&altl=
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