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Old 08-23-2010, 01:40 PM   #451
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CTS-V is all wheel drive? Better check your facts a little better.
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Old 08-23-2010, 02:23 PM   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rez333 View Post
You don't know what you're talking about, obviously. The 2011's track time of 2:58s is right up there with the Z06 and 6s faster than an all-wheel-drive CTS-V. No other company has managed to make a 2-wheel-drive car over 3800lbs go that fast. All cars 3800lbs or heavier getting those times are all AWD.

Do you really think GM knows how to make a 4000lb Z/28 faster than the AWD CTS-V and as fast as a 3175lb Z06? I didn't think so. Ford's achievement is magical because when you look at it, it sounds impossible.
I look at it and it doesn't sound impossible. Its not like the GTR vs Z06 'ring times from a couple years ago. Different drivers on different days can account for a couple seconds without much issue. Thats why I like the Lightning Lap competition from Car&Driver. And if you look at their times between different years, you can see several seconds difference between unchanged models.
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Old 08-23-2010, 03:27 PM   #453
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Originally Posted by jayman View Post
the cts-v is not all wheel drive. Never has been and never will be.
I suppose this article is wrong then:
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2010/05...arts-from.html

Granted though, it's true from different years of the Lightning Lap that the results seem inconsistent; but I just don't see how the Z/28's handling could outmatch the CTS-V. The CTS-V already gets a 3.9s 0-60 so we know it's fast in a straight line, and with the magnetic shocks we know it has amazing handling too. I just don't see GM making a cheaper car (Z/28) go faster than the CTS-V.

Take the Camaro SS for instance. You would think they would have produced a car that clearly outmatches the 2010 Mustang GT, but no it didn't. The 100+HP advantage could easily account for some of the areas where the SS was superior to the GT, but the GT beat the SS in many handling areas.
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Old 08-23-2010, 03:33 PM   #454
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Originally Posted by rez333 View Post
I suppose this article is wrong then:
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2010/05...arts-from.html

>
No, it's right. The regular CTS is available in AWD, but not the V.
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Old 08-23-2010, 03:41 PM   #455
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The CTS series is available AWD. The CTS-V is rear wheel only.
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Old 08-23-2010, 03:51 PM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rez333 View Post
I suppose this article is wrong then:
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2010/05...arts-from.html

Granted though, it's true from different years of the Lightning Lap that the results seem inconsistent; but I just don't see how the Z/28's handling could outmatch the CTS-V. The CTS-V already gets a 3.9s 0-60 so we know it's fast in a straight line, and with the magnetic shocks we know it has amazing handling too. I just don't see GM making a cheaper car (Z/28) go faster than the CTS-V.

Take the Camaro SS for instance. You would think they would have produced a car that clearly outmatches the 2010 Mustang GT, but no it didn't. The 100+HP advantage could easily account for some of the areas where the SS was superior to the GT, but the GT beat the SS in many handling areas.
The MR shocks are as much for ride comfort as they are for performance. The Camaro could do without them and have equally good handling, but it would be a lot harsher. Then there is the weight advantage it will have over the CTS-V. GM already makes a cheaper car than the CTS-V that outperforms it, it's the Corvette Grand Sport.

For the Mustang, you are ignoring the fact that nearly all the comparisons with the 2010 GT were against the track pack equipped cars. Even then, I don't recall too many instances where the GT ran quicker times than an SS. It might have posted better numbers for calibrated tests, but it wasn't enough to top the overall performance of the Camaro.
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:37 PM   #457
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I believe we're going to see a great improvement in handling from SS. I'm sure there will still be some bugs to be worked out, but with SS being out for a few years by the time Z28 arrives, I think that's plenty of opportunity to look and feel out what the deficiencies are. We know they are not looking into what the aftermarket is doing to the cars, and I think they won't be as tied to trying to make the care pleasable to as many people as they had to with SS/LS/LT. They needed to re-establish CAMARO, and now they can focus on trying to keep us enthusiasts interested and coming into the showrooms. More aggressive suspension, some trade-offs in terms of NVH for some more power and traction, and I think the doubters will be relatively impressed.

JMVHO.
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Old 08-24-2010, 05:53 PM   #458
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The MR shocks are as much for ride comfort as they are for performance. The Camaro could do without them and have equally good handling, but it would be a lot harsher. Then there is the weight advantage it will have over the CTS-V. GM already makes a cheaper car than the CTS-V that outperforms it, it's the Corvette Grand Sport.

For the Mustang, you are ignoring the fact that nearly all the comparisons with the 2010 GT were against the track pack equipped cars. Even then, I don't recall too many instances where the GT ran quicker times than an SS. It might have posted better numbers for calibrated tests, but it wasn't enough to top the overall performance of the Camaro.
my bad about the AWD.

To your point, I guess we will have to see. You have some good points, but I might add that the Corvette is a sports car, the Camaro technically is not. The Corvette easily out-performs the CTS-V by virtue of its substantial weight advantage, a substantial weight-advantage that the Z/28 does not have. I would also argue that the CTS-V platform is a better performance platform than the Camaro's Zeta platform.

The real competition will be in 2014 when the new platforms come out for Camaro and Mustang. That will be a glorious war to behold, as the Camaro will lose its weight disadvantage and the Mustang will lose its SRA.

Last edited by rez333; 08-24-2010 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:37 PM   #459
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my bad about the AWD.

To your point, I guess we will have to see. You have some good points, but I might add that the Corvette is a sports car, the Camaro technically is not. The Corvette easily out-performs the CTS-V by virtue of its substantial weight advantage, a substantial weight-advantage that the Z/28 does not have. I would also argue that the CTS-V platform is a better performance platform than the Camaro's Zeta platform.
isn't the cts-v on a slightly modified zeta platform right now?
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:59 PM   #460
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isn't the cts-v on a slightly modified zeta platform right now?
Sorta. Zeta is based off Sigma but its more than 'slightly modified'. There are probably more differences than similarities.
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:48 PM   #461
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Quote:
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isn't the cts-v on a slightly modified zeta platform right now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Sorta. Zeta is based off Sigma but its more than 'slightly modified'. There are probably more differences than similarities.
I'm sure Fen could deliver a paper on the differences...but basically -- Sigma is an IRS RWD platform. Zeta is an IRS RWD platform -- that's where the similarities end.

Zeta features a more advanced IRS setup, but "less" advanced front. Zeta is mildly lighter, cheaper, and more modular than Sigma. Sigma is more refined, leading to its Cadillac-exclusive service. Sigma is also much older than the Zeta platform.

I don't know details...but they are very different.
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:59 AM   #462
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Just one thing.

now that the 11 Gt500 SvtPP is a great handler, beat the Grand Sport around VIR
and has th muscle to run low 12's stock.....

what says this Shelby doesn't become the Golden egg......a collectable...

as they are going to cammer engines....it will be the last small block Shelby and maybe that enough to make it a collectable.


tough call. Don't hate me ...but i like the GT500. considering you can get a loaded up one for 50k otd

thats alost of car. its a pulley swap /plugs and canned tune (700dollars away from crushing A Zl575)

i priced out the mods.....1200 installed and your making 570 rwhp

that 5.4 is bullet proof...Ford Gt (40's) make over 1000 hp with this very same motor.
6 bolt main.

The Z28 is in a hard place... The vette and the caddy stand in its way......

I'm a GM guy, but occasionally i'll buy dodge or Ford.....i've had an Srt and a Svt product.

i can honestly say i was quite pleased with both.

One thing for certain these are great times!!
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:44 PM   #463
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that 5.4 is bullet proof...Ford Gt (40's) make over 1000 hp with this very same motor.
6 bolt main.
By the same motor i'm assuming you meant the block. A flat stock ford gt can get to 1000hp but you will blow the motor up if you run it hard. A lot has to be changed in the motor to make it reliable at 1000hp. I'm not attacking you, I am torn between a gt500 and the z28. But i am waiting to see what the z28 actually is before I buy anything.
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:27 PM   #464
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@Napper, do you really think the Z is in a hard place? Seeing as it's been well publicized that there is no pecking order anymore and the V is in an entirely different category I have to respectfully disagree. Now the Z won't outperform the Z06(close, maybe??) or ZR1(cause it's too heavy) but I don't think it has to be slotted behind anything.
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:23 PM   #465
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@Napper, do you really think the Z is in a hard place? Seeing as it's been well publicized that there is no pecking order anymore and the V is in an entirely different category I have to respectfully disagree. Now the Z won't outperform the Z06(close, maybe??) or ZR1(cause it's too heavy) but I don't think it has to be slotted behind anything.
I don't think this car will be "restricted" by anything other than its price-point.

GM is doing a good job of differentiating its products lately. Catering similar offerings to completely different demographics.
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Old 10-09-2010, 09:52 PM   #466
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@Napper, do you really think the Z is in a hard place? Seeing as it's been well publicized that there is no pecking order anymore and the V is in an entirely different category I have to respectfully disagree. Now the Z won't outperform the Z06(close, maybe??) or ZR1(cause it's too heavy) but I don't think it has to be slotted behind anything.
I think most Z06 owners would love to have a reason to trade for a Z28.
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Old 10-13-2010, 03:58 AM   #467
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Here's a video of what a stock (white) 2011 GT500 SVT PP can do with some proper drag tires. The grey GT500 is pullied with drag radials and 3.73's. Anyone that really thinks the 2011 GT500's are only capable of 12.7's are sadly mistaken.
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:51 AM   #468
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No doubt about it, the GT500 is a fast car, and the '11s (MY and E.T both!) are quite kick ass. I hope that the Z (or the car that does not officially exist) has the 3.73 rear end ratio that the CTS-V uses.
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Old 10-26-2010, 04:51 PM   #469
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both cars are cool and I give props to anything that is fast.

I don't know why so many people feel threatened by the GT500 LOL.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:07 AM   #470
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2011 GT500 with just drag rubber on the rear otherwise stock. 11.35 at 121 mph.
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