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Old 08-03-2010, 12:51 PM   #101
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I posted this thread over on the Team Shelby site. While I have always been a Mustang guy, I remember well the muscle car wars of the 60's (when I was a pup) and the Cameros were well represented. But my favorite was always the Z28. When the government took over GM I figured that was the end of the Z28. That the car will not only be built but built in monster power form is great news for anyone who loves these cars. I doubt there will ever be another time in this country when we will see cars like these. Buy 'em now and enjoy them in the years to come.

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Old 08-03-2010, 12:52 PM   #102
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Exclamation what do i see!?

HUGE looking intake ports of the bumblebee type hiding behind that shroud! Chin is sick too man oh man i want 1!

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Old 08-03-2010, 12:53 PM   #103
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just think we could be dining on shelbys in a stock Camaro next year
Dining? (I love it)
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:06 PM   #104
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if they keep trying to out-do eachother wont the price tag get much higher and potential market get much smaller? there arent a whole lot of people capable and willing to spend 40grand(most likely more) for a model that will be outdated in a year or two.
That's the beauty of forced induction. Ford has proven that with nothing, but a blower swap, 700+ hp is easily doable. I would expect the same from the LSA if the internals are changed out for some forged pieces.
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:07 PM   #105
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:09 PM   #106
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That's the beauty of forced induction. Ford has proven that with nothing, but a blower swap, 700+ hp is easily doable. I would expect the same from the LSA if the internals are changed out for some forged pieces.
I am making 700 with bolt ons. Ran a best of 10.76 with all stock rear end components.



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Old 08-03-2010, 01:15 PM   #107
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I am making 700 with bolt ons. Ran a best of 10.76 with all stock rear end components.



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If you consider nitrous or a blower bolt ons, then you could say a gt500 has made well over 1,000hp with bolt ons. In fact, a ford gt with the "same" 5.4 has made over 1,400 RWHP with a stock short block other than some pins and itmade over 1,100 rwhp with a TOTALLY stock longblock. That's neither here nor there. GM and Ford have to make this power reliably enough to warranty. The current LSA and LS3 are not stout enough to offer over 700hp under warranty. It's just too risky. It would however be very simple to equip either with the proper rotating assembly to do so.
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:19 PM   #108
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Im curious to see how the IRS makes a difference against the SRA, Ford guys go on and on about how the GT500 is better than the SS and has that solid axle, im anxious to see what handling differences the IRS makes when the solid axle is put against a comparitivly performance based car rather than a lower model

...oh and LOL! to Radz28 XD
It'd be cool to get a small idea of how benefitial either IRS or SRA are. I'm not talking strength, but just planting the power. I guess we might find out in a little while

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Originally Posted by OldJedi View Post
Tran, Thanks for posting all of these great shots! What do you guys think of the lower brake line being exposed in the close up of the front wheel? I do not remember seeing a brake line being exposed like this before, usually they are mounted to the inside half of the caliper. I know it is still early and this is still just a prototype, it just seemed strange to me.
I don't know the technical term for that line, but I believe that's just a crossover tube for the fluid to the pistons on the outside of the caliper. I'm sorry if I didn't understand your comments correctly

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This is exactly what I was talking about. I'm assuming the camaro will handle and stop like a dream, just like the gt500. The easiest and most noticeable changes will be in the power department. When all it takes is a pulley and tune to pick up 100+ hp, these are dangerous waters. While the gt500's 5.4 has a higher power potential (short block wise) than pretty much anything anyone has to offer, those limits are way beyond what I feel will ever be offered to the public. There has to be a cap at some point. I just can't see these cars making over 700hp in stock form and if the lsa is beefed up a bit, both parties will be easily capable. 700 at the crank is CHUMP CHANGE for the 5.4 and an LSA with a beefier rotating assembly would be exactly the same way. I get excited just talking about this, but it depresses me because my lowly sti is going to be the slowest thing on the road

The 2011 gt500 already handles comparatively to the ls3 vette. I would expect the z28 to handle just as well, maybe slightly better, but in this price range there's not much you can do to get handling much better.
I don't know... I have a feeling getting close to 700 FWHP in LSA wouldn't be that far of a stretch. Look how much power many people here are pushing through their L99/LS3s; I believe LSA has another good 150 horse' before there's much to worry about. It already has good gaskets, oil squirters, and fuel system (among many other improvements not shared with LS3/L99) so, at least for me, 700 would be just fine. I'm looking for 550 through 600 at the tire, and if LSA can get me there will a little tuning and a couple bolt-ons, WOO HOO!!! At least you still have a fast STi, lol. The only thing my 4Runner is good at is some light off-roading

I expect Z28 should handle better than the GT500; there's no reason in my mind why it shouldn't. Whether-or-not that happens is out of my control, but I'm pretty sure we can all bank on that. I know the 5th Gen I rode in with just coil overs and sway bars stuck to the road like stink on sh*t.

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Originally Posted by Sax1031 View Post
If I had to guess by the MY 2013 the GT500 will be rated at 605ish hp. If not for MY 2012.
That's a big jump! I would be a little suprised to see it that high (I have no question it would take it without sweating), but sheesh!

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and my 2013 Z-28 will have 650 HP.
Well player

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Originally Posted by Sax1031 View Post
Possibly. I don't see the Z28 having more power than the ZR1.

Ford could go 660 hp next year.

I just don't think they will go ahead and raise the power that much at one time.
Who's to say ZR1 won't get a bump? I believe they've already said there's plenty of room to go with LS9

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Originally Posted by Sax1031 View Post


Ford has been going their for a couple of years.
But that's not a road-legal car with a VIN, is it? I forget. You could drive a ZL1 on the road legally if I remember correctly

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HUGE looking intake ports of the bumblebee type hiding behind that shroud! Chin is sick too man oh man i want 1!

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Old 08-03-2010, 01:21 PM   #109
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I am making 700 with bolt ons. Ran a best of 10.76 with all stock rear end components.



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Originally Posted by 8cd03gro View Post
If you consider nitrous or a blower bolt ons, then you could say a gt500 has made well over 1,000hp with bolt ons. In fact, a ford gt with the "same" 5.4 has made over 1,400 RWHP with a stock short block other than some pins and itmade over 1,100 rwhp with a TOTALLY stock longblock. That's neither here nor there. GM and Ford have to make this power reliably enough to warranty. The current LSA and LS3 are not stout enough to offer over 700hp under warranty. It's just too risky. It would however be very simple to equip either with the proper rotating assembly to do so.
I think Uncle was just saying his LSA makes 700 horse' pretty easily - that's all
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:24 PM   #110
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Ok, this may get me flamed or banned or just trashed... but if GM cant (or wont?) manage to just flat-out drop the hammer on the Mustang with this car... I am going to be so insanely disappointed and ashamed its not even funny.

The 6.2L has so much more available than GM is utilizing ... I can understand coming out with a car thats neck and neck "for the masses" but the Z28 isnt that car, the SS is... the Z28 has the ability to finally SLAM the door on the GT500.

a supercharged version of the Lxx motor should be able to put out viper-killing power... 650hp, as MANY of the C5 community knows already, is fairly easy to reach with these motors.

Come on General... we Camaro faithful have been losing this battle to the poontangs long enough! You made a car that looks like it should whoop some serious ass, and for all accounts, it does... but its time to stop JUST clearing the hurdles, blow this one out of the freakin water!
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:25 PM   #111
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I think with this pre-production mule they are more concerned with performance characteristics, so its kinda irrelevant to them what the car looks like at this point (meaning whatever is taped up or covered could be to hide potential Z28 badging or it could be just covering up current SS/ Chevy badging- I believe the latter). I would imagine they started this mule off from a SS platform since most of the enhancements will be mechanical. That said, I'm sure there is another powerplant in there as well as alot of suspension components replaced. I seriously doubt those wheels will make it to the production version ( I do like them though, they look like the ACR wheels for the 2010 Vipers)
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:26 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by 8cd03gro View Post
If you consider nitrous or a blower bolt ons, then you could say a gt500 has made well over 1,000hp with bolt ons. In fact, a ford gt with the "same" 5.4 has made over 1,400 RWHP with a stock short block other than some pins and itmade over 1,100 rwhp with a TOTALLY stock longblock. That's neither here nor there. GM and Ford have to make this power reliably enough to warranty. The current LSA and LS3 are not stout enough to offer over 700hp under warranty. It's just too risky. It would however be very simple to equip either with the proper rotating assembly to do so.
I have not "bolted on" an aftermarket blower or Nitrous system. My Camaro has a LSA engine...with bolt ons.

The LSA is more durable than an LS3. Steel crank, better rods and pistons and a better block than the LS3. Sure the piston and rods are the same material but they are beefier.

Now I agree that the LSA probably would not validate for 700 horsepower. But until GM tests it at lets say..... 590 horsepower we won't know.

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Old 08-03-2010, 01:27 PM   #113
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Ok, this may get me flamed or banned or just trashed... but if GM cant (or wont?) manage to just flat-out drop the hammer on the Mustang with this car... I am going to be so insanely disappointed and ashamed its not even funny.

The 6.2L has so much more available than GM is utilizing its not even funny... I can understand coming out with a car thats neck and neck "for the masses" but the Z28 isnt that car, the SS is... the Z28 has the ability to finally SLAM the door on the GT500.

a supercharged version of the Lxx motor should be able to put out viper-killing power... 650hp, as MANY of the C5 community knows already, is fairly easy to reach with these motors.

Come on General... we Camaro faithful have been losing this battle to the poontangs long enough! You made a car that looks like it should whoop some serious ass, and for all accounts, it does... but its time to stop JUST clearing the hurdles, blow this one out of the freakin water!
In a perfect world that would be great ,but you have to remember that in order to compete with the GT500 they must be in the same ball park when it comes to price. This in the end will dictate how much performance it gets.
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:29 PM   #114
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Ok, this may get me flamed or banned or just trashed... but if GM cant (or wont?) manage to just flat-out drop the hammer on the Mustang with this car... I am going to be so insanely disappointed and ashamed its not even funny.

The 6.2L has so much more available than GM is utilizing its not even funny... I can understand coming out with a car thats neck and neck "for the masses" but the Z28 isnt that car, the SS is... the Z28 has the ability to finally SLAM the door on the GT500.

a supercharged version of the Lxx motor should be able to put out viper-killing power... 650hp, as MANY of the C5 community knows already, is fairly easy to reach with these motors.

Come on General... we Camaro faithful have been losing this battle to the poontangs long enough! You made a car that looks like it should whoop some serious ass, and for all accounts, it does... but its time to stop JUST clearing the hurdles, blow this one out of the freakin water!
The Z28 doesn't have the ability to slam the door on the GT500.

If you were to buy a 2011 GT500 today you could take it to your ford dealer, buy the super pack and have it installed, and leave the dealership with 660hp and your warranty still intact. And this has been going on for years now.
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:30 PM   #115
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Robin, Really???

Stock tranny rearend and halfshafts??? Manual right?


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Old 08-03-2010, 01:33 PM   #116
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I really wish people would leave mods out of this. That only proves how much money someone has. Factory HP is why this car is so important to me. I already have a camaro with a Maggie ,but it's not the same bragging rights as factory HP.
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:33 PM   #117
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I don't know... I have a feeling getting close to 700 FWHP in LSA wouldn't be that far of a stretch. Look how much power many people here are pushing through their L99/LS3s; I believe LSA has another good 150 horse' before there's much to worry about. It already has good gaskets, oil squirters, and fuel system (among many other improvements not shared with LS3/L99) so, at least for me, 700 would be just fine. I'm looking for 550 through 600 at the tire, and if LSA can get me there will a little tuning and a couple bolt-ons, WOO HOO!!! At least you still have a fast STi, lol. The only thing my 4Runner is good at is some light off-roading

I expect Z28 should handle better than the GT500; there's no reason in my mind why it shouldn't. Whether-or-not that happens is out of my control, but I'm pretty sure we can all bank on that. I know the 5th Gen I rode in with just coil overs and sway bars stuck to the road like stink on sh*t.


Oh, I know the lsa is capable, but you have to think in terms of mass production. Tunes can't be even close to as aggressive as aftermarket because the car has to run perfect in Denver and Florida. It's got to handle being beat on, repeatedly for a hundred thousand miles plus, per GM warranty. It would be very tough for GM to bump output to 700hp with the current lsa and maintain warranty. There's a reason the ls9 exists and it's making "only" 640hp. I agree with you on the z28's handling, but the gt500's handling is good, VERY good. It handles right with the base vette. If the z28 does handle better, it won't be by much. I would be willing to be we will see the same perormance difference between the z28 and gt500 that we see between the 5.0 and ss. . . almost nothing.


LOL Robin, I see what you did there. Left the little detail about the LSA out. So you have an engine swap with bolt ons. Sounds bad ass. Are you the only one with an LSA camaro currently?
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:34 PM   #118
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Robin, Really???

Stock tranny rearend and halfshafts??? Manual right?


Stock rear end and half shafts, changed the tranny to a 4L80E.


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Old 08-03-2010, 01:34 PM   #119
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Stock rear end and half shafts, changed the tranny to a 4L80E.


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Old 08-03-2010, 01:38 PM   #120
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The best scenerio would be to build the Z28 with off the shelf CTS-V parts. Make it less money than the GT500. With the ability to mod the car to a 150 horsepower increase people will buy the car.

So what you don't have a warranty, too many people beating the crap out of their cars and expecting someone else to pick up the tab.

Those who want the warranty intact won't mod the cars.

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Old 08-03-2010, 01:39 PM   #121
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They will need to step up the power in the LSA if they want to hang with the GT500. It's all about power to weight numbers. When the math is done the GT 500 is quicker.

I think that with some cam and exhaust changes the LSA would close the gap. I also think that it would hold up very well. The idea is to keep the costs down so that the business case doesn't get blown out of whack. Lok at the Challanger, you can't give the SRT Challangers away.

The brakes from a CTS-V is a natural. No new tooling and it keeps the costs down.

Remember they are in business to make money, not build your dream car for a 20,000 loss LOL

Robin
Ahh finally, someone who agrees with me. 556hp is not going to do it. What we REALLY should keep an eye on is the 2012 CTSV, If they up the HP on the LSA it will probably show up on the CTS-V first.. So we should keep an eye out for LSA changes.
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:41 PM   #122
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god i hope they go with better tires after all the criticism the GT500 has gotten....... Doesn't the CTS-V get PS2 s?
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:43 PM   #123
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I am making 700 with bolt ons. Ran a best of 10.76 with all stock rear end components.



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Old 08-03-2010, 01:44 PM   #124
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LOL Robin, I see what you did there. Left the little detail about the LSA out. So you have an engine swap with bolt ons. Sounds bad ass. Are you the only one with an LSA camaro currently?
Haha, well fogive me, I thought that everyone knew that I was the LSA 2010 Camaro poster child

My posts come from actually having the engine in my Camaro that may end up in the Z28.

Since I heard the rumors we thought it would be cool to get one in a Camaro.

The automatic was an attempt to solve some of the problems involved with the high horsepower builds. The 6060 and the 6L80 leave a little bit to be desired when trying to make more power. At the time there were no gears available and the 4L80E allowed us to get the power to the ground without killing the trans or rear end.

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Old 08-03-2010, 01:46 PM   #125
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I see another Camaro entering our family. My husband's been waiting on this for so long.
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