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Old 08-07-2010, 12:17 AM   #86
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There are about a dozen users in these threads with direct experience working on projects similar to OnStar. Input from across the world says that the "Gen 9 hardware" meme is purely a marketing "excuse". No one can fathom a technical reason why the majority of features of this App cannot run on a 2010 Camaro.

Several people who (unlike those of us who have direct hardware and software design experience with the Verizon Cellular Module) defend the position of GM have so far parroted the "They say it needs Gen 9 hardware, so we KNOW that they are telling the truth" commentary.

I say the burden of proof lies with OnStar to get one of their masterminds here to explain to us why the Gen 8 hardware is incapable of this functionality.

I guarantee you they will never give an explanation because there is none.
I am one of those people that believes there is a perfectly good reason. Having worked directly with upper management for a couple major national and worldwide corporations I just don't believe they said "**** everyone who has a 2010 we are making this 2011 only."

I just don't, THERE IS a logical reason....
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Old 08-07-2010, 12:18 AM   #87
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well, then i guess you don't want the feature that badly then. All I can say then is, get a 2011.
Thanks that was a useless response.
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Old 08-07-2010, 12:19 AM   #88
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Ok, this I can accept. So give us pre-2011 folks an app that can do the other things...

GPS tracking to within 50 yards
sound the alarm/honk the horn
tell you if your tire pressure is low
Lock/Unlock your vehicle remotely

I would be happy with these app features. Anyone else? Can someone copy and paste this to the onstar facebook page. I'm sure most people would be happy with these features on a phone app.
I have an LS3 so my interface would look exactly like the interface for a 2011 LS3 Camaro... (No Remote Start).

I've been saying for quite some time that we know for a fact that our hardware RIGHT NOW supports a subset of the offered services and they should at LEAST give us the services we already have.

Of course one thing we're overlooking is maybe OnStar has some kind of "contract" like UAW or SEIU with the phone operators at OnStar Call Centers and if they were to add smart-phone capability to all their existing vehicles the call volume would drop and operators would be laid off and sit around collecting nearly full pay and benefits for doing nothing.
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Old 08-07-2010, 06:12 AM   #89
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Onstar currently can NOT stop nor start an engine.

They CAN currently disengage the starter so it won't start and they CAN reduce the flow of gas though the fuel pump to limit the speed of the car.

This NOT just a software issue, it is a hardware issue as well as the current hardware is NOT connected nor set up to do this. You can issue software updates all you like but until the hardware is physically connected to the devices the commends go to, the commends will do NOTHING.
This counter actually makes sense to me

But I still have this question in the back of my mine, can't they still use the code that is executed when we use our key fob?

But thanks for a valid counter-point and good info.
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Old 08-07-2010, 06:22 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Rogue Leader View Post
I am one of those people that believes there is a perfectly good reason. Having worked directly with upper management for a couple major national and worldwide corporations I just don't believe they said "**** everyone who has a 2010 we are making this 2011 only."

I just don't, THERE IS a logical reason....
I don't want to believe this either, however if no official (technologically sound) reason is given, then that is pretty much their position even if they didn't officially say it on the record.
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Old 08-07-2010, 11:18 AM   #91
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I don't want to believe this either, however if no official (technologically sound) reason is given, then that is pretty much their position even if they didn't officially say it on the record.
The fact of the matter is that their official spokespeople have given a response to inquiries that (from a technical standpoint) is completely illogical and even comes across as patronizing because it is completely devoid of any technical facts or evidence to back it up. People with technical experience doubt that the explanation given is true, and there was a management decision made to intentionally leave early adopters behind.

Either they purposely wanted to make people rush out and buy a newer model to get these features, or they don't have the money to pay for the software engineering that is needed to support us.

I think it's obvious where the development money now went: http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-chrys...-bailouts.html. This is just the kind of "in your face" actions that have everyone doubting their word.
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Old 08-07-2010, 12:13 PM   #92
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Either they purposely wanted to make people rush out and buy a newer model to get these features, or they don't have the money to pay for the software engineering that is needed to support us.
Until you know what the difference between the Gen 8 and Gen 9 hardware is, you don't know why it can't be supported.

Protip dude, not everybody is out to screw you over and there are legitimate reasons different hardware has different capabilities.
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Old 08-07-2010, 01:37 PM   #93
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Until you know what the difference between the Gen 8 and Gen 9 hardware is, you don't know why it can't be supported.

Protip dude, not everybody is out to screw you over and there are legitimate reasons different hardware has different capabilities.
Reality Check, dude:

Not everybody is out to screw us over, but statistically speaking a large number of people ARE.

Since you are an expert and obviously know more about this than the rest of us I would like you to enumerate the differences in the hardware for me in simple terms so that a dummy like me can understand them.
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Old 08-07-2010, 02:17 PM   #94
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Since you are an expert and obviously know more about this than the rest of us I would like you to enumerate the differences in the hardware for me in simple terms so that a dummy like me can understand them.
I don't know the differences, or I would tell you, but it could be something as simple as increasing the number of channels available or not as simple as the way it is interfaced into the bus.

I seriously feel sorry for you if you think a large number of people are out to screw you over.
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Old 08-07-2010, 02:22 PM   #95
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Old 08-07-2010, 05:41 PM   #96
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What was that? Your message was garbled. I think your dial-up connection is bad. Try switching to 1200 baud or try calling in on your Tracfone.

mannn that was lame. lol
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Old 08-08-2010, 12:46 AM   #97
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I don't know the differences, or I would tell you, but it could be something as simple as increasing the number of channels available or not as simple as the way it is interfaced into the bus.

It doesn't sound like you work with these types of systems for a living, so I can overlook your naive belief in the excuses being put forth regarding hardware. This sytem runs software using the hardware, and anyone who creates software knows that there are an infinite number of ways that software can be created to make up for deficient hardware.

Do you REALLY think that the TI-84 calculator was designed to be able to play "DOOM"? Clever people modified the software to work on a lowly graphing calculator. Clearly, this is something the hardware was never designed to do. Yet it does it reasonably well.

I mention this because it flies in the face of the "needs hardware to work" argument. I still believe that it works with our cars but they have decided not to support them for some reason.

Quote:
I seriously feel sorry for you if you think a large number of people are out to screw you over.
Why do you feel sorry for me because I'm paying attention? I feel sorry for people who haven't figured out how badly they are being screwed each and every day (and their kids and grandkids are getting screwed before they are even born!)
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Old 08-08-2010, 01:15 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
There are about a dozen users in these threads with direct experience working on projects similar to OnStar. Input from across the world says that the "Gen 9 hardware" meme is purely a marketing "excuse". No one can fathom a technical reason why the majority of features of this App cannot run on a 2010 Camaro.

Several people who (unlike those of us who have direct hardware and software design experience with the Verizon Cellular Module) defend the position of GM have so far parroted the "They say it needs Gen 9 hardware, so we KNOW that they are telling the truth" commentary.

I say the burden of proof lies with OnStar to get one of their masterminds here to explain to us why the Gen 8 hardware is incapable of this functionality.

I guarantee you they will never give an explanation because there is none.
OnStar doesnt owe you proof of anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
It doesn't sound like you work with these types of systems for a living, so I can overlook your naive belief in the excuses being put forth regarding hardware. This sytem runs software using the hardware, and anyone who creates software knows that there are an infinite number of ways that software can be created to make up for deficient hardware.

Do you REALLY think that the TI-84 calculator was designed to be able to play "DOOM"? Clever people modified the software to work on a lowly graphing calculator. Clearly, this is something the hardware was never designed to do. Yet it does it reasonably well.

I mention this because it flies in the face of the "needs hardware to work" argument. I still believe that it works with our cars but they have decided not to support them for some reason.



Why do you feel sorry for me because I'm paying attention? I feel sorry for people who haven't figured out how badly they are being screwed each and every day (and their kids and grandkids are getting screwed before they are even born!)


By your example, I should be able to dig up a TI-84 and use it to create adn render a Pixar like movie scene, simply by writing a program....

but wait! there are.... GASP!!! HARDWARE LIMITATIONS! can't be done!
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Old 08-08-2010, 06:50 AM   #99
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I think we are getting upset too soon,
I am pretty sure that this system will be able to be adapted to the 2010 models if not directly by GM/onstar some clever guy will figure out what needs to be done and do it,
but I have a feeling that this is the same song that was being sung about installing the 4 gauge pack on LS, 1LT AND 1SS that it was going to need some special programing by the dealer to make them work and what happen? some guy plug them in and they worked no programing needed.
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:44 AM   #100
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..........

Do you REALLY think that the TI-84 calculator was designed to be able to play "DOOM"? Clever people modified the software to work on a lowly graphing calculator. Clearly, this is something the hardware was never designed to do. Yet it does it reasonably well.

...........

I just have to jump on this comment. First off the DOOM software was NOT modified to play on a TI-84, someone went and wrote a whole new program mimicking DOOM on the TI-84 OS. Not only that it runs like complete shit. Its barely playable. I spent all my college years playing games like that on my TI-84 and TI-92. They did work and they were better than nothing, but they were poor shells of their namesake games. So if you are using this to defend your position you have no defense.
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Old 08-08-2010, 10:13 AM   #101
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OnStar doesnt owe you proof of anything.





By your example, I should be able to dig up a TI-84 and use it to create adn render a Pixar like movie scene, simply by writing a program....

but wait! there are.... GASP!!! HARDWARE LIMITATIONS! can't be done!
The problem with YOUR argument is that you are trying to compare two things with such a wide disparity between them that the concept is not practical.

What we're talking about here is where two closely related pieces of hardware can be matched. Not a calculator doing the work of a render farm and HD monitor.

Stick to realistic arguments.
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Old 08-08-2010, 10:20 AM   #102
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I just have to jump on this comment. First off the DOOM software was NOT modified to play on a TI-84, someone went and wrote a whole new program mimicking DOOM on the TI-84 OS. Not only that it runs like complete shit. Its barely playable. I spent all my college years playing games like that on my TI-84 and TI-92. They did work and they were better than nothing, but they were poor shells of their namesake games. So if you are using this to defend your position you have no defense.
Who cares if the software was modified or scratch written. The point is that it was written, and it worked. Your review of the "playability" doesn't change the fact it was done and it did work.

You said the magic words: "Better than nothing."

I would rather have an OnStar app that let me do some things rather than having NOTHING.

There's really only one or two things about the app inportant to me: The ability to lock the doors if I think I may have forgotten and the ability to locate the car with GPS in case it gets stolen or I can't find it in a big parking lot. Those features are well within the capabilities of the hardware.

If they have a hardware issue like insufficient RAM or no room left in the flash for the code then they can dump OnStar features I never use to make space for the smartphone app code. (I never use Turn-By-Turn, which they can remove and free up plenty of hardware resources to do smartphone support)
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